Wright writes.....

[t-b-g]

12 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Tony

 

There may only be a few people modelling the West Highland line in the 1930s, but if you were one of them and saw that model wouldn't you want it?

 

No!

 

Apart from a very few exceptions, when I have purchased locos that were built by departed friends to have as a memento, I don't buy models which others have built. I bought a couple of George Norton locos and a couple of Malcolm Crawley's to add to the ones he left to me in his will.

 

Apart from those I have never bought a second hand kit built loco and I don't intend to start now. That is a slight untruth as I bought a job lot of unbuilt kits once and one of them had been built up but it has stayed in its box. It is too well painted to mess about with but it is not in the right livery for my period and not a loco which ran in my area of interest.

 

My hobby has always been about making things for myself and if I wanted a K4 I would want it to be one that I had built.

 

Edit to add that I am no expert on K4s but I think that lettering style makes it likely to be in post war but pre nationalisation condition.

 

Edited July 11, 2021 by t-b-g
To add content

[Chamby]

40 minutes ago, 45609 said:

A very reasonable point Tony. As popular as this thread is there are only 313 people following it.

 

Added to that, you can apply the 80/20 rule... 80% of the interest will come from 20% of the followers.  So 60-ish?  I’m guessing that Tony will have heard from rather less than that.  

 

60-ish would not be a problem for the occasional locomotive, but with a large batch you’ll need a very high pick-up rate, or a few people finding themselves with deep pockets at the right time.

 

For my part, I’m ‘in the market’ for a couple of specific items, especially if they’ve been checked over by Tony, but they haven’t appeared.  That might also be a part of the problem... Wright’s Writers often have very specific interests and needs!

 

 

 

 

Edited July 11, 2021 by Chamby
Tweak

[Headstock]

1 hour ago, Clem said:

Following on from last night's post, here below, is the example of the one that is almost complete that I started recently to give you an idea of where I'm going with this. I say it's not complete, but all that's required is some further weathering and axle boxes tie bar painting to fully finish it. Also shown is the shot of the latest wagons supporting plate upside down showing the extra strengthening it requires to hold together until it is finally fixed to its body.

 

 

 

 

Finally, off the subject but I'll stick it in for anyone who's interested, a couple of shots, one of  recently added minerals, upgraded from RTRs waiting to go into service and one just for the sake of it.

 

 

 

 

Good morning Clem,

 

thanks for taking the effort to reply so quickly and in so much detail. One of the things that I was pondering, was whether it was possible to cut away the platform, leaving the various detail parts in situ but attached to the hopper body. I can see from the way that the model dismantles, that it may not be possible and filing down the platform may be much simpler. I am bound to have more questions, for the moment, I must do a bit of work in the garden before the forecast changes. I can't believe that RTR manufactures are still charging 'blue ribbon' prices for these elongated little monsters. Many thanks again for the inspirational work.

[Headstock]

9 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

 

No!

 

Apart from a very few exceptions, when I have purchased locos that were built by departed friends to have as a memento, I don't buy models which others have built. I bought a couple of George Norton locos and a couple of Malcolm Crawley's to add to the ones he left to me in his will.

 

Apart from those I have never bought a second hand kit built loco and I don't intend to start now. That is a slight untruth as I bought a job lot of unbuilt kits once and one of them had been built up but it has stayed in its box. It is too well painted to mess about with but it is not in the right livery for my period and not a loco which ran in my area of interest.

 

My hobby has always been about making things for myself and if I wanted a K4 I would want it to be one that I had built.

 

Edit to add that I am no expert on K4s but I think that lettering style makes it likely to be in post war but pre nationalisation condition.

 

 

The K4 is definitely post war.

[Clem]

11 minutes ago, Headstock said:

 

Good morning Clem,

 

thanks for taking the effort to reply so quickly and in so much detail. One of the things that I was pondering, was whether it was possible to cut away the platform, leaving the various detail parts in situ but attached to the hopper body. I can see from the way that the model dismantles, that it may not be possible and filing down the platform may be much simpler. I am bound to have more questions, for the moment, I must do a bit of work in the garden before the forecast changes. I can't believe that RTR manufactures are still charging 'blue ribbon' prices for these elongated little monsters. Many thanks again for the inspirational work.

You're very welcome. Think of it as a small pay back for all the inspirational posts of yours (and others). I had considered doing exactly as your suggestion at first but I couldn't see how you could get the detail off without writing it off. In the end the filing was the only option other that scratch building all the detail. One short cut I now use - but it is a bit risky is to use a mini drill with a mini milling attachment . By going down to about 0.5mm depth every couple of millimetres you get a ploughed field effect which can then be filed as normal until the areas are flat. In doing this, the file seems to make far quicker progress. But you have to be careful not to go too deep with the milling attachment.

Edited July 11, 2021 by Clem

[gr.king]

12 hours ago, Ian Rathbone said:

You’ve missed out the third wing - those who have vast knowledge, have no intention (or ability) to build anything but take pleasure in criticising other people’s work - the rivet counter. Although unloved and unwanted they are as much part of the hobby as the rest. 
 

As a painter I find it difficult to see beyond the paintwork just as, say, a professional signaller would immediately note the signal errors on a layout. I also cringe at white window frames on period layouts. To build any type of layout accurately would take more knowledge and skill than 99% of us have, so we have to tolerate the odd error and look at the broader picture, except perhaps banjo domes. (Hint, take photos from rail level so the type of dome is obscured).

 

Ian R
 

 

 

 

I agree regarding the pure "rivet counter" faction, and had only omitted to mention them in my categories as I considered that they lie outside the groups of builders and those with sincere intention of building.

It is also true that specialist knowledge inevitably leads to more critical assessment of certain features, and few if any of us can be specialists in everything.

[Craigw]

30 minutes ago, Chamby said:

 

Added to that, you can apply the 80/20 rule... 80% of the interest will come from 20% of the followers.  So 60-ish?  I’m guessing that Tony will have heard from rather less than that.  

 

60-ish would not be a problem for the occasional locomotive, but with a large batch you’ll need a very high pick-up rate, or a few people finding themselves with deep pockets at the right time.

 

For my part, I’m ‘in the market’ for a couple of specific items, especially if they’ve been checked over by Tony, but they haven’t appeared.  That might also be a part of the problem... Wright’s Writers often have very specific interests and needs!

 

 

 

 

 

I check on this thread regularly and do like it but I do not follow it. The main reason for this is it has a lot of activity so unlikely to get lost. I have purchased a few kits off Tony and there are a few of these that appeal even though they are outside my area of interest. But, they are 16.5mm gauge and I am a P4 modeller and converting them to P4 would mean undoing so much of what has been built and is to my mind pointless. Quite a shame because that Bradwell J27 looks lovely.

 

Regards,

 

Craig W

 

[thegreenhowards]

1 hour ago, D-A-T said:

Having taken an interest in kit built locos on eBay over the past 6 months or so a few observations if I may.

 

Most seem to be priced into the £250 to £400 bracket.

 

Most, and I mean the majority, seem to NOT sell and the same locos appear repeatedly without any reduction in price.

 

If there is a RTR equivalent then the price needs to be below that of RTR equivalent unless exceptionally well built or a rare variation or livery.

 

Rare or pre-grouping locos fetch the most with a significant number of bids.

 

However what is of interest is the figures made by pristine loco kits. They are commanding significant sums with lots of interest.

 

Some recent examples include:

 

DJH MODELS GCR/LNER 4-4-0 POLLITT LOCO KIT made £185.00

 

McGOWAN MODELS GCR ATLANTIC 4-4-2 LOCO KIT made £140.88

 

REDCRAFT BRASS LOCO KIT FOR A RHYMNEY RAILWAY/GWR CLASS J 0-6-0 OSF SADDLE TANK made £244.00

 

Alan Gibson 4mm Scale Brass GWR 4-4-2T No 4600 Loco Boxed Locomotive Kit made £175.00

 

However some, as stated with RTR equivalent made low figures in my opinion.

 

For example a Blacksmith Models G.E.R./L.N.E.R./B.R. 4.4.0 D16 1/2/3 Claud Hamilton OO Gauge 4mm scale made £73.79 with motor and wheels. A bargain to my eyes.

 

So if you want your beneficiaries to make the most from model railways as your hobby just buy “rare” kits and don’t build them!

 

I agree with everything which D-A-T has said. I follow eBay auctions for LNER kit built locos always on the look out for a bargain. I’ve never paid more than £120 and generally it’s between £50 and £100. I.e. around the price of second hand RTR, a little more if it’s well built and rather less if it looks shoddy or is a non runner. I tend to assume that everything will need some work both cosmetically and to get it to run well. Even locos sold as ‘good runner’ quite often fall apart quickly or refuse to go round curves. The fact that you have tested all these on a real layout should make a difference but I suspect only a modest one as most people who buy kit locos to use would be capable of getting them to run. If not they’re in for an expensive mistake!
 

The big exception is stuff for which no decent RTR equivalent is available. The two most expensive 00 locos I’ve ever bought were both from you - V2 The Green Howard and Duke of Rothesay. A2/1s still go for good money on eBay as there is no RTR equivalent, but probably a bit less than before as Hornby’s other Thompson Pacifics have soaked up some of the potential demand. The V2 I wouldn’t have bought now with the new Bachmann version imminent, but it’s given c.5 years of excellent service and is still my best V2, so I’m not complaining!

 

I’m afraid that the price that it would cost to build is rather irrelevant as I can’t imagine that anyone would commission locos with an RTR equivalent now. The commissioning market has, I presume, moved to more esoteric designs not available RTR. 

 

The potential market for most of these is someone who enjoys collecting and/ or using metal kits rather than someone who ‘needs’ a particular loco for their layout. That’s a rather smaller pond to fish in and there is plenty of supply for the potential purchasers to nibble on.

 

Sorry if I've reinforced the bad news from others and good luck with the sales.

 

Andy

 

 

[Paul Cram]

I model the NER/LNER and the J27 looks very good, howver it is the wrong gauge and period for me and like Craig would need to put a new chassis under it.

[Paul Cram]

I am not sure the J21 is Bradwell. To my knowledge the only brass J21 is the London Road ex Geerge Norton ex O7 models kit.

[jrg1]

5 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Many thanks,

 

I've noted what you mention, but the slidebar supports are fixed to the body and I can't get the chassis out.

 

To be frank, I'm not going to investigate further. It doesn't work (though it doesn't short) and I'm trying to sell it as that (obviously for a low price).

 

Is anyone interested?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

I forgot to mention that you need to take off the connecting rods and pull out the crossheads.  I wish I had bought the Jin 97xx panniers instead.

[Tony Wright]

2 hours ago, t-b-g said:

People have a huge range of ideas about what prices of things should be. I was once asked to build some signals for somebody and they were most put out that the price I would charge for a motorised and lit soldered up and painted working signal wasn't matching the price that Dapol charge for theirs.

 

If they can do them at that price I should apparently be able to do the same.

 

I politely declined and wished him luck finding somebody.

 

Others understand the work involved and are happy to pay a sensible hourly rate for my time building things.

 

The real problem comes in selling second hand items. By their very nature, they have to be pretty much impulse purchases as nobody knows what is coming onto the market, so unless you reach a big audience the chances of finding the one or two people who really want what is on sale are slim.

 

I know somebody who watches lots of auctions and buys things from time to time but many times models have sold for far more than he is willing to pay so it might be the answer here.

 

People looking to buy a loco won't necessarily make Wright Writes their place to look but they will check auction listings regularly.

Thanks Tony,

 

Other avenues are being investigated.

 

Wright writes was my obvious 'first port of call', but (with help) I should get the collection to a wider market. 

 

I do find it odd that some offers are £100.00 less than the cost of the parts...................

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited July 11, 2021 by Tony Wright

[Tony Wright]

2 minutes ago, jrg1 said:

I forgot to mention that you need to take off the connecting rods and pull out the crossheads.  I wish I had bought the Jin 97xx panniers instead.

 

Many thanks, but it'll be someone else's job.....................

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[robertcwp]

I have so far raised around £7,500 from the items I have been selling, not counting the latest round of kit sales by Tony.

 

I still have lots of RTR stock to dispose of, including this lot that I had to store in the loft temporarily and that has not been catalogued. It's mostly 1990s Bachmann, Lima and Mainline so probably not worth much other than anything with collector interest. I shall probably dispose of it in bulk along with the other stock I have left.

 

IMG_0996s by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, t-b-g said:

 

No!

 

Apart from a very few exceptions, when I have purchased locos that were built by departed friends to have as a memento, I don't buy models which others have built. I bought a couple of George Norton locos and a couple of Malcolm Crawley's to add to the ones he left to me in his will.

 

Apart from those I have never bought a second hand kit built loco and I don't intend to start now. That is a slight untruth as I bought a job lot of unbuilt kits once and one of them had been built up but it has stayed in its box. It is too well painted to mess about with but it is not in the right livery for my period and not a loco which ran in my area of interest.

 

My hobby has always been about making things for myself and if I wanted a K4 I would want it to be one that I had built.

 

Edit to add that I am no expert on K4s but I think that lettering style makes it likely to be in post war but pre nationalisation condition.

 

You're dead right about the K4, Tony.

 

It is a very-limited time period represented.

 

I'm entirely of the same mind as you when it comes to buying locos built by others. Why, when I could build it myself?

 

However, in this case I'm just trying to be the seller..

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[jrg1]

1 hour ago, Clem said:

You're very welcome. Think of it as a small pay back for all the inspirational posts of yours (and others). I had considered doing exactly as your suggestion at first but I couldn't see how you could get the detail off without writing it off. In the end the filing was the only option other that scratch building all the detail. One short cut I now use - but it is a bit risky is to use a mini drill with a mini milling attachment . By going down to about 0.5mm depth every couple of millimetres you get a ploughed field effect which can then be filed as normal until the areas are flat. In doing this, the file seems to make far quicker progress. But you have to be careful not to go too deep with the milling attachment.

Perhaps a dental burr at slow speed?

[Tony Wright]

20 minutes ago, Paul Cram said:

I am not sure the J21 is Bradwell. To my knowledge the only brass J21 is the London Road ex Geerge Norton ex O7 models kit.

Thanks Paul,

 

I was going on what was written on its box.

 

It's an LRM kit, then.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[cctransuk]

5 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning John,

 

Only when you're trying to sell them on...............................

 

I'm finding myself in a dilemma right now. Quite a few folk have responded to my request for expressions of interest in these models. However, so far, after I've asked a price, the only responses have been 'No thanks, but thanks'. In one case, I'd asked (effectively) just the cost of the kit and its components.

 

I'll wait a while, because I'm not 'giving these (lovely, in the main) models away'. 

 

A lovely model like this.................

 

 

It's a Dave Alexander K4, I think built by Ron Goult (painter unknown, though, clearly, a professional). 

 

After my ministrations of yesterday (not in the religious sense, though there certainly was blasphemy!), it now runs beautifully.

 

The point I'm making is that I wonder what a professional model-maker/-painter would quote if asked to build a model such as this (Portescap-powered) on commission? Well, it's a bit of a rhetorical question because, were I to build it, with a Mr. Rathbone or Mr. Haynes paint job, it would be a fair bit (quite a bit) north of four figures, everything included. 

 

Yes, I realise (unless a model has an outstanding provenance) that any resale value will never match the original commission price, but a 4mm paint job as good as this would be in excess of £250.00, surely? Wouldn't it Ian? Wouldn't it Geoff? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.

 

 

 

I think that the point that you overlook is that very few of us can afford to commission kit-built locos - and if we could, we would apply our own specification and pay the price accordingly.

 

What you are offering for sale are kit-built models, built to someone else's specification - not necessarily what we would commission ourselves and therefore something of an unknown quantity. By all means commit these models to auction, but I sincerely doubt that they will realise more, once commission is paid, than you will be offered here.

 

The price of anything is what someone is prepared to pay; what it would cost to reproduce is, unfortunately, irrelevant. I am under no illusions that my extensive collection of models will not realise a fraction of what they cost me to acquire, once I am gone. That's why I make a point of enjoying them now!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

 

[robertcwp]

I have been trying to renovate an old DMU for possible use on Retford. It's a Derby long-frame heavyweight unit (later Class 114), which is right for the odd DMU working to Retford in 1957.

 

The model is a Craftsman conversion of the old Lima Class 117. It's the green one on the right of this image from 2006:

 

30-09-06-8 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

I bought the model in 2000 and paid £235 for it, already built. It had marker lights either side of the headcode panel, which was wrong for these units in green livery. I added the yellow panels, which have now gone again. I replaced the motor brake chassis with a Hornby one from a second-hand 121 single unit (cost £40 about a year ago). The driving trailer bogies have been replaced with DC Kits ones, which means it now sits at about the correct height and has EM wheels. During renovations, I identified that the builder had put at least some of the numbers in the wrong place and put emblems on the DTC, which should not have them, as well as putting the emblems on the DMBS in the wrong place. I have tried to correct this but found the original transfers were fixed more firmly to the paint than the paint was to the brass sides. Last thing to sort out will be EM wheels for the DMBS, for which I have a plan. 

 

If it ends up not being up to scratch for Retford, it can easily be restored to 00 for my own layout, not that I'm short of DMUs.

[Tony Wright]

10 minutes ago, robertcwp said:

I have so far raised around £7,500 from the items I have been selling, not counting the latest round of kit sales by Tony.

 

I still have lots of RTR stock to dispose of, including this lot that I had to store in the loft temporarily and that has not been catalogued. It's mostly 1990s Bachmann, Lima and Mainline so probably not worth much other than anything with collector interest. I shall probably dispose of it in bulk along with the other stock I have left.

 

IMG_0996s by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

You'll be getting a cheque this week, Robet.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

2 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

I think that the point that you overlook is that very few of us can afford to commission kit-built locos - and if we could, we would apply our own specification and pay the price accordingly.

 

What you are offering for sale are kit-built models, built to someone else's specification - not necessarily what we would commission ourselves and therefore something of an unknown quantity. By all means commit these models to auction, but I sincerely doubt that they will realise more, once commission is paid, than you will be offered here.

 

The price of anything is what someone is prepared to pay; what it would cost to reproduce is, unfortunately, irrelevant. I am under no illusions that my extensive collection of models will not realise a fraction of what they cost me to acquire, once I am gone. That's why I make a point of enjoying them now!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

 

Thanks John,

 

I try not to overlook the fact that not all can afford to commission models. My point was one of comparison.

 

I do find it disappointing that some folk won't even offer the cost of the kit's components. As someone else has mentioned - buy kits, but don't build them!

 

I'm also under no illusions as to what my own collection of models might make on my demise. Unlike most artists, our work doesn't increase in value after our deaths! Part of the problem is an ever-expanding market with regard to goods, and an ever-decreasing one with regard to purchasers.............

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[robertcwp]

5 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

I think that the point that you overlook is that very few of us can afford to commission kit-built locos - and if we could, we would apply our own specification and pay the price accordingly.

 

What you are offering for sale are kit-built models, built to someone else's specification - not necessarily what we would commission ourselves and therefore something of an unknown quantity. By all means commit these models to auction, but I sincerely doubt that they will realise more, once commission is paid, than you will be offered here.

 

The price of anything is what someone is prepared to pay; what it would cost to reproduce is, unfortunately, irrelevant. I am under no illusions that my extensive collection of models will not realise a fraction of what they cost me to acquire, once I am gone. That's why I make a point of enjoying them now!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

 

Very good points. If you commission a model or build it yourself, it can be done your way. I have had assorted problems with kit-built locos acquired second hand and all but two have now gone, and one of those that remained needed modifications to run properly. I still own a third one, which is a NuCast B1 that Sandra converted to EM and is now on Retford, where it is very much at home.

[cctransuk]

21 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

I do find it disappointing that some folk won't even offer the cost of the kit's components.

 

But that is exactly my point - most of your potential purchasers would not have bought the components in the first place.

 

Their offers will reflect the fact that they would like to own the model, but that they have long ago accepted the fact that commissioning kit-built models is beyond their reach, and so they do without.

 

I think that, being a lifelong kit builder, accustomed to the heady prices paid by those few with the necessary wherewithal, you have to some extent lost touch with what the wider market can afford to pay for locos - RTR or kitbuilt.

 

The market for the models that you offer for sale, at the prices that you feel would be justified, is tiny / non-existent.

 

Sorry,

John Isherwood.

Edited July 11, 2021 by cctransuk

[Bucoops]

There are 3 reasons why I am unlikely to buy any of the built kits - 

 

Firstly I haven't noticed any that would suit my era and locale (having said that, @Tony Wright is it possible to do an updated list of what is left? I may have missed something of interest)

Secondly, I prefer to build things myself. The irony there of course is I still haven't had time to actually finish anything and

Thirdly, I can't afford them, for good quality builds with a portescap motor I would expect to pay quite a bit - the motors on their own go for £80+ on ebay. If there is something of interest to me i might be able to stretch to one however.

[t-b-g]

23 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Tony,

 

Other avenues are being investigated.

 

Wright writes was my obvious 'first port of call', but (with help) I should get the collection to a wider market. 

 

I do find it odd that some offers are £100.00 less than the cost of the parts...................

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

The world of selling models is a very strange one. I have seen poor models and kits go for silly money and I have seen good ones almost given away. Finding any sort of pattern or logic is difficult. It basically seems to come down a situation where if two (or more) people want it at an auction, you get a good price. If only one person wants it, you don't.

 

The demand for kit built locos when good RTR versions exist or where the prototype was limited in period or area is probably quite small and people who model obscure railways or periods (as I do) very likely do so because they like building things for themselves.

 

If one of the locos for sale had been a GCR loco in full pre-group livery, I would still not have been interested unless it was something really special and even then I couldn't justify spending huge amounts of money on it.