Wright writes.....

[StephenB]

I've just been looking at a short clip of Stoke Summit. Was there any reason why the trailing crossover by the signal box was not modelled?

 

StephenB

[Tony Wright]

And 40 years since we met!

 

Tony, I believe Fordley Park was at the Leeds Show in the Corn Exchange in 1976 or 77? First time I had seen a layout from the Wolverhampton team.

Baz

Barry,

 

I think it was 1979 or '80, and there's an amusing story to go with it (a different one from my getting a splinter in my a**e because of the rough floor in that magnificent building as I was attaching cables underneath the layout!). 

 

The story concerns a certain model shop in Banbury, now long gone. A year or two before, a friend and I had set off for a day's photography, framing the all-blue locos with the splendid ex-GWR lower-quadrant semaphore in the area. After our pictures had been taken, we found the model shop. Just to fill-in the picture, my friend ran his own company (we'd driven in his brand-new big BMW) and I was a head of department in a large comprehensive school (it was before either of our wives had children, so they were both working, too). So, our wallets were 'fat' so to speak, and both of us were contemplating buying (at least two each) of the not-long-released DJH A1 kit. Both of us were 'experienced' loco-builders, saw no potential problems in making four A1s (or maybe five or six) between us. Fordley Park had not long become an ER layout (that's another story), and since it represented the line 'twixt Doncaster and Leeds in BR steam days, four A1s were a minimum. I'd already built two A1s (from Wills A2 adaptations - scratch-built chassis, scratch-built extra bits, etc), but these wouldn't be in the same class (other than their being A1s).

 

So, imagine the scenario. Two relatively affluent men, intent on spending some readies on at least four big loco kits. Perhaps someone will post on what price the original DJH A1s were - considerably more than, say, the K's or Wills alternatives of the day, especially as they came with a full set of Romfords. Four motors as well would be needed. A made-up A1 was on display in a cabinet.

 

'May we see an A1 kit, please?'

 

'Are you thinking of buying one?'

 

'More than one, actually, but we'd like to see which components are etched/cast, etc'.

 

'I'm not opening a box, because they're all sealed, unless you buy the kit'.

 

'But we'll not buy the kit until we've examined what it looks like.' You are the manufacturers, so surely it would be good policy to have all the kit components out on display'. 

 

'That's not our policy'.

 

'Why not? Anyway, may we see the complete model, please?'

 

'No, the cabinet's locked. Can't you look at it through the glass?' 

 

'May we speak with the manager, please?' 

 

'He's out, but I'll ask another guy'.

 

I should point out that I immediately felt at home; in my classroom, on a Friday afternoon when I'd be teaching 4C. The guy we'd been talking to had an earring (I must apologise for my prejudice) and a hair-do, the like of which had my barber inflicted on me I'd have sued! In walked not-much-north-of my-neck number two, complete with T-shirt emblazoned with some sort of diabolical symbol (again, forgive my prejudice) and an equally peculiar mop. His answers were just the same.

 

We put our wallets away, but there was one last question from me. 

 

'Do you have any Great Central transfers, please? I'm building a GC Atlantic for a friend and he wants it in GC-livery. I've tried everywhere, but can't find any'. 

 

'You can't have looked very far, because we've got loads' 

 

'Wonderful, I'll have two sheets please'. 

 

Out came two sheets of PC GWR loco lettering.

 

'I said GC'.

 

'They're close enough, aren't they?'

 

We left, fast! 

 

Anyway, the moral of this sorry tale............ 

 

John Hughes, DJH's proprietor at the time was at the Leeds Show at the same time as Fordley Park. 

 

'Good to see that someone's been building our A1 kits, what do you think of them?' I felt quite proud that he'd mistaken my 'fudged' ones for his made-up kits. 

 

'I don't know'. I'd built two more adaptations by then, and explained what had happened. 

 

He went ballistic, apologised profusely and informed us (after he'd gone to make a phone call) that the two were no longer in his employment. Whether this was 'because of' of 'prior to', I don't know. Both my friend and I bought A1 kits there and then (I've now built over 20), and subsequently I've had nothing but praise for that first-rate firm. 

 

Apologies for the length of this sorry tale, but it shows that though, in the past, there were model shops which stocked everything for the kit-builder, they only worked (as most of them did) because helpful, knowledgeable folk were there to serve you. On Saturday, I visited Great Eastern Models in Norwich. Though the lady proprietor 'admitted' that she no longer stocked the staples for the kit-builder, she used to, but there was no longer a demand. But, what a difference. Nothing was too much trouble (even though it was close to closing time), the shop was packed with stock, beautifully-displayed and a pleasure to visit. I recommend it. 

Edited September 28, 2015 by Tony Wright

[Tony Wright]

 

My most grateful thanks To Tom Foster for shooting and editing the above DVD, and to Simon Roberts for his unstinting assistance on the day. 

Edited September 28, 2015 by Tony Wright

[Tony Wright]

I was particularly taken by the photos in post 5869 after the track through the station had been laid by Norman Solomon but before anything else was done. Was there any particular reason for doing the station ares before the hidden sidings - just timing perhaps?

 

Stephen

Stephen,

 

It was just timing.

[Tony Wright]

I've just been looking at a short clip of Stoke Summit. Was there any reason why the trailing crossover by the signal box was not modelled?

 

StephenB

Stephen,

 

There was.

 

Some of the prototype pictures we used post-dated the period, after the crossover had gone, though salient features still remained. Once all the track was laid, wired and ballasted it was too late. A grave inaccuracy, but it was really only an impression. To have done it to scale would have required over 90'.

Edited September 28, 2015 by Tony Wright

[StephenB]

What utter magic - a faithful representation of the way railways used to work - too many time at exhibitions you don't see any shunting but this is brilliant. I also like the background music, one piece of which has been used before.

 

Stephen

[PMP]

[snip]

 

So, imagine the scenario. Two relatively affluent men, intent on spending some readies on at least four big loco kits. Perhaps someone will post on what price the original DJH A1s were - considerably more than, say, the K's or Wills alternatives of the day, especially as they came with a full set of Romfords. Four motors as well would be needed. A made-up A1 was on display in a cabinet.

 

'May we see an A1 kit, please?'

 

'Are you thinking of buying one?'

 

'More than one, actually, but we'd like to see which components are etched/cast, etc'.

 

'I'm not opening a box, because they're all sealed, unless you buy the kit'.

[snip]

 

 

 

 

I do have a degree of sympathy for the shop assistant here, (but not much). The DJH kits in the early 80's were around the £80 mark including the wheels IIRC. Thus around £250 in today's money. When the Model Loco 9F came out they were the glass £100 ceiling breaker! Some of them DJH had a wrap round label which covered the entire end and onto the base of the box. Possibly to prevent wheels being removed. We did open boxes but usually we had a good feel for the customer before doing so,there were of course some box kickers out there,This meant that if previously opened it was obvious, and therefore a harder sale if a punter knew the box had been opened. If spending £80 then, you'd expect a pristine box and contents. Often at MRM the buyers replaced the wheels anyway with Maygib or Gibson, and we swapped the Romfords doing a PX into shop stock.

 

 

Re Brass  we used to sell it at MRM too and there were a few gems that came out. This was one of them a Samhongsa 97xx, I've only ever see a handful of them and I think it was a production run of 200, they come up very rarely and I recently grabbed this one at auction for a song after a tip off from Adrian Swain.

 

 

Weathering is one of those things that is very much a personal taste, at MRM the retail side of weathered items in the 80's was restricted to those that had been done by modellers. As a rule a weathered model unless done to exceptional standard was a very hard sell, when spending a lot of money the punters definitely went for ex-works, that's where the value was. I used to do some for customers but not as an official service, nothing to focus the mind more than the potential of ruining a customers pride and joy. I always worked from an image/s of the type of stock being worked on. Here's one from earlier in this year, a Bachmann 64xx weathered with enamels, acrylics, MIG pigments and artists pastels.

 

 

 

 

 

[Tony Wright]

What utter magic - a faithful representation of the way railways used to work - too many time at exhibitions you don't see any shunting but this is brilliant. I also like the background music, one piece of which has been used before.

 

Stephen

Thanks Stephen,

 

As mentioned, though, the real praise should go to Tom Foster for his tolerance in making the DVD. It took all day, starting mid-morning and finishing well after dark. 

 

Whenever I've made DVDs before (or really appeared in them), I always think to myself, why didn't I say this or that? Or I should have done a part of the presentation much better, but there is not unlimited resources, particularly in terms of time. 

 

An aspect which pleased the three of us greatly was that at no time was filming curtailed or a second take needed because of the layout or the stock. No loco failed, stuttered, derailed or misbehaved and no train derailed or divided, either through normal running (quite fast at times), being propelled out of the kick-back sidings or in shunting. Any problems or less-than-silky-smooth performance were entirely due to operational ineptitude - ME! 

 

I hope I've mentioned everyone I needed to in thanks. Perhaps one aspect I should have highlighted (but forgot) are the little additions which guests have brought for the layout - beautiful figures and platform accessories. My apologies for missing out such generosity. But, I firmly believe credit should be given where due. Little Bytham is very much a team effort. Yes, the likes of Norman Solomon, Mick Nicholson and Ian Rathbone have all been paid for their input - they deserve it - and I've paid Tony Geary for the carriages he built which now run on LB. But, amongst the group whose names are mentioned or alluded to, we've all made stuff ourselves. Without those personal contributions, 'my' layout would be much the poorer. It's essential we've made most of it ourselves. Gentlemen, my greatest thanks.  

[Tony Wright]

 

I do have a degree of sympathy for the shop assistant here, (but not much). The DJH kits in the early 80's were around the £80 mark including the wheels IIRC. Thus around £250 in today's money. When the Model Loco 9F came out they were the glass £100 ceiling breaker! Some of them DJH had a wrap round label which covered the entire end and onto the base of the box. Possibly to prevent wheels being removed. We did open boxes but usually we had a good feel for the customer before doing so,there were of course some box kickers out there,This meant that if previously opened it was obvious, and therefore a harder sale if a punter knew the box had been opened. If spending £80 then, you'd expect a pristine box and contents. Often at MRM the buyers replaced the wheels anyway with Maygib or Gibson, and we swapped the Romfords doing a PX into shop stock.

 

 

Re Brass  we used to sell it at MRM too and there were a few gems that came out. This was one of them a Samhongsa 97xx, I've only ever see a handful of them and I think it was a production run of 200, they come up very rarely and I recently grabbed this one at auction for a song after a tip off from Adrian Swain.

 

IMG_3670.CR2.jpg

 

Weathering is one of those things that is very much a personal taste, at MRM the retail side of weathered items in the 80's was restricted to those that had been done by modellers. As a rule a weathered model unless done to exceptional standard was a very hard sell, when spending a lot of money the punters definitely went for ex-works, that's where the value was. I used to do some for customers but not as an official service, nothing to focus the mind more than the potential of ruining a customers pride and joy. I always worked from an image/s of the type of stock being worked on. Here's one from earlier in this year, a Bachmann 64xx weathered with enamels, acrylics, MIG pigments and artists pastels.

 

IMG_4396.jpg

 

Thanks; lovely models by the way.................. 

 

Who are you, please? Did you work in the same shop? Have we spoken in the past? This is, once more, why I dislike 'user-names'.

 

I understand how a less-than-pristine (opened box) might seem a bit of a deterrent to purchasing, but, as the shop was also the manufacturer, only one box would be needed to be opened, surely? Then potential customers could look at that. Or not even a box. Why not display the complete contents in a cabinet or on a piece of card (as others did). 

 

In the particular case cited, my friend and I had a good idea what to expect, but we wished to make sure. So, at '70s' prices, a sale of over £250.00 was lost to the firm. 

[Brian Kirby]

Hi Tony and Everyone,

     Love the DVD, particularly the run-pasts viewed from the platform, the stock looks as impressive as always. Two little points, would it be possible to mask out the real walls and ceiling on the low shots, perhaps with some temporary backscene for filming, then we really will be in dream world? Secondly, and dare i say this, any chance of a few weeds between the otherwise well maintained ECML tracks? Reversing in and out of fiddle yard sidings is very Borchesteresque, Frank would have approved, and i'm sure he'd have absolutely loved your layout. It's good to see you keeping busy.

      I can reveal the PMP mystery figure, as my old MRM KX colleague Paul Marshall-Potter with whom i'm still in regular touch, Paul wasn't there as long as me (for my sins), he has always been a dab hand on scenics and weathering, he's done a nice job on the 64xx above. Regarding the un-opened kit box dilemma, we had the same problem at King's Cross, Nu-Sto/Nu-Cast kits were "sealed" in an orange and white wrapper, which didn't look good when replaced on the shelf with the wrapper slashed, as if the contents had been violated. Even our own Jamieson kits were sealed with a yellow band, to keep prying eyes out, but of course people needed to see what they were buying, and this probably suppressed sales of these, although they were an older, more basic range, we often referred to them as "an aid to scratchbuilding". Even Cotswold and Wills kits were contained by a strip of sellotape, extra added tape did not look good later on, but we used to open everything at KX, in any case you'd need to check the instructions, so as to supply any extra parts needed. Maybe it was the later K's kits that had the best answer, with everything to see in bubble/vacuum packs, although by then the kits weren't as good as they used to be, with the addition of cheap motors, plastic gears and the steel with soft plastic-centred wheels (not to mention the dreaded plastic handrail knobs), but they were always good for the window display. Perhaps the solution would have been plain loose boxes, held with large flat elastic bands either end?

        Regarding the unfortunate experience at Banbury, with the boss away maybe there was a degree of peer pressure not to tamper with the boxes? However, if this was the "factory outlet", surely they would have been able to re-pack/replace the box from the packaging stockpile?

                                                                                          Cheers, Brian.

[gr.king]

Always nice to see a layout of such quality looking well on the way to completion and "doing its stuff". The result so far has to be ample justification for deciding to carry on with its construction after any difficult moments along the way.

[Class O]

Very enjoyable, thanks for posting, well done to all concerned.....Owen

[Tony Wright]

Hi Tony and Everyone,

     Love the DVD, particularly the run-pasts viewed from the platform, the stock looks as impressive as always. Two little points, would it be possible to mask out the real walls and ceiling on the low shots, perhaps with some temporary backscene for filming, then we really will be in dream world? Secondly, and dare i say this, any chance of a few weeds between the otherwise well maintained ECML tracks? Reversing in and out of fiddle yard sidings is very Borchesteresque, Frank would have approved, and i'm sure he'd have absolutely loved your layout. It's good to see you keeping busy.

      I can reveal the PMP mystery figure, as my old MRM KX colleague Paul Marshall-Potter with whom i'm still in regular touch, Paul wasn't there as long as me (for my sins), he has always been a dab hand on scenics and weathering, he's done a nice job on the 64xx above. Regarding the un-opened kit box dilemma, we had the same problem at King's Cross, Nu-Sto/Nu-Cast kits were "sealed" in an orange and white wrapper, which didn't look good when replaced on the shelf with the wrapper slashed, as if the contents had been violated. Even our own Jamieson kits were sealed with a yellow band, to keep prying eyes out, but of course people needed to see what they were buying, and this probably suppressed sales of these, although they were an older, more basic range, we often referred to them as "an aid to scratchbuilding". Even Cotswold and Wills kits were contained by a strip of sellotape, extra added tape did not look good later on, but we used to open everything at KX, in any case you'd need to check the instructions, so as to supply any extra parts needed. Maybe it was the later K's kits that had the best answer, with everything to see in bubble/vacuum packs, although by then the kits weren't as good as they used to be, with the addition of cheap motors, plastic gears and the steel with soft plastic-centred wheels (not to mention the dreaded plastic handrail knobs), but they were always good for the window display. Perhaps the solution would have been plain loose boxes, held with large flat elastic bands either end?

        Regarding the unfortunate experience at Banbury, with the boss away maybe there was a degree of peer pressure not to tamper with the boxes? However, if this was the "factory outlet", surely they would have been able to re-pack/replace the box from the packaging stockpile?

                                                                                          Cheers, Brian.

Thanks Brian,

 

I hope you're keeping well - how good to hear from you.

 

I'm investigating the notion of blanking out the background (with cloud sheets and the like), just for the making of further DVDS (if friends can stand it!). For still-photography, it doesn't matter with the likes of Photo Shop. 

 

'Very Borchesteresque?' You give me far too much praise, my friend. Frank was a great name in the hobby, one of the innovators, pioneers and amongst the most influential. He did everything by himself and made everything himself. He was self-reliant in all his model-making. That's not me, but thanks for making an association, and I'm sure Frank would have been pleased. 

 

Kings Cross Models - what a great place. With EAMES of Reading, surely one of the best partnerships in the retail business for the 'true' modeller. I first met you there (were you there when Bert was present?). I once purchased all the raw materials to make the A1/1 from scratch from Kings Cross - brass strip, nickel silver sheet, chimney, dome, buffers, whistle, safety valves, smokebox door, superheater header covers, bogie, pony, Cartazzi frames, tender axleboxes, vacuum standpipes, motor gears, wheels, what else? All available as standard parts, sold by guys who were themselves 'proper' modellers (my definition). It all went to France - my wife and I were off on holiday, and I just popped in. Impossible today (not going to France, I mean), because such marvellous emporiums no longer exist. More folk in the hobby (or it seems to me) seem happier with RTR/RTP nowadays. What's happened to those types who were much happier actually making things? Or, has my record stuck? 

 

Very best wishes,

 

Tony. 

Edited September 28, 2015 by Tony Wright

[polybear]

He went ballistic, apologised profusely and informed us (after he'd gone to make a phone call) that the two were no longer in his employment.

I've always wondered who got me the sack.  Now I know....

 

Cheers,

Brian

[glo41f]

Tony

 

Thanks for  the video -marvellous!  You have to my mind captured the thrill that we had  waiting by the line side for the next "cop". I can easily lose myself in the illusion.

 

I too loved KX models. Everything you wanted was there. It was a regular visit when going to the MRC on Thursdays.. I was always drawn to the glass display cases of the lovely painted models which were always out of my price range. My speciality was Nu Cast B1's. I must have made about 10 all of which were sold on providing useful funds for other projects. It is sad that there is nothing like it these days but then I suppose that is progress.

 

I wonder where it will end?7

 

Martin Long

[Tony Wright]

A friend brought Hornby's latest D16/3 round this afternoon.

 

 

Very nice indeed, at not much over £100.00. 

 

My thoughts? It didn't run as sweetly as the same firm's J15, with a bit of a tight spot and stutter. It's well-finished, though. However, the numbers on the front plate are too big - nearer ex-GWR or BR Standard size. 

 

Has anyone else got any comments, please? 

[coachmann]

Has anyone else got any comments, please? 

Yes, I wonder why Hornby chose to change the grey line along the footplate angle to red above the steps. It's weird.

[Focalplane]

Tony

 

May I please use your thread to pose a question?

 

I have a MicroMark catalog (excuse the American spelling, but I worked there most of my working days and my computer is set to US English) and in it there is a product called Micro-Glaze.  I have searched high, low and in between for this product but only MicroMark seem to sell it.  The problem is the shipping cost is much higher than the product.  They have other wonderful products in their catalog which I would buy to spread the cost but these can only be delivered within the Lower 48 states due to the chemical content, etc..

 

Micro-Glaze is a way for fitting loco cab windows using a toothpick to line the frame and then "pull" the glass across the window.  It almost seems to be too wonderful to be true.

 

http://www.micromark.com/Micro-Glaze-15-oz,7585.html

 

Do any of the good modelers who follow this (most useful) RMWeb topic know where it can be obtained in the UK?

 

Again, Tony, I hope this is not too intrusive, if it is I will delete it.

 

Paul

 

PS  I have been on MicroMark's mailing list for years and every missive is mouthwatering but potentially expensive!

[Tony Wright]

Tony

 

May I please use your thread to pose a question?

 

I have a MicroMark catalog (excuse the American spelling, but I worked there most of my working days and my computer is set to US English) and in it there is a product called Micro-Glaze.  I have searched high, low and in between for this product but only MicroMark seem to sell it.  The problem is the shipping cost is much higher than the product.  They have other wonderful products in their catalog which I would buy to spread the cost but these can only be delivered within the Lower 48 states due to the chemical content, etc..

 

Micro-Glaze is a way for fitting loco cab windows using a toothpick to line the frame and then "pull" the glass across the window.  It almost seems to be too wonderful to be true.

 

http://www.micromark.com/Micro-Glaze-15-oz,7585.html

 

Do any of the good modelers who follow this (most useful) RMWeb topic know where it can be obtained in the UK?

 

Again, Tony, I hope this is not too intrusive, if it is I will delete it.

 

Paul

 

PS  I have been on MicroMark's mailing list for years and every missive is mouthwatering but potentially expensive!

Paul,

 

Have you tried Micro Kristal Klear (hideous spelling, too)? It's sold by Microscale Industries and is available from many British retailers. It's a very fine PVA substance, perfect for spectacle glazing. You just apply it around the aperture with a tooth-pick/cocktail stick, then drag it across. Dead easy, and it dries clear. 

[Focalplane]

Paul,

 

Have you tried Micro Kristal Klear (hideous spelling, too)? It's sold by Microscale Industries and is available from many British retailers. It's a very fine PVA substance, perfect for spectacle glazing. You just apply it around the aperture with a tooth-pick/cocktail stick, then drag it across. Dead easy, and it dries clear. 

Tony

 

Thank you, I will look into this.  Why does everything in the UK and US have to be spelled differently!

 

As an aside, and I think you will appreciate this, I am often questioned about my American enunciation of schedule - yes, "skedule".  To which my stock answer is "so I suppose you learned to speak in a British shule?"

 

Again, many thanks, Paul

[gr.king]

Regarding the D16/3, I've yet to scrutinize mine closely (LNER livery of course) but it appears to run very sweetly. I hadn't noticed the thickness of the guard irons until I saw the preceding photo. Maybe a replacement set in nickel silver, cut so as to fit into slots in the buffer beam for secure mounting, would be something to consider as a pedant's upgrade?

[mullie]

 

My most grateful thanks To Tom Foster for shooting and editing the above DVD, and to Simon Roberts for his unstinting assistance on the day.

 

What a great film, truly inspirational. Well done to all involved.

[westerner]

Well done all concerned with the DVD. an enjoyable half hour or so was spent watching.

[Chris-GNR]

A friend brought Hornby's latest D16/3 round this afternoon.

 

Hornby D16 3 R3234 03.jpg

 

Very nice indeed, at not much over £100.00.

 

My thoughts? It didn't run as sweetly as the same firm's J15, with a bit of a tight spot and stutter. It's well-finished, though. However, the numbers on the front plate are too big - nearer ex-GWR or BR Standard size.

 

Has anyone else got any comments, please?

 

 

 

Aside from joints between the smoke box & it's saddle, the leading driving wheel splasher & the running plate & the cab & the running plate being big enough to get a hand into it looks to be the current standard for RTR. Nice to see the garde irons have been modelled to the correct gauge.

[gr.king]

 Why does everything in the UK and US have to be spelled differently!

 

The Yanks can't help it I'm afraid. They stopped taking any notice of the proper British Way of doing things in 1776.

 

If anything isn't it school that is wrongly pronounced as skool, not schedule? Compare with the equivalent word in any of the other languages with a Germanic root. I assume that English has been corrupted in this respect by the funny French that the Normans brought with them, including (presumably) 'ecole'. No point going all the way back to comparisons with Latin though, as who can possibly claim to know how that was originally pronounced!