Wright writes.....

[APOLLO]

These are useful for the non DCC modeller !!!!

 

 

 

 

Brit15 

[John Besley]

On Exhill Works I am gradually going over to DCC with sound with a couple of locos first, then once I set these up will convert the track etc to DCC.

 

I  have also set up a separate ambient background sound system comprising bird sound along with workshop sounds in the background, angle grinder, hammers etc. And the odd distant passing car, these play through a couple of speakers  placed each end of the layout, still early days but you get the idea

[TrevorP1]

1 hour ago, John Besley said:

On Exhill Works I am gradually going over to DCC with sound with a couple of locos first, then once I set these up will convert the track etc to DCC.

 

I  have also set up a separate ambient background sound system comprising bird sound along with workshop sounds in the background, angle grinder, hammers etc. And the odd distant passing car, these play through a couple of speakers  placed each end of the layout, still early days but you get the idea

 

I very much like the idea of ambient sound. I find a playlist of period music pleasing now and again. (The 'Housewives Choice' theme for anyone in the 50s or 60s 😄 ? ). A period newsreel would also set the scene but I've yet to find one.

[LNER4479]

22 hours ago, APOLLO said:

Model locomotive sound doesn't hack it for me, especially steam

 

22 hours ago, 4630 said:

I just don’t find models fitted with sound - be it steam, diesel or electric locomotives - sufficiently convincing.

I wouldn't normally get involved in such a discussion, as I am resolutely in the Dinosaur Control camp. However, I'm asking for a friend ...

 

Irrespective of pitch / tone considerations, two fundamentals need to be met for steam sound to even start to be realistic:

1) The 'chuff' to accelerate in time with the loco (not go up in discontinuous steps), with the correct chuffs to the revolution (4 per rev for a 2/4 cyl. loco; and 6 per rev for a 3 cyl. loco)

2) The 'chuffs' to stop altogether when the locomotive is slowing to a stand. This should NOT require the input of the operator(!) - the system should sense the load on the motor (or equivalent) and adjust the sound accordingly.

 

Are there any steam sound systems out there that achieve both of these? I might have heard No.1 but not - to date - No.2.

 

As I say - asking for a friend.

 

(FWIW, we do have two sound diseasels on Shap - that work on DC - and it's reasonably acceptable)

Edited March 2 by LNER4479

[PupCam]

1 hour ago, TrevorP1 said:

 

I very much like the idea of ambient sound. I find a playlist of period music pleasing now and again. (The 'Housewives Choice' theme for anyone in the 50s or 60s 😄 ? ). A period newsreel would also set the scene but I've yet to find one.

 

That's taken me back to when I was small young!

 

 

 

There's even a bit of dH Dragon Rapide action  in the Newsreel 😀  

 

Being an old "Hatfield Boy"  that's a real bonus!

 

 

[Barry O]

1 hour ago, LNER4479 said:

 

I wouldn't normally get involved in such a discussion, as I am resolutely in the Dinosaur Control camp. However, I'm asking for a friend ...

 

Irrespective of pitch / tone considerations, two fundamentals need to be met for steam sound to even start to be realistic:

1) The 'chuff' to accelerate in time with the loco (not go up in discontinuous steps), with the correct chuffs to the revolution (4 per rev for a 2/4 cyl. loco; and 6 per rev for a 3 cyl. loco)

2) The 'chuffs' to stop altogether when the locomotive is slowing to a stand. This should NOT require the input of the operator(!) - the system should sense that the load on the motor (or equivalent) and adjust the sound accordingly.

 

Are there any steam sound systems out there that achieve both of these? I might have heard No.1 but not - to date - No.2.

 

As I say - asking for a friend.

 

(FWIW, we do have two sound diseasels on Shap - that work on DC - and it's reasonably acceptable)

Yep 2 can be achieved relatively easily. Most of the locos for Carlisle do this.

 

The English Electric Type 4 and Brush type 4 on Shap are both fitted with legomanbiffo sounds. Both work well.. listening to them notching back as they get to the summit sounds good to me.

 

@1471SirFrederickBanbury.. pick a really hard to machine metal.. Tungsten.. its a so and so to machine..

 

Baz

[John Besley]

1 hour ago, LNER4479 said:

 

I wouldn't normally get involved in such a discussion, as I am resolutely in the Dinosaur Control camp. However, I'm asking for a friend ...

 

Irrespective of pitch / tone considerations, two fundamentals need to be met for steam sound to even start to be realistic:

1) The 'chuff' to accelerate in time with the loco (not go up in discontinuous steps), with the correct chuffs to the revolution (4 per rev for a 2/4 cyl. loco; and 6 per rev for a 3 cyl. loco)

2) The 'chuffs' to stop altogether when the locomotive is slowing to a stand. This should NOT require the input of the operator(!) - the system should sense that the load on the motor (or equivalent) and adjust the sound accordingly.

 

Are there any steam sound systems out there that achieve both of these? I might have heard No.1 but not - to date - No.2.

 

As I say - asking for a friend.

 

(FWIW, we do have two sound diseasels on Shap - that work on DC - and it's reasonably acceptable)

 

I do agree with the above and before I spend a hand full of the folding stuff on my steam engine - the others are diesel so different set ups, would want it so the exhaust shuts off when coasting, on my loco I'd want a 2 cylinder 0-8-0 due to the wheel diameter so an 8F would do but want a Bulleid whistle,

 

For my own amusement i am putting together a video of Exhill and for the opening and closing credits have created a sound clip of Manston pulling away from Corfe Castle but added in a couple of nice long whistles.

 

Anyone who has been behind one will know the bit I've used is just as she picks up at the top of the climb before dropping down to Harmens Cross while my clip lasts 30 seconds I could listen to it on a loop for some time.... maybe I am sad!

[lezz01]

33 minutes ago, John Besley said:

 

I do agree with the above and before I spend a hand full of the folding stuff on my steam engine - the others are diesel so different set ups, would want it so the exhaust shuts off when coasting, on my loco I'd want a 2 cylinder 0-8-0 due to the wheel diameter so an 8F would do but want a Bulleid whistle,

 

For my own amusement i am putting together a video of Exhill and for the opening and closing credits have created a sound clip of Manston pulling away from Corfe Castle but added in a couple of nice long whistles.

 

Anyone who has been behind one will know the bit I've used is just as she picks up at the top of the climb before dropping down to Harmens Cross while my clip lasts 30 seconds I could listen to it on a loop for some time.... maybe I am sad!

Not at all John. I have a video of various locos banking on the Lickey and I could watch it or just listen to it all day long.

Regards Lez.

[CF MRC]

I haven’t posted on WW for a while, but at least I have been doing a bit of 4mm scale modelling for the MRC’s new EM docklands lauout,  ‘Orchard Wharf’.  

With modern ‘in-house’ laser cutting technology and 3DP components from Modelu, it is quite remarkably easy to make bespoke kit type buildings, which previously would have been a major effort. 
 
Do not fear though, I have stayed true to the faith and continued work on York Road tube station (2mm of course). The model is awaiting a pile of sand. 

It will be good to have the youngsters driving the tube train at Ally Pally, where this will  be on display in diorama form. 

Having cleared the workbench of 4mm office blocks, I will be able to return to the Skittle Alley hopefully in time for Missenden Abbey next weekend. 
 

Tim

 

 

Edited March 2 by CF MRC

[Iain.d]

Following the completion of the two mcgeordie / Ian MacDonald GW Siphons, I have been building one of his LNER BZ 6 wheel NPCCS kits - another well designed, easy to put together project. For the main parts it’s a mix of brass and nickel silver, whitemetal fittings and an extruded aluminium roof. The only thing the builder needs to provide are wheels.

 

The chassis is reasonably complex, but built in steps and following the instructions (pretty much a must for some bits) it soon comes together. I like the design of the Cleminson style design to control the movement of the centre axle and the axle boxes (there being no cast type available) are a really novel design of layered brass. They certainly look the part. I managed to solder the layers the wrong way round on one (ironically the last one of the six!) of them; I couldn’t get it to fit the ‘W’ iron and it took me ages to work out what I had done wrong! A real ‘doh’ moment!

 

 

The main components – the instructions suggest gluing the roof on, but I like them to be detachable, so I drilled the roof for a 12BA bolt and then partway drilled in with a 2mm bit, then filed down and curved the head of the bolt until it sat in the drilled 2mm hole. It's secured on the underside of the roof with a nut, and I then filled the slight recess on the roof with filler. A piece of brass offcut with a hole in the right place, is soldered to the centre partition. The rain strips are secured with superglue. I’m not a fan of superglue, even at the best of times, so we’ll see how we go with these. If they fall off, I’ll resort to tape.

 

 

And the final test build. I’ll add the handrails and window bars after painting. The screw couplings are a hotchpotch of bits: Roxey hooks, Rumney links and 14BA nuts and bolts for the screw part.

 

 

Although not common on the Somerset & Dorset line, this vehicle will be painted in lined BR maroon and numbered E70649E, as per the Rev John Sutters photograph at Templecombe. But that won’t happen until I’ve finished off the LBSCR Five Compartment Saloon First, which is close to being finished.

 

Kind regards,

 

Iain

[Mark Laidlay]

13 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

 

Are there any steam sound systems out there that achieve both of these? I might have heard No.1 but not - to date - No.2.

 

As I say - asking for a friend.

 

(FWIW, we do have two sound diseasels on Shap - that work on DC - and it's reasonably acceptable)

Yes, even the Hornby P2 does a good job drifting to a stop

 

Mark in Melbourne

[Dunsignalling]

3 hours ago, Iain.d said:

Following the completion of the two mcgeordie / Ian MacDonald GW Siphons, I have been building one of his LNER BZ 6 wheel NPCCS kits - another well designed, easy to put together project. For the main parts it’s a mix of brass and nickel silver, whitemetal fittings and an extruded aluminium roof. The only thing the builder needs to provide are wheels.

 

The chassis is reasonably complex, but built in steps and following the instructions (pretty much a must for some bits) it soon comes together. I like the design of the Cleminson style design to control the movement of the centre axle and the axle boxes (there being no cast type available) are a really novel design of layered brass. They certainly look the part. I managed to solder the layers the wrong way round on one (ironically the last one of the six!) of them; I couldn’t get it to fit the ‘W’ iron and it took me ages to work out what I had done wrong! A real ‘doh’ moment!

 

 

The main components – the instructions suggest gluing the roof on, but I like them to be detachable, so I drilled the roof for a 12BA bolt and then partway drilled in with a 2mm bit, then filed down and curved the head of the bolt until it sat in the drilled 2mm hole. It's secured on the underside of the roof with a nut, and I then filled the slight recess on the roof with filler. A piece of brass offcut with a hole in the right place, is soldered to the centre partition. The rain strips are secured with superglue. I’m not a fan of superglue, even at the best of times, so we’ll see how we go with these. If they fall off, I’ll resort to tape.

 

 

And the final test build. I’ll add the handrails and window bars after painting. The screw couplings are a hotchpotch of bits: Roxey hooks, Rumney links and 14BA nuts and bolts for the screw part.

 

 

Although not common on the Somerset & Dorset line, this vehicle will be painted in lined BR maroon and numbered E70649E, as per the Rev John Sutters photograph at Templecombe. But that won’t happen until I’ve finished off the LBSCR Five Compartment Saloon First, which is close to being finished.

 

Kind regards,

 

Iain

 

Must make a start on mine....

 

If you glue roofs on with Copydex, they'll stay put as long as you want, but can be taken off if you need. 

 

John

Edited March 3 by Dunsignalling

[St Enodoc]

16 hours ago, APOLLO said:

 

That 0-8-0(?) won't get far if that's where the coal is in the tender...

[St Enodoc]

14 hours ago, TrevorP1 said:

 

I very much like the idea of ambient sound. I find a playlist of period music pleasing now and again. (The 'Housewives Choice' theme for anyone in the 50s or 60s 😄 ? ). A period newsreel would also set the scene but I've yet to find one.

Our family was in a "Look at Life" programme in 1964 or 1965, just outside your period. We were queueing for the hovercraft to take us from Ryde to Portsmouth.

[LNER4479]

2 hours ago, Mark Laidlay said:

Yes, even the Hornby P2 does a good job drifting to a stop

That's not been my (admittedly very limited) experience in the past. Sounds(!) like it's improving all the time then. It was ever thus for evolving technology...

[Michael Edge]

2 hours ago, Mark Laidlay said:

Yes, even the Hornby P2 does a good job drifting to a stop

 

Mark in Melbourne

If you need to stop locos chuffing to a standstill (which always sounds ridiculous) all you need to do is alter the deceleration delay until it stops - somewhere between 5 and 10 is usually enough for this. Incidentally acceleration delay has no place in steam locos - when you open the regulator steam goes straight to the cylinders and the loco moves.

[New Haven Neil]

17 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

Irrespective of pitch / tone considerations, two fundamentals need to be met for steam sound to even start to be realistic:

1) The 'chuff' to accelerate in time with the loco (not go up in discontinuous steps), with the correct chuffs to the revolution (4 per rev for a 2/4 cyl. loco; and 6 per rev for a 3 cyl. loco)

2) The 'chuffs' to stop altogether when the locomotive is slowing to a stand. This should NOT require the input of the operator(!) - the system should sense the load on the motor (or equivalent) and adjust the sound accordingly.

 

I have a Zimo decoder fitted GW Prairie (sorry!) which does exactly those things - and an 08 that does it in a diesel-y way too.  So it is all about the skill of the programmer, making the sound project.  Coastal DCC and Digitrains respectively!

[Willie Whizz]

8 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

 

Must make a start on mine....

 

If you glue roofs on with Copydex, they'll stay put as long as you want, but can be taken off if you need. 

 

John

That may just be what is known as a “Lightbulb Moment”.
 

My fear in internally detailing any carriage is always that something’ ‘detaches’ and cannot be accessed to fix without damaging the roof or contrail and/or paintwork.

Thanks, I will try that!

[Keith Turbutt]

Slightly OT, but while on the subject of sounds, one memorable occasion quite a few years ago was at a show in Sudbury, Suffolk. Our club, Witham, had been invited to bring along our layout to the show which was held in a de-concecrated church right in the centre of the town used for community purposes. Although de-concecrated the organ was still working and one of the traders at the show happened to be an organist. While 'playing trains' we were treated to a number of stirring tunes on the organ. As already said, a very memorable occasion.

[cctransuk]

1 hour ago, Willie Whizz said:

That may just be what is known as a “Lightbulb Moment”.
 

My fear in internally detailing any carriage is always that something’ ‘detaches’ and cannot be accessed to fix without damaging the roof or contrail and/or paintwork.

Thanks, I will try that!

 

I have found it quite easy to arrange my kitbuilt coaches such that the body is detachable from the chassis.

 

Three long screws up through the floor into a false ceiling, as Tri-ang did many moons ago.

 

CJI.

[lezz01]

8 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

I have found it quite easy to arrange my kitbuilt coaches such that the body is detachable from the chassis.

 

Three long screws up through the floor into a false ceiling, as Tri-ang did many moons ago.

 

CJI.

I go with small magnets myself. Fix a couple of crossmembers across the coach interior with a bit of steel fixed to it and a couple of magnets in the roof packed out so they are level with the top of the steel in the crossmembers. Take the roof off whenever you like, no muss, no fuss, no tools needed and no screws to lose.

Regards Lez.   

[Dunsignalling]

39 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

I have found it quite easy to arrange my kitbuilt coaches such that the body is detachable from the chassis.

 

Three long screws up through the floor into a false ceiling, as Tri-ang did many moons ago.

 

CJI.

I always used a version of that with Kirk coaches because I assembled the body and roof as a unit, rather than as per the instructions, so as to get the best possible fit between sides and roof.

 

I also built up the interior directly on the floor, rather than adding it separately.

 

The two units were joined by gluing a thick plastic block centrally inside the roof, tapped 8BA with a length of studding passing through the floor. By having nuts and washers both above and below the floor, any possible bowing of the latter, occasionally consequent upon my assembly method, can readily be corrected.

 

I started using the Copydex method when flush glazing Lima CCTs and GUVs, where the use of the original glazing to attach the roof was lost.

 

John

 

[Dunsignalling]

1 hour ago, lezz01 said:

I go with small magnets myself. Fix a couple of crossmembers across the coach interior with a bit of steel fixed to it and a couple of magnets in the roof packed out so they are level with the top of the steel in the crossmembers. Take the roof off whenever you like, no muss, no fuss, no tools needed and no screws to lose.

Regards Lez.   

 

The methods described by we two Oldies predate the ready availability of miniature rare earth magnets by some decades! 😉

 

[cctransuk]

17 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

 

The methods described by we two Oldies predate the ready availability of miniature rare earth magnets by some decades! 😉

 

 

Indeed it does - I was quite happy to copy Tri-ang when Kirk kits came along.

 

I adapted the method for my Kitmaster Blue Pullman, wherby the roof is detachable from separate body / chassis and interior assemblies. The false ceiling greatly stabilised the flimsy, flexible roof moulding, and created a ledge which supported the equally flexible sides.

 

In both cases, the assembled bodies are remarkably rigid and robust.

 

CJI.

[Willie Whizz]

2 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

I have found it quite easy to arrange my kitbuilt coaches such that the body is detachable from the chassis.

 

Three long screws up through the floor into a false ceiling, as Tri-ang did many moons ago.

 

CJI.

Yes, I have used that method before, but I find the screws are too visually intrusive for comfort, even if painted, except in a brake-end. And getting the nuts in the false ceiling to stay securely fixed can be a challenge in itself.