Wright writes.....

[Tony Wright]

Tony,

 

Many thanks for your time and nuts and bolts, and many thanks to Mo for her hospitality. I feel much happier having seen the locos performing on your layout. I look forward to seeing you again.

Our pleasure, Phil.

 

One loco you brought which (obviously) took my fancy was the V2 which Geoff had made. I didn't post a picture of it yesterday because I wanted to examine it more thoroughly this morning. 

 

 

As you saw, after a bit of tweaking with the pick-ups and part of the motion, she then ran quite well, albeit with a squeak. Without being disparaging to Geoff's creation, there were a few anomalies in the construction. The cab had a definite lean back to it (not entirely un-prototypical in some cases), the handrails finished on the smokebox sides, the tender had the odd molten bit on it and there was a lack of detail. The top of the boiler also had a curious grey covering, which turned out to be a brush-on sort of filler primer. So, what to do on a Mothers' Day morning?

 

 

Though the cab still is a bit leany, the gap at its base has gone, the handrails now extend round to the front of the smokebox, the front platform now has grab rails and lamp brackets, wiggly pipes have appeared, front footsteps have been made, further constructional gaps have been filled, the grey grot has gone from the top of the boiler, cylinder drain cocks have been made and the return cranks now lean the correct way (forwards). I've also replaced the tender with one I made earlier, closing up the Olympian gap in the process. Right now the respective footplate/soleplate alignment isn't quite right, and I'll investigate this further. 

 

 

In tight perspective, there's still a bit to do, but she doesn't half go now. Geoff had packed the boiler with lead strip at the front end (which, fortunately, just dropped out). This had made the loco nose-heavy. Since there's more than enough meat in the castings of this Nu-Cast product, I've left it out. She'll still walk away with 14 bogies with ease, so extra weight is not necessary (though, as you explained, he had a gradient on his layout). 

 

The end result is that I'll buy this loco, if I may (I'll sort out the price with you)? Though I don't normally buy locos built by others (I don't need to), I knew Geoff well and it's nice to have a memento of a friend. If I were really noble (definitely not!), I'd sell it on (one hopes my alterations/additions will have increased its value). 

 

Speaking of value, I wonder what locos like this are realistically worth? In the current (RTR obsessed?) market, probably less than the component parts. When you think that it (and the others in the main) is shod with correct drivers at over £12.00 per axle, powered by a big Mashima (over £22.00) through a Comet 'box (£20.00?), not to mention the carrying wheels, complete Comet chassis, plus what a NU-Cast V2 might cost, what kit-built locos go for seems criminally low in price. With Bachmann's announcement of the new V2 body being in preparation (to go on its new chassis), what chance for a kit-built V2? I don't know what the new Bachmann V2 will be priced at, but I bet it's less than the component parts of this V2. 

 

There is a parallel thread which is discussing the relationship between kits and RTR. I haven't bothered posting on that because I'm bound to upset some by affirming my belief in the merits of kit-building over buying RTR, I suppose because of the perception of 'elitism' (a while since that word has been used). What I would say (as I've said before), is every kit-manufacturer/builder tells me the same thing - the RTR market is by far the 'richer' because of the current quality, but it is at the expense of the kit market, especially with regard to price comparisons. Yes, of course, it's more democratic, and more can enjoy owning such high-quality models than ever before. If, like many have demonstrated on this thread, they personalise their possessions, then I'm all for it. However, if all they do is possess them (their right, after all) or get others to personalise them for them (again, their right), then the craft of actually making things personally will, in my view, diminish even further.

 

Back to the V2. Isn't this much more interesting than something just being taken out of a red or blue box, 'flawed' though it might be? 

 

Finally, I hope Geoff's locos make a reasonable return, if only to help the cancer charity. I'm glad I've been able to help. If they'd have 'just' been RTR-based, my assistance would not have been needed. 

Edited March 6, 2016 by Tony Wright

[46256]

Time v money v creativity v satisfaction with one models....I have no way of confirming....but a certain layout in 7 mm...money has been spent that I can only dream of....and please note....not a sour note, for I would do the same in similiar circumstances. I would still wager the part of that masterpiece would be something added by the owner..themselves...unnoticeable to the rest of us......but to that modeller....

[Focalplane]

I spent Saturday at the Gauge O Guild's Kettering Spring Show.  It was well attended, all the car parks were full with a shuttle bus for late comers.  I just made it to the last space available having got lost in Coventry (it is amazing to me that the A14 trunk road to Felixstowe via Kettering is not signposted at all - I may need to buy a Sat Nav).

 

I thoroughly enjoyed myself, meeting a few old friends and making many new ones.  Highlight of the day was chatting with a contemporary at the Midland Railway Society stand where we exchanged memories of the 1950s, much to the wonderment and amusement of the younger members of the society.

 

I did spend some of my funds, but only on what I felt was really needed for the next few months.  Following Tony's recommendation I had had a long email discourse with Anthony at Poppys Wood Tech.  He had fashioned a special one off builders box for me to accommodate the 9'6" wheelbase of the LMS Compound, my next project.  While at the stand he showed me their latest device, a rolling road box, a photo of which is attached.  It works really well and was easy to glue together.  Two small boxes can be used to hold bogies and ponies front and rear.  My Dobbin doesn't need them:

 

 

The company is really pleased with the success of their products (deservedly so) and it is obvious that a certain endorsement has been most beneficial.  This is a win win solution for furthering the kit building segment of our hobby - I wonder how many kit builders have been put off by the results of a poorly assembled chassis?  My first attempt on a Comet frame was banana shaped and had to be stripped back and restarted.

 

In mentioning the LMS Compound, I am waiting the delivery of a David Andrews kit later this month.  The Compound was one of my all time favourite locomotives - I first saw 1000 at Clapham, then again at York.  I missed seeing it on the main line by being overseas at the time it was running.  But I did see some of the last remaining locomotives at New Street and my prototype will be the last one to be withdrawn, 41068 (Monument Lane).

 

With quite a lot of space visible under the boiler I have been thinking about a working inside motion kit (Laurie Griffin makes various kits including one for the Compound) and had a long conversation with Laurie about the kit, my skills level and the desire to take on a challenge.  In short, I bought the kit!  I am currently of the opinion that this model will have a rigid axle configuration for the drivers but some of the front end weight will be carried by the two axle bogie, as in the real thing.  More research is required here but I have seen a sprung bogie pivot pin by Modern Outline Kits which was designed for this type of application.

 

Down the road, I will almost certainly be building a fully compensated chassis.  Again this is all about improving my skill levels, not necessarily for the benefits of springing and compensation.  To this end I had an illuminating chat with Brian Clapperton and his wife at the ABC Gears stand.  Brian has authored a technical chapter on compensation in the members' only section of the Gauge O Guild web site.  As a retired geologist who had a lot of interaction with engineers during my career I was just about able to keep up with his discourse!

[richard i]

Show and tell time, hope you forgive the indulgence.

My d10 just built.

It is a GBL body with scratch built cab, on a Pdk chassis for the loco and the tender is a GBL body on a scratch built chassis. It might have been easier to build a kit straight from the box, but this way I got round the complicated ( to me) lining of the tender and splashers.

 

 

In the background is a NRM d11 which has been worked on to bring it up to spec.

Now to get around to building the carriages for it. Barnum's don't fall out of boxes.

Richard

Edited March 7, 2016 by richard i

[gr.king]

Attractive exploitation of the GBL B-H bodyshell and tender. I won't be so pedantic as to point out the features that are not correct for a D10.

[asmay2002]

Jub 1.jpg

 

 

This is a Bachmann loco with a Comet tender

 

Looks like a 10 ton post war Duchess tender to me. 

[richard i]

Attractive exploitation of the GBL B-H bodyshell and tender. I won't be so pedantic as to point out the features that are not correct for a D10.

you are welcome to, most i hope would be around the tender and boiler height. Both of which in had reconciled myself to living with. I hope i had picked up the other obvious ones. If there are glaring errors let me know and it can re enter the works for alteration/ improvement.

Richard

[Tony Wright]

Show and tell time, hope you forgive the indulgence.

My d10 just built.

It is a GBL body with scratch built cab, on a Pdk chassis for the loco and the tender is a GBL body on a scratch built chassis. It might have been easier to build a kit straight from the box, but this way I got round the complicated ( to me) lining of the tender and splashers.

 

image.jpg

image.jpg

 

In the background is a NRM d11 which has been worked on to bring it up to spec. image.jpg

Now to get around to building the carriages for it. Barnum's don't fall out of boxes.

Richard

Your work does you great credit, Richard.

 

I forget the actual date of our first meeting, at Warley when WMRC was running Moretonhamstead. I sneaked an A4 on, much to the amusement of all. You were a new teacher and I was just giving it up, so nearly 20 years? Through those years your modelling skills have come on in leaps and bounds, despite my, at times, caustic comments. Do you remember the description of the weathering you did on a WD? The Flying T*rd, I think it was christened! 

 

But, it's those personal modelling skills which I hope all of us at WMRC encouraged you to develop. Did we teach you how to write cheques? Or how to open RTR boxes? Or become entirely-reliant on others? I hope not. But it's not the teaching that's made you the self-reliant modeller of today - it's your own drive. 'You won't get a 'yes man' is what I wrote on one reference for you to a prospective head. He didn't!

 

Speaking of self-reliance, Ken Carter with friend Graham Smith of the L&Y Society came today to 'play trains'. We had great fun - not a single derailment, failure or problem, apart from my not setting one road correctly. Ken models in EM; very well. 

 

 

He made this lever frame for his layout, to control the junction on his line. I looked at it in amazement. The levers themselves are proprietary, but all the interlocking bars have been made by hand, to his design! Whenever I think I'm getting anywhere with my own modelling, somebody brings something like this along and I then know my place - at best a moderate artisan, bodging his way through the trials and tribulations of railway modelling.

 

 

 

He also brought this Bachmann Lanky 2-4-2T. What a return to earth. All agreed that to have made this loco from a kit and finished it to the standard presented would have required far greater skills than anyone present. I was (impishly) rather pleased when it stuttered and wobbled through some of the pointwork (a tight B-T- B). The brilliance of the RTR loco aside, there was far more interest in what had been made on the railway, by myself and through the various horse-tradings. Very few RTR items were run - they're just not of the same interest to visitors, for which I'm forever glad. A personal view, I know. 

 

Another modeller making great strides is Geoff West. How he's personally improving the locos he bought of Andrew Kinsella's widow is a testament to his growing abilities. They are still Andrew's work, but the refinements and improvements he's working on are turning them into quite exceptional models. All as his homework! I'll post pictures when they're complete. 

 

 

 

By way of thanks for my help, he's provided and painted some Monty's figures for the layout, including this 1958 conversation piece between the signalmen on the M&GNR. Aren't they good? Aren't I lucky as well, where friends present me with gifts for the railway? The little signalmen now even have their own privy. It's a modified GWR lamp hut!  The 'box now has an interior as well. Next, the M&GNR signals..........................

 

I have no idea how the smily face got there in the text!

Edited March 7, 2016 by Tony Wright

[96701]

Looks like a 10 ton post war Duchess tender to me. 

It may well be. Did any Jubilees ever get one?

[96701]

All the remainder of Geoff's locos are now on eBay. Thank you Tony for giving me the confidence to put the words together to describe them.

[St Enodoc]

Ken Carter lever frame.jpg

 

He made this lever frame for his layout, to control the junction on his line. I looked at it in amazement. The levers themselves are proprietary, but all the interlocking bars have been made by hand, to his design! Whenever I think I'm getting anywhere with my own modelling, somebody brings something like this along and I then know my place - at best a moderate artisan, bodging his way through the trials and tribulations of railway modelling.

That lever frame is first class.

[Flood]

 

I have no idea how the smily face got there in the text!

It's when you type a B followed by a ). I get it all the time when talking about a Mk1 RU( B ) which ends up as RU(B).

[gr.king]

you are welcome to, most i hope would be around the tender and boiler height. Both of which in had reconciled myself to living with. I hope i had picked up the other obvious ones. If there are glaring errors let me know and it can re enter the works for alteration/ improvement.

Richard

I think you've tackled all of the key points on the loco itself, besides the obvious cab change, you've lowered the frame tops behind the smokebox and fitted a cased set of Ramsbottom safety valves in lieu of the Ross pops. I wouldn't have lost any sleep about 0.5mm difference in the pitch of the boiler had I been doing the job - far easier to leave alone. Is there any angularity at the junction of the cab sides/roof? It looks rounded off in the photos, which I'm not sure is right, with either no rainstrip or an extremely subtle one (correctly higher up) where the green meets the black. I take your point about using the ready-painted and lined tender, though weren't the D10s a bit early to have the self trimming type?

Every model has to be a compromise in the end, as we know, and deciding where to draw the line is a matter of personal preference. I still like the loco, even after nit-picking!

[corneliuslundie]

"Or how to open RTR boxes?"

 

I have to scratch build because I can't open the things these days!

 

Jonathan (tongue in cheek but the bit about the boxes is true; they are as much works of art as their contents)

[richard i]

I think you've tackled all of the key points on the loco itself, besides the obvious cab change, you've lowered the frame tops behind the smokebox and fitted a cased set of Ramsbottom safety valves in lieu of the Ross pops. I wouldn't have lost any sleep about 0.5mm difference in the pitch of the boiler had I been doing the job - far easier to leave alone. Is there any angularity at the junction of the cab sides/roof? It looks rounded off in the photos, which I'm not sure is right, with either no rainstrip or an extremely subtle one (correctly higher up) where the green meets the black. I take your point about using the ready-painted and lined tender, though weren't the D10s a bit early to have the self trimming type?Every model has to be a compromise in the end, as we know, and deciding where to draw the line is a matter of personal preference. I still like the loco, even after nit-picking!

Thanks for the advice, I will look at photos again on the rain strip. I have admired all the work you have done converting and scratchbuilding . I think you advertised gresley's 2 8 2 p10 on e bay a few years back, which curcumstances meant I could not bid on it. I always see it as the one that got away.

Richard

[The Stationmaster]

Looks to me like there's a release missing on that rather nice interlocked lever frame  (surely 1 should also be released by 2 as well as by 3?)

[glo41f]

The signalman with the token is surely on the wrong track to pass it to the oncoming train?  Did LB M&GN box have the Whittaker exchange apparatus? That would make an interesting piece of lineside kit.

 

That lever frame is magnificent.

 

Martin Long

[asmay2002]

It may well be. Did any Jubilees ever get one?

No.

[Tony Wright]

The signalman with the token is surely on the wrong track to pass it to the oncoming train?  Did LB M&GN box have the Whittaker exchange apparatus? That would make an interesting piece of lineside kit.

 

That lever frame is magnificent.

 

Martin Long

You're right Martin, but he's waiting to walk over to the train to hand over the token. Though the points are set, the board (which is yet to be installed) would still be on. Eastwards from LB Junction the line was single track as far as Saxby, so the stationary train is awaiting its token. Down trains (with locos thus fitted) used the Whittaker tablet catching apparatus which was by the side of the 'box (this is being made).

 

We have a picture of the two signalmen (or at least two railwaymen) performing the hand-over (it's under copyright), where one man is observing from the 'box and the other is handing over the token, standing in the six foot, adjacent to the Down line. Geoff and I thought of staging this, but the hander-over would be clouted by every Down train. So, it's just a little (about to happen) cameo. The figures can be moved.   

[Tony Wright]

It may well be. Did any Jubilees ever get one?

I have to say, Phil, given the context in which you're dealing with Geoff's locos, does it really matter whether the tender is right or not? I considered myself a pedant, but in this context it is not of great relevance in my view. 

 

With the greatest of respect to Geoff's memory, his building was for himself - to run on his railway. As such, there are anomalies in the locos. Has nobody commented on the wholly incorrect tender for 70047? Or the inaccurate use of maroon on the Pat? Or the fact that the Coronation is too short? One might say, 'So what?' 

 

Since the mysteries of eBay will remain forever thus to me, I don't know what offers are being bid, but I'd be surprised if many of them reached the price of their component parts. So, with regard to this, if one of the Jubs has the wrong tender then the buyer either won't care, or will subsequently change it. 

 

Were I bidding (I don't know how), I'd look on these locos as a means of obtaining some very good-running items of motive power, for a very good price, and then use them as a finishing-off/detailing exercise. Thus, obtaining something a little bit unusual, rather than the run-of-the-mill. 

[Tony Wright]

"Or how to open RTR boxes?"

 

I have to scratch build because I can't open the things these days!

 

Jonathan (tongue in cheek but the bit about the boxes is true; they are as much works of art as their contents)

Jonathan,

 

I didn't realise the irony in my statement, but your response is very true. 

 

Modern RTR locomotive packaging is so mysterious as to completely defeat me in many cases. Getting the models out is difficult (I now open every new loco box over my studio paper, so as to catch any bits which drop off!), but putting them back in is even more of a mystery, especially if any extra details have been fixed on (often, with these, the packaging has to be cut to accommodate them). 

 

After taking the product shots, I put the locos back as well as I can (expanding my vocabulary of profanity as I do it!). Any I buy for myself (not many), immediately after I've got the loco out I chuck the packaging away. I hate it. 

 

 

 

Changing the subject, though with a nod towards packaging, this Nu-Cast K2 came in that familiar tangerine and white (NE Region?) sturdy cardboard box, so familiar to '70s kit-builders. Would that the loco were as easy to build as its box was to open. 

 

I completed the motion today - what a fight! The connecting rods were too short, the cylinders didn't fit, the piston rods were too short and the motion support brackets were too high. However, after the usual dark threats, blasphemy (can an atheist blaspheme?) and vociferous outbursts, she's now just about complete and ready for me to paint her (yes, I can paint black locos). 

 

It's unlikely a K2 will ever be available RTR (what a daft thing to say), so I've suggested to Dave Ellis of SE Finecast that it might be one to consider re-introducing. I'll report on this one's building to him and I have another to put together (for which I'll use his K3 frames as a test). 

 

For anyone interested, she might well get a test run on Grantham at Nottingham over the weekend. 

 

Don't those RTR-users realise how lucky they are? Even if the boxes are much more difficult to open. 

Edited March 8, 2016 by Tony Wright

[johnarcher]

 (can an atheist blaspheme?)

Absolutely, at least believers at times have told me I've managed it.

[gr.king]

Beyond than the evident "old fashioned" thickness of the K2 frames and the potential saving of cost if only one type has to be etched rather than two, is there some other reason for trying out the K3 frames under the K2 body? No doubt they will work with simple adaptations and will look more refined, regardless of whether any profiling, cut-outs and rivets are exactly right for the K2.

[jrg1]

You're right Martin, but he's waiting to walk over to the train to hand over the token. Though the points are set, the board (which is yet to be installed) would still be on. Eastwards from LB Junction the line was single track as far as Saxby, so the stationary train is awaiting its token. Down trains (with locos thus fitted) used the Whittaker tablet catching apparatus which was by the side of the 'box (this is being made).

 

We have a picture of the two signalmen (or at least two railwaymen) performing the hand-over (it's under copyright), where one man is observing from the 'box and the other is handing over the token, standing in the six foot, adjacent to the Down line. Geoff and I thought of staging this, but the hander-over would be clouted by every Down train. So, it's just a little (about to happen) cameo. The figures can be moved.   

Interesting to read of the token hand over.  I recently visited Williamstown rail museum, where I was collared by a volunteer (Ex-VicRail steam driver) and he spent the next half hour describing the correct procedure for token changing at speed.  My main impression was that an everyday occurrence could be suddenly disastrous if the people involved were not on the ball.  

[kingfisher24]

Jonathan,

 

I didn't realise the irony in my statement, but your response is very true. 

 

Modern RTR locomotive packaging is so mysterious as to completely defeat me in many cases. Getting the models out is difficult (I now open every new loco box over my studio paper, so as to catch any bits which drop off!), but putting them back in is even more of a mystery, especially if any extra details have been fixed on (often, with these, the packaging has to be cut to accommodate them). 

 

After taking the product shots, I put the locos back as well as I can (expanding my vocabulary of profanity as I do it!). Any I buy for myself (not many), immediately after I've got the loco out I chuck the packaging away. I hate it. 

 

Nu-Cast K2 03.jpg

 

Nu-Cast K2 04.jpg

 

Changing the subject, though with a nod towards packaging, this Nu-Cast K2 came in that familiar tangerine and white (NE Region?) sturdy cardboard box, so familiar to '70s kit-builders. Would that the loco were as easy to build as its box was to open. 

 

I completed the motion today - what a fight! The connecting rods were too short, the cylinders didn't fit, the piston rods were too short and the motion support brackets were too high. However, after the usual dark threats, blasphemy (can an atheist blaspheme?) and vociferous outbursts, she's now just about complete and ready for me to paint her (yes, I can paint black locos). 

 

It's unlikely a K2 will ever be available RTR (what a daft thing to say), so I've suggested to Dave Ellis of SE Finecast that it might be one to consider re-introducing. I'll report on this one's building to him and I have another to put together (for which I'll use his K3 frames as a test). 

 

For anyone interested, she might well get a test run on Grantham at Nottingham over the weekend. 

 

Don't those RTR-users realise how lucky they are? Even if the boxes are much more difficult to open.

 

Tony

 

What a bonni looking loco. I am currently working on converting a Bachmann standard 5mt into a caprotti fitted example - which will keep me busy for the moment. Then in may little girl number three is due (more grey hairs to come). Once the conversion is done i plan on doing one of the scottish region k2's, using as many r-t-r parts as possible, together with a lot of scratch building. Personally i think that when you open a Hornby or Bachmann loco box, the contents always look lovely. But when you make something, be it from a kit or a scratch build job (or a combination of both) you always have the feeling of having achieved something. Sometimes things do not always turn out the way you would like, you swear a lot and start again. Such as when you carefully solder up some valve gear etc taking what you think is the maximum care and paying attention, then discovering you have soldered up one set the same way as the opposite side, even more four letter words ensue. This is all part of the fun. Personally if i didnt build kits or convert and kit bash things, i would just never have half of the loco's i like. For example i dont think an ex nbr j36 or caley jumbo will ever be produced. I think red snow would fall before this happened. Only with making things yourself do you get the satisfaction of knowing you made it and be proud to show it off to others.

 

For instance her a couple of examples, the c16 from a kit and the j36 which started life as a Bachmann 3f. Neither loco is likely to appear ready to run.

 

Gary