Wright writes.....

[MikeTrice]

9 hours ago, ArthurK said:

Some pages back there was a discussion about splashers on the V2. I have just unearthed the photos I took in 1974 when it visited Carnforth....

 

A couple of views from underneath:

 

[Jol Wilkinson]

5 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

I don't mind cameos on layouts, Archie; as long as they're not overdone.

 

One layout I've seen recently, featured a burning building - with real smoke, which seemed to amuse the kids. Though buildings can and do catch fire (and this one really was ablaze!), the area is usually cordoned off, and any adjacent railway temporarily closed. There was a busy station just opposite the fire, yet trains still ran and none of the waiting passengers even turned to look at the excitement just behind them. 

 

The layout won the 'most-entertaining' prize at a show (at which I was a judge), which must say something. However, with regard to observation of the prototype (of which 'drum' I'm always banging), the builders must have all lost their specs! 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Regrettably they are far too often overdone, but then I believe that a model railway should be more about the railway and less about how much you can cram into the model. 

 

Layouts at shows are often judged on their entertainment/amusement value, which often has less to do with the modelling of the railway, but more to do with the maximum amount of "stuff" you can fit onto the baseboards to attract the eye of the viewer.  A bit like regarding East Tenders or Corporation Street as a realistic representation of family life (at least as far as I am aware).

 

Of course, I may in a minority of one here, so I'll just keep taking the pills.

 

Jol

[Mallard60022]

15 hours ago, 90164 said:

Nothing to do with the Catholic way (or the Protestant way. Burning at the stake was the proscribed punishment for heretics, of any description. So Henty VIII had heretics burnt. Being hung, drawn annd quartered was the punishment for traitors. The Catholic priests executed in the reign of Elizabeth were regarded as traitors, as owing their allegiances to a foreign power (the Pope).

Apologies for asking, but is it not hanged, drawn and quartered? I ask as I was told this many years ago by some teacher that told me that pictures are hung and people are hanged? Was he correct?

Phil

[Mallard60022]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

I don't mind cameos on layouts, Archie; as long as they're not overdone.

 

One layout I've seen recently, featured a burning building - with real smoke, which seemed to amuse the kids. Though buildings can and do catch fire (and this one really was ablaze!), the area is usually cordoned off, and any adjacent railway temporarily closed. There was a busy station just opposite the fire, yet trains still ran and none of the waiting passengers even turned to look at the excitement just behind them. 

 

The layout won the 'most-entertaining' prize at a show (at which I was a judge), which must say something. However, with regard to observation of the prototype (of which 'drum' I'm always banging), the builders must have all lost their specs! 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Good morning Tony and all the 'gang'.  I think the introduction of realistic cameo scenes, as at Pendon and those in many other grand model railways, are wonderful as they are very much part of the scenic picture through which the railway ambles. The 'entertainment craze' that has infiltrated the exhibition scene is, I believe, a bit of an imitation of the style of model railway seen on the Continent where all sorts of elaborate events always seem to have been included. I am sorry but I find the simplicity of Pompoule (spelling?)  is what I consider to be a great 'Continental' model railway and again, of course, there are many others.

ATB

Phil

Edited August 9, 2019 by Mallard60022
Typicoil spellin errers.

[johnarcher]

20 minutes ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

Regrettably they are far too often overdone, but then I believe that a model railway should be more about the railway and less about how much you can cram into the model. 

 

Layouts at shows are often judged on their entertainment/amusement value, which often has less to do with the modelling of the railway, but more to do with the maximum amount of "stuff" you can fit onto the baseboards to attract the eye of the viewer.  A bit like regarding East Tenders or Corporation Street as a realistic representation of family life (at least as far as I am aware).

 

Of course, I may in a minority of one here, so I'll just keep taking the pills.

 

Jol

I clicked agree with that (because I do!), but I'd add that I think it's a good comment with reference to the whole scene, not just the railway. The expanse of fields around (eg) Petherick I think is far more convincing than any number of weddings, foxhunts or catastrophes. Personally I also find that such scenes often fall into the eternal flag-waving guard trap -something that should be moving but isn't, while the trains do.

I'm sure Manxcat's chatting clergy was a good idea.

[Tony Wright]

50 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

Apologies for asking, but is it not hanged, drawn and quartered? I ask as I was told this many years ago by some teacher that told me that pictures are hung and people are hanged? Was he correct?

Phil

He was, Phil.

 

Speaking of things hanging (down), my thanks must go to Jamie Guest for his sending me the screw shackles for that O Gauge van featured recently. I'm (even more) in your debt, Jamie. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited August 9, 2019 by Tony Wright
typo error

[Barry Ten]

Look forward to saying hello at Railwells, Tony.

 

Will any other Wright Writes contributors be there over the weekend?

[johnarcher]

28 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

Apologies for asking, but is it not hanged, drawn and quartered? I ask as I was told this many years ago by some teacher that told me that pictures are hung and people are hanged? Was he correct?

Phil

I think (could be wrong) that it is hanged if the unfortunate victim is hanged until dead - ie the hanging is the manner of execution.

Whereas when one is hung, drawn and quartered, one is only hung for a little while, and cut down while still alive as at that stage the unpleasant process has only just begun.

[Joseph_Pestell]

8 minutes ago, Barry Ten said:

Look forward to saying hello at Railwells, Tony.

 

Will any other Wright Writes contributors be there over the weekend?

 

Hoping to be there on Sunday, although have car problems at the moment.

[Tony Wright]

6 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

Good morning Tony and all the 'gang'.  I think the introduction of realistic cameo scenes, as at Pendon and those in many other grand model railways, are wonderful as they are very much part of the scenic picture through which the railway ambles. The 'entertainment craze' that has infiltrated the exhibition scene is, I believe, a bit of an imitation if the style of model railway seen on the Continent where all sorts of elaborate events always seems to have been included. I am sorry but I find the simplicity of Pompoule (spelling?)  is what I consider to be a great 'Continental' model railway and again, of course, there are many others.

ATB

Phil

Thanks Phil,

 

In fairness, with regard to 'general' exhibitions, then I think some 'entertainment' features might be acceptable, especially for kids. A great layout (without all the add-ons), like Gordon and Maggie Gravett's Pempoul (I don't know if this spelling is correct, either) will always entertain me, because I can admire the realism and wonderful craftsmanship. I'd also like to think that kids might admire the likes of it, too.

 

I've mentioned before, it's my immense privilege to be invited as a judge at several shows. One large one in particular has both what might call the 'high-end' layouts and the train set ones (with many in between). Could it be to my shame that I give the train set layouts not even a first glance, let alone a second? Were it up to me, I'd have them exhibiting the most-realistic of fires, and I'd consider them most-useful on one night of the year - November the 5th! Yet, on what one might call the 'public' day of the show (the Sunday) these (one hopes, highly-combustible) creations are four/five deep in spectators. Families, mums, dads, and loads of little children pointing their fingers in excitement! Who can deny then, that such layouts have their place at shows? The situation certainly pricks my own pomposity - as it should. The show is justifiably popular, and it's one I look forward to each year. 

 

Years ago, when the Manchester Show was regarded as one of the four/five must-see exhibitions of the year (it could still be), Jack Dugdale used to exhibit his 'Ortogo' railways. These featured rabbits leaping in and out of burrows by the lineside, a ganger just making his refuge before he was clouted by a train , and all manner of other cliches (there might even have been a bus on a bridge!). They were always popular, and they also featured in the contemporary press. 

 

Would I ever build a layout aimed at entertaining kids? Of course not, but I must say that those of more tender years are far better at operating Little Bytham than I am. Perhaps I should hire them from their grandparents (it's usually the granddads who bring them round). In the same way that all new electronic gadgets should come with a free grandchild, because they're the only ones who can understand them! 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[grahame]

36 minutes ago, johnarcher said:

I clicked agree with that (because I do!), but I'd add that I think it's a good comment with reference to the whole scene, not just the railway.

 

Yes, I agree with that. For me it is seeing the railway in a natural and realistic landscape/environment that makes a top class model railway layout.

 

And with regards to cameos I feel they tend to form in to two main camps;

1. The unusual, spectacular and extreme - basically things that don't happen on a regular repeated basis in real life (especially not in the same location/area) like car crashes, burning buildings (both of those usually surrounded by vehicles with over-bright flashing lights on layouts), pub fights spilling out on to the street and such like but which often attract a crowd. Their use it not a reflection on the period or atmosphere that the layout is trying to create but an effort to grab attention. These are the cameos that I tend to eschew and the repeated use of them makes them cliched and hackneyed.
2. The regular, humdrum and observation of real life going about it's business. Now this is where cameos get my interest (and vote) but far to often many layouts tend to fail to 'pull it off'. And end up resorting to the first category (IMO).

The other thing to consider is that some cameos are only appropriate for particular periods or locations. For example boarded up shops reflect the prosperity of the area and periods of economic down turn, cardboard cities and beggars (with dogs) sitting on the pavements seems to be a relatively modern phenomenon, and with the advent of spin and tumble driers you don't see women pegging out washing on clothes lines much now. But each of those 'cameos' can be effective understated scenes in an appropriate location and era. 

 

G 

Edited August 9, 2019 by grahame

[jamie92208]

25 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

He was, Phil.

 

Speaking of things hanging (down), my thank must go to Jamie Guest for his sending me the screw shackles for that O Gauge van featured recently. I'm (even more) in your debt, Jamie. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Nice to see that La Poste has done it's stuff.   It seems to take about 2 weeks for post to arrive from the UK but it can be quite fast going back the other way.  2 days has been known.   Of such things are made the mysteries of life. I look forward to seeing a picture of the van.

 

Jamie

[jamie92208]

2 minutes ago, grahame said:

 with the advent of spin and tumble driers you don't see women pegging out washing of clothes lines much now. But each of those 'cameos' can be effective understated scenes in an appropriate location and era. 

 

G 

We had a washing line on Long Preston, in the station garden next to the platform.   When we exhibited it in Long Preston Village Hall a signalman's daughter spent a long time looking at the model so I asked her what was wrong.   Her reply, in broad dales speak, was "We'd never ave ung t' washin thier. It would' uve been in't backyard".   It was one of many things that made it a fabulous weekend for us.     Ironically the offending line of washing is still there in the station garden on permanent display in the village hall.

 

Jamie

[grahame]

2 minutes ago, jamie92208 said:

We had a washing line on Long Preston, in the station garden next to the platform.   When we exhibited it in Long Preston Village Hall a signalman's daughter spent a long time looking at the model so I asked her what was wrong.   Her reply, in broad dales speak, was "We'd never ave ung t' washin thier. It would' uve been in't backyard".   It was one of many things that made it a fabulous weekend for us.    

 

I certainly wouldn't have hung out washing near a steam railway line. All those smuts, soot and muck that would have got on it.

;-)

G

[jamie92208]

2 minutes ago, grahame said:

 

I certainly wouldn't have hung out washing near a steam railway line. All those smuts, soot and muck that would have got on it.

;-)

G

Yes I agree, I well remember being below Settle Station one morning in my dim and distant yoof.  There is a terrace of houses below the retaining wall for the down platform.   One householder was berating the clag raining down on her washing from an 8F that was making heavy weather of restarting a northbound freight after a water stop.

 

Jamie

[RLBH]

1 hour ago, grahame said:

• The unusual, spectacular and extreme - basically things that don't happen on a regular repeated basis in real life (especially not in the same location/area) like car crashes, burning buildings (both of those usually surrounded by vehicles with over-bright flashing lights on layouts), pub fights spilling out on to the street and such like but which often attract a crowd. Their use it not a reflection on the period or atmosphere that the layout is trying to create but an effort to grab attention. These are the cameos that I tend to eschew and the repeated use of them makes them cliched and hackneyed.

My view on these is that one can allow one such event on a 'serious' layout. Maybe a second if it's large. Unusual, spectacular and extreme events do happen, some of them on a daily basis - a pub fight on a bucolic 1930s GWR branch line might be out of place, while it might be amiss not to have on a 1970s urban layout.

 

Above all, at an exhibition the operator should not point out, in great detail, every single cameo on the layout, whether mundane or exceptional. This happened to me at one exhibition, and afterwards I was totally unable to enjoy it! The best ones I've seen, at least in terms of engaging families, have tended to be along the lines of 'there are X number of Y animal on this layout, how many can you find?'

 

If, of course, the layout is being built at home for personal entertainment and nothing else, feel free to do whatever you like. A variation of Rule One seems applicable here.

[Barry Ten]

I've got some moving swans on my layout. It's a bit of a gimmick but they don't catch the eye unduly and it's quite fun to see them going about

their business while I get on with operating. This scene has changed quite a bit since I made this video but the swans remain.

 

 

 

[Compound2632]

2 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

Apologies for asking, but is it not hanged, drawn and quartered? I ask as I was told this many years ago by some teacher that told me that pictures are hung and people are hanged? Was he correct?

Phil

 

Maybe so, but at the butchers', a side of meat is hung - it was a form of butchery after all.  

[Mallard60022]

7 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Maybe so, but at the butchers', a side of meat is hung - it was a form of butchery after all.  

...and that supports the hanged until dead comment earlier, as a side of meat is dead (hopefully)!

P

[Coach bogie]

I spent forever and a day installing a working level crossing. It did not take long for it to become a bit of a gimmick. I cannot remember the last time I actually used it. Luckily many crossings stayed shut to the road in the 1930's as there was so little road traffic.

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

Mike Wiltshire

[Barry Ten]

12 minutes ago, Coach bogie said:

I spent forever and a day installing a working level crossing. It did not take long for it to become a bit of a gimmick. I cannot remember the last time I actually used it. Luckily many crossings stayed shut to the road in the 1930's as there was so little road traffic.

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

Similar experience here. My crossing is working but I don't operate it all that often. It's nice to show off, but if I'm running two trains, it would be opening and closing every few seconds which would be a bit daft. It's not protected against collisions, either, so there's always the risk of forgetting to close it. That's happened once or twice without too much damage but it's not recommended.

[grahame]

1 hour ago, Barry Ten said:

I've got some moving swans on my layout. It's a bit of a gimmick but they don't catch the eye unduly and it's quite fun to see them going about

their business while I get on with operating. This scene has changed quite a bit since I made this video but the swans remain.

 

 

 

 

For moving swans check out the famous clockwork automata silver swan at the Bowes museum, Barnard Castle. Built in 1742 it eventually catches a fish and eats it:

 

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=silver+swan+at+barnards+castle&view=detail&mid=47E45371942B91161D7547E45371942B91161D75&FORM=VIRE

 

And the museum is very interesting as well as looking like a French chateau

 

 

 

G

[Porcy Mane]

13 hours ago, ArthurK said:

Some pages back there was a discussion about splashers on the V2. I have just unearthed the photos I took in 1974 when it visited Carnforth. 

 

As ever Aurthur, excellent photograph of the type only a modeller would think of taking.

 

I've posted pics  (and video) of 60833 on here before, as has Tony. It has splashers. They just can't be seen on the photo's. Built & painted by Rick it was lined by Paul Moore. It's a Nu-cast kit running on a fully sprung Branchlines chassis. 

 

Two photographs of it hauling the very heavy Delaval to Holloway empty stock working.

 

 

 

 

and a phot of Mr Houldons V2 in EM following the Gamston Bonfire that occurred just a few yard to the North West.

 

 

Just moving away from V2's, for anybody that is interested, this is the under-gubbins of Ricks signal.

 

 

P

[grahame]

1 hour ago, RLBH said:

My view on these is that one can allow one such event on a 'serious' layout. Maybe a second if it's large. Unusual, spectacular and extreme events do happen, some of them on a daily basis - a pub fight on a bucolic 1930s GWR branch line might be out of place, while it might be amiss not to have on a 1970s urban layout.

 

 

I used to drink in pubs, many of them rough and in non-salubrious areas, six nights a week all over London throughout the 70s and 80s and never saw a fight - certainly not one that spilt over in to the streets. At any sign of trouble people were ejected and banned - no fights ensued - although I did see a girl run out of a pub in Wigan topless but that was more recently and I guess it might have been some sort of Norvern custom. I also used to go and watch Millwall on a regular basis and only ever saw one fight which was between two chaps who ended up rolling around on the floor next to a hot dog stall while the crowd gathered around in a semi circle laughing at them. 

 

G

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

What is this 'Gamston Bonfire'... ?