Wright writes.....

[Mallard60022]

I think that GN based A3s should only have Rossington Main top grade in their tenders as per the prototype. NE based examples and those north of the border should also only have the correct grade from the correct source. That source remains unknown to me as I am still in bed typing this without access to my library.

C. Clogs. 

[Mallard60022]

In response to Mr Clogs' post I would just like to mention that I had found a really good source of coal for LNER/ER Loco tenders at Potteric Carr Nature Reserve (just south of Doncaster, near the old Royal Mail Depot). The area of the reserve (Black Carr I think) just here used to be sidings to the west of the ECML and there was a lot more railway in the area of the reserve, up until the late 50s/early 60s, than there is now. In the sidings area it was a huge space for coal wagon storage. Sadly this area is now off limits as NR have closed the public crossings due to safety concerns and so supplies are no longer accessible without trespass.

In other parts of the Carr stock was broken up and burned and I was told by an old boy that as youngsters they had gone up there and found lots of 'stuff' such as LNER monogram cutlery  and even undamaged crockery.

Only thing other than coal that I 'found' were two ancient wagon wrecks that had come off the end of a siding in an area known as the 'Tip' and had seemingly rolled down an embankment and had been left to rot. One had split spoke wheels but sadly neither retained its works plates; long gone!

The Reserve is worth a visit as there is lots of railway interest, both operational and dismantled and plenty of infrastructure to admire. Good cafe as well!

My other sources of tender coal have come from the SR. Three Bridges to East Grinstead line and the Guildford to Christ's Hospital/Shoreham Line (both long lifted but great public rights of way/long distance footpaths/bridleways). 

Mr Clogs may not be aware that Rosso Pit site is being totally redeveloped as a modern Destribution and Industrial Park, along with housing, so if he should need some Rossington 'hards' he needs to go there post haste before it is all lost forever under tons of concrete and steel.

A. Scargill.

Edited August 11, 2016 by Mallard60022

[Mike 84C]

I await with interest, scale large and small ovoids for our loco tenders. If somebody is tempted I have one of each. Maybe 3D printing is the way?

[Mallard60022]

I await with interest, scale large and small ovoids for our loco tenders. If somebody is tempted I have one of each. Maybe 3D printing is the way?

I remember the 'Ovoids' in WR tenders. Never gave it a thought at the time. Early 60s? probably some sort of 'experiment' to cut costs?

Mike (Stationmaster) would probably know 

Phil 

[Tony Wright]

 

I don't have the faintest idea whether the coal in this O4's tender is correct, other than it's real coal - a lump placed in a strong polythene bag, then smacked with a toffee hammer; the shattered pieces being fixed in with PVA. 

 

I include this shot of a Bachmann O4 I modified/renumbered/weathered for two reasons. One, as the tiniest of tributes to a friend and one of the finest men who ever graced the hobby, the late Merl' Evans, the retired chief designer at Bachmann who has just died. It was blokes like Merl' who strove for ever higher standards in the mainstream RTR field and it's because of the likes of him that we now enjoy the really splendid out-of-the-box  locos and rolling stock we rather take for granted today. Though it might seem a paradox, the second reason is that I've now sold it (as I have some 20 other RTR locos I've fiddled with). This is not to lessen my appreciation of Merl' (I have several locos and carriages he was responsible for which I'll never part with) but because I haven't made it myself. Though this might seem a bit 'hair shirt' and fundamentalist to some, my selling of my RTR locos has been really liberating. I only ever use (with very few exceptions) locos I've made myself to haul my trains on LB, so it seemed a shame that so many fine RTR adaptations (not fine because I've adapted them, but fine because they are) never saw the light of day. Not only that, I'm liberated from being dependent on what the RTR boys can supply (however good) and also free from some really irritating aspects. Though by no means wishing to demean anyone's memory, I'm glad I'm saying goodbye to.....

 

Dreadful packaging which uses up more resources than ever. Not only that, trying to work out how to get the models out of it in the first place, identifying which and where bits have fallen off in the process; this is compounded by not being able to return the loco to its packaging without hacking away bits of the stuff after all the extra bits have been added. The kit-built locos I've made came in a sturdy cardboard box, quite happily able to accommodate the loco after it's been finished.

 

A real 'Chinese puzzle' in trying to get the lid off, either to service a loco or take pictures of its insides. Once the incomprehensibility of working out which screws (often hopeless self-tappers) have to be removed, there're the ominous cracking noises as one tries to remove a far-too-tightly-fitting body. Not only that, but the frustration of having to repair bits and pieces which have broken during the dismantling (am I that ham-fisted?). My kit-built locos have a properly-threaded 8BA screw, fore and aft, to fix the body to the chassis - nothing more. Bits don't drop off, either.

 

Then there's the need to to undo items like lubricator drives and speedometers because they're joined to both loco and chassis. Have you ever tried to re-attach Hornby's A4 lubricator drive, get the lubricators back in place after taking of a Britannia lid or refix the speedo cable? The A4s I've built all have lubricator drives, but they're self-contained on the chassis; the Brits I've built have a (dummy) lubricator drive but the lubricators are not attached to the footplate - they're attached to the chassis and fit into their slots in the footplate; and, any speedo drives I make are attached only to the chassis. 

 

What about the snake's nest of wires linking RTR locos with their tenders, brought about because of the all-powerful DCC-necessity? I find any plug-ins an absolute fag and have re-wired anything I've modified to get rid of the nonsense (my description). OK, there are those who like tender pick-ups, but I have all live-frog points and don't need them (I admit, I'm all right Jack). 

 

Finally, and this, I admit, is entirely personal, I run locos which are entirely 'mine'. How they run is up (or down) to me, what they look like is down (or up) to me, although, I admit, many have been painted by Ian Rathbone. That said, if the loco is black (even lined), in the main I've painted those myself. It's my perception that the excellence of today's RTR stuff has brought about a 'sameness' on many mainstream layouts, and certainly in many magazines. Do you remember the days when the likes of the RM used to run 'Proprietary Modeller' articles, where folk had made systems using RTR/RTP equipment? The Layouts of the Month were almost always stocked with stuff the modellers had made. That said, the clock can't be turned back, and the hobby should rejoice in many ways in what the likes of Merl' has given to everyone; at fantastic value. I still, though, much prefer to make my own - but it is a personal view. 

 

When I see what modellers have done by means of personalising their RTR locos and stock, I'm most impressed; so, this is not a criticism of what they do, it's an acknowledgement of their abilities and their different approach; providing they have a go themselves, that is. So, please keep on showing us what you personally have achieved. 

 

 

And another modified RTR loco which has now been sold-on. I've built four O2s which I use. Granted, having been involved in the development of this model and taken the time to 'improve' it, why don't I keep it? For all the reasons I've just cited. 

 

However, each to their own, and I have no wish to dictate that my approach to locos is the right one. It is, just, my (personal) approach. 

Edited August 11, 2016 by Tony Wright

[Focalplane]

Tony

 

As you know I fit DCC sound to my 7mm scale locos and like you I don't care for wires linking engines to tenders. But getting good sound into even 7mm engines is not that easy. For my 4F build I put the decoder and speaker in the tender and connected them to the loco pickups and Mashima 1833 via two twin wires.

 

So far not an ideal design, but I also like to be able to run my locos on DC test tracks so I found some TCS mini connectors in my spares box, bought several years ago in Calgary. I attached the four wires in such a way that the male/female connector one side is duplicated by a female/male connector on the other side. This means I can isolate the DCC module by connecting the engine's male plug to the engine's female socket. Presto, no wires between engine and tender when in DC mode.

 

The photos at the end of this entry show how it was done:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blog/1565/entry-17883-finishing-the-lmsbr-4f/

 

I hope this is not too far off topic.

[coachmann]

When petrol buses hit the Capital, a horse bus operator said there wouldn't be a petrol bus on the streets of London in ten years time. Maybe this is all part of human nature, but I wonder how DCC - sound stacks up in mans evolutionary progress. One of my locos was put on the track last week and it was dead. Or so I supposed until it crawled off in total silence because one of my fingers had accidently pressed the mute button F-key 1. For me, going back to silent locos would be like installing incandescent gas lighting, building a lavatory at the bottom of the garden and nailing a tin bath to the back wall.

 

I too used to curse the electric wires between loco & tender but they were there before DCC to carry current. Now when I pick up a cutely olde worlde Bachmann 'Hall' with its loose tender not attached by numerous umbilical chords, I know it will have to be hard-wired when I fit sound. Hooray for DCC Ready!  

[Mike 84C]

I was firing at 84C Banbury  in the early 60's and well remember ovoids large and small. The small ones were worse on WR engines like giving stawberries to a donkey! and clinkered like crazy with lots of acrid yellow smoke. The large ones hmm, I remember fires that looked very pink when you relieved cockneys, which suggested a rough trip down to Bordesley but "she was always a goodun mate" My driver thought running the big bar down the box to see just how bad the clinker was, was a good idea.

  On Austeritys the tender always seemed as if it wanted to be in front of the loco and the strange bumping motion put small ovoids all over the cab floor so lots of them used to get shovelled over the side or just escaped. We had a nick name for those fuels but the world is far to PC for me to go further. I thought they were compressed slack with a binder to keep thier shape.

[Focalplane]

I thought they were compressed slack with a binder to keep their shape.

 

 

Now there's a word you don't hear much these days!  Someone in my family once said that slag heaps were so named because they didn't have any slack in them.  The coalman used to get an earful after each delivery to our house.

 

In my search for good coal in southern France I saw a lot of un-mined coal that was far better than slack.

[The Stationmaster]

I remember the 'Ovoids' in WR tenders. Never gave it a thought at the time. Early 60s? probably some sort of 'experiment' to cut costs?

Mike (Stationmaster) would probably know 

Phil 

 

I understand they were cheaper than coal as there was some sort of surplus of the things.  I have never, ever, met a WR Fireman or driver who had a good word to say about them. 

[Tony Wright]

When petrol buses hit the Capital, a horse bus operator said there wouldn't be a petrol bus on the streets of London in ten years time. Maybe this is all part of human nature, but I wonder how DCC - sound stacks up in mans evolutionary progress. One of my locos was put on the track last week and it was dead. Or so I supposed until it crawled off in total silence because one of my fingers had accidently pressed the mute button F-key 1. For me, going back to silent locos would be like installing incandescent gas lighting, building a lavatory at the bottom of the garden and nailing a tin bath to the back wall.

 

I too used to curse the electric wires between loco & tender but they were there before DCC to carry current. Now when I pick up a cutely olde worlde Bachmann 'Hall' with its loose tender not attached by numerous umbilical chords, I know it will have to be hard-wired when I fit sound. Hooray for DCC Ready!  

I quite agree, Larry. 

 

If it suits you, then who am I to disagree?

 

It's just that you've described my Nan's house in (the long-demolished) Bishop Street in Chester perfectly, as it was over 60 years ago. Though not within sight, on a still evening the D11s could be heard on the CLC about a quarter of a mile away down Newton Lane, and, just down Westminster Road (about a third of a mile away) was where that thoroughfare crossed the routes out of Chester General to Manchester and Crewe. I'd gladly read again by the flickering gas light, take a walk to the bottom of the garden to relieve myself (though we had 'gozunders' at night) and have my Saturday night bath in a tin if only to see a glimpse of that magical time again. A romantic, me? Never!

[coachmann]

I quite agree, Larry. 

 

If it suits you, then who am I to disagree?

 

It's just that you've described my Nan's house in (the long-demolished) Bishop Street in Chester perfectly, as it was over 60 years ago. Though not within sight, on a still evening the D11s could be heard on the CLC about a quarter of a mile away down Newton Lane, and, just down Westminster Road (about a third of a mile away) was where that thoroughfare crossed the routes out of Chester General to Manchester and Crewe. I'd gladly read again by the flickering gas light, take a walk to the bottom of the garden to relieve myself (though we had 'gozunders' at night) and have my Saturday night bath in a tin if only to see a glimpse of that magical time again. A romantic, me? Never!

You olde romantic Tony haha..... While gas light and tin baths are history, you can still sit back and listen to a D11, courtesy a DCC soundfile. I feel it is well worth fitting one up and attaching DCC wires to one of your tracks just to see if you end up doing what I often do.....Just sitting listening to a loco going off shed and going off to pick up its duty.....  

Edited August 11, 2016 by coachmann

[Focalplane]

Ah yes, the Gazunder. My spelling, probably unique. Still talked about at the Back to Backs next to the Birmingham Hippodrome, beautifully restored and then handed over to the National Trust. The old times can certainly be recalled with nostalgia but they were far from perfect.

 

Last month I recounted my pre-teen cycle ride across the North Midlands in the late 1950s, staying at Youth Hostels with another 12/13 year old trainspotter, to my grandchildren, and their parents. I later admitted that the entire trip was clandestine, my parents being kept in the dark. How times have changed, today's parents are now chauffeurs.

[Mallard60022]

I understand they were cheaper than coal as there was some sort of surplus of the things.  I have never, ever, met a WR Fireman or driver who had a good word to say about them. 

They were a Coal Board product of the very late 50s and early 60s to attempt to reduce pollution! Made in Aberdare I believe? I think they were named Dr Bonowski Nuts!

Pulverized low grade coal mixed with an adhesive and 'pressed'. I suspect the railways were offered loads as they were not that successful domestically at the time. 

Possibly not good for loco's as they burned very quickly and very hot indeed so maybe not providing the even spread of fire required in most fireboxes?

Similar products are still available I see on searching the net (sad boy that I am).

A little interesting piece of history here.......http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1959/may/04/fuel-and-power but it does go on........

Phil

Edited August 11, 2016 by Mallard60022

[ROY@34F]

Regarding "ovoids", I'm sure they are what we called brickets, or as someone else has said, something worse than that, and quite unrepeatable to today's delicate society. 

They were terrible things anyway, the best way of ruining a fire.

 

Regards, Roy.

[great central]

We still use 'ovoids' in our multi-fuel stove. I recall reading that either Colwick or Annesley men called them eggs while not being very complimentary about their use in loco fireboxes.

From my experience with them I could readily see them not being suited to loco use. Given a decent draught they will burn hot and quite quickly but as they burn while apparently keeping their shape, if disturbed with a poker just collapse into a heap of little more than ash. As locos do tend to shake around a bit I could see the 'eggs' disintegrating fairly quickly and becoming a solid mass of ash in the bottom of the firebox with little acual heat generating ability.

[Tony Wright]

Ah yes, the Gazunder. My spelling, probably unique. Still talked about at the Back to Backs next to the Birmingham Hippodrome, beautifully restored and then handed over to the National Trust. The old times can certainly be recalled with nostalgia but they were far from perfect.

 

Last month I recounted my pre-teen cycle ride across the North Midlands in the late 1950s, staying at Youth Hostels with another 12/13 year old trainspotter, to my grandchildren, and their parents. I later admitted that the entire trip was clandestine, my parents being kept in the dark. How times have changed, today's parents are now chauffeurs.

A wonderful tale, Paul. 

 

Talking of nostalgia, times past and how things change, I've just completed Part 7 of my Cestrian's Urchin Tales for BRILL, where I tell of further trips to Shrewsbury. On one of those trips (paper round money dictated how far my brother, friends and I might venture, not always with my parents' knowledge), a mate and I decided to bunk Salop shed, the bush telegraph informing us that an un-copped King was present. We never saw it, for the foreman caught us shortly after entering the place. He aimed a boot at us and attempted to clip our ears as we fled. Just think of the ramifications of that situation today, 56 years later. The foreman would be charged with threatening behaviour and assault. Worse still, both my mate's parents and mine would be charged with negligence and child-abandonment (I was 13), both of us would be taken into care (just think about the potential abuse there) and our adolescence institutionalised, giving care/social workers a field day and much future work for child psychologists and, later, psychiatrists. We told nobody, and never did see that elusive King. 

Edited August 11, 2016 by Tony Wright

[jamie92208]

A wonderful tale, Paul. 

 

Talking of nostalgia, times past and how things change, I've just completed Part 7 of my Cestrian's Urchin Tales for BRILL, where I tell of further trips to Shrewsbury. On one of those trips (paper round money dictated how far my brother, friends and I might venture, not always with my parents' knowledge), a mate and I decided to bunk Salop shed, the bush telegraph informing us that an un-copped King was present. We never saw it, for the foreman caught us shortly after entering the place. He aimed a boot at us and attempted to clip our ears as we fled. Just think of the ramifications of that situation today, 56 years later. The foreman would be charged with threatening behaviour and assault. Worse still, both my mate's parents and mine would be charged with negligence and child-abandonment (I was 13), both of us would be taken into care (just think about the potential abuse there) and our adolescence institutionalised, giving care/social workers a field day and much future work for child psychologists and, later, psychiatrists. We told nobody, and never did see that elusive King.

The last summer that I was 13 (with an autumn birthday) I bought a North West Rover for £1.2s.6d (£1.12.5p) and had the freedom of North West England from Skipton and Southport to Gretna and Annan. I was allowed to go on my own, pedalled down to Giggleswick or Settle most mornings and spent my days roaming the rails. I stayed over with friends and relatives for 2 nights and managed to drive a fireless loco at Carr's biscuit works in Carlisle and also managed to get a legal tour of Kingmoor, as my mum's friend knew the shedmaster. All this totally on my own. Social Services would certainly have been calling on my parents if I did that today.

 

Jamie

[Focalplane]

Never tried Shrewsbury which I now regret, for who knows what ex-Crewe Works loco might have been there?

 

Did do 5A and 84A, and was caught at Stafford Road. What's your name, sonny? John Smith sir. Get out of 'ere.

 

Was not allowed near Saltley for good reason I suppose, a rough area in those days. Probably more so these days.

[St Enodoc]

Now there's a word you don't hear much these days!  Someone in my family once said that slag heaps were so named because they didn't have any slack in them.  The coalman used to get an earful after each delivery to our house.

 

In my search for good coal in southern France I saw a lot of un-mined coal that was far better than slack.

In the immortal words of Ken Dodd: "Don't go down the mine Granny, there's enough slack in your knickers already".

[Tony Wright]

Never tried Shrewsbury which I now regret, for who knows what ex-Crewe Works loco might have been there?

 

Did do 5A and 84A, and was caught at Stafford Road. What's your name, sonny? John Smith sir. Get out of 'ere.

 

Was not allowed near Saltley for good reason I suppose, a rough area in those days. Probably more so these days.

I went round 5A dozens of times, but always with a permit. Otherwise, the place was a fortress crawling with railway police. Of those without permits, the brave entered by using the concrete footbridge from the station (which I never saw any railwayman use), the even braver tried the passage between the shed and the street and the just plain daft crossed over the running lines in full view of the north 'box. Many were nabbed, but the prizes inside, particularly on a Sunday, made the risk worthwhile. 5B was much easier, taking the cinder path from Gresty Lane, there were acres of space to escape from officialdom. 6A was usually easy, as was 6B, and both the sheds at Wrexham were easy to bunk.

 

I usually found, when further afield, asking for permission to go round a shed with a non-local accent often brought success. On one occasion, I asked the foreman at Darlington if I could go round 51A. 'Of course', said he, 'but come with me first'. He took my brother and me straight to the turntable where COLUMBO (a cop!) was simmering. Nearby was LEMBERG (already seen). Both were immaculate and he was clearly proud of his standby Pacifics. 'They're being withdrawn' he said with a melancholy air. 'The diesels are more reliable, so there's less of a need'. A shabby MINORU passed the shed at the same time, which summed up the mood. A year later KENILWORTH was there, and 60010 sans chimney. I never went back.

 

Having a Cestrian accent also allowed me into Lincoln shed, both at Retford and, further afield, Salisbury and Bournemouth. I should have tried more.   

[Focalplane]

My 5A experience was interesting and illegal. Two of us found two other kids digging under the iron railings round the back. We joined in and soon wriggled under. Dodging railwaymen whenever possible we copped a good number of Semis and other named locos but were then seen and had to run. Just as we passed 46235 City of Brum it let off steam and we dodged behind it, whooping out loud with glee as it was a cop (to be seen many times later in the Museum of Science and Industry). And made our way back to the hole under the railings.

 

We did write off for Works permits and then would collar an adult to lead a party of urchins gathered at the footbridge.

 

Happy days, never yo be relived by generations to come. Personally i don't care for heritage railways that much, though I do appreciate all the work that the various societies do.

[coachmann]

A friend and I went into the field at the side of Lees (Oldham) shed around 1954 so see if we could see his fireman uncle. "He'll let us look around", but instead he told us to fukc off. I had just gone 18 when I eventually walked down the line of engines into that shed. If you have steam in the blood, that is when you really know it. I don't think I have ever wanted a job so much, in fact I gave up a regular night job playing in a rock group for it.

Edited August 12, 2016 by coachmann

[Anglian]

On the subject of rubbish coal I was lucky enough to have a session on the footplate of Pete Waterman's MR 4F. The cab was authentically grubby and just about the first thing the driver said to me was 'you'll be shovelling the slurry they've given us for coal today.' That slightly terse assessment made me feel as if I really was back in the 50's and beginning a career on the footplate. The firemen had already dampened down the coal, as there was so much dust with it,  – we literally were shovelling lumpy porridge.

 

On the subject of personalising models I think the line is drawn by each individual based on their skills and aptitudes. We could perhaps rightly expect that LB would only be populated by locomotives Tony's has built himself, given that he is an expert in doing so.

 

For me, at this point in time, I could only ever use model trees and buildings I'd made along with the faux fur grass techniques that suit my current abilities and aptitudes. I'd suggest that one of the great things about the hobby is that it's broad enough for all folks to be able to specialise, if they so wish, be it with an engineering or artistic bias. The best I think I can ever hope for will be modified or enhanced R-T-R locomotives and I'm happy with that but they shall be running past trees modelled on real examples as I enjoy making them so much.

Edited August 12, 2016 by Anglian

[Tony Wright]

On the subject of rubbish coal I was lucky enough to have a session on the footplate of Pete Waterman's MR 4F. The cab was authentically grubby and just about the first thing the driver said to me was 'you'll be shovelling the slurry they've given us for coal today.' That slightly terse assessment made me feel as if I really was back in the 50's and beginning a career on the footplate. The firemen had already dampened down the coal, as there was so much dust with it,  – we literally were shovelling lumpy porridge.

 

On the subject of personalising models I think the line is drawn by each individual based on their skills and aptitudes. We could perhaps rightly expect that LB would only be populated by locomotives Tony's has built himself, given that he is an expert in doing so.

 

For me, at this point in time, I could only ever use model trees and buildings I'd made along with the faux fur grass techniques that suit my current abilities and aptitudes. I'd suggest that one of the great things about the hobby is that it's broad enough for all folks to be able to specialise, if they so wish, be it with an engineering or artistic bias. The best I think I can ever hope for will be modified or enhanced R-T-R locomotives and I'm happy with that but they shall be running past trees modelled on real examples as I enjoy making them so much.

I'm always a little wary of being called an expert with regard to my building locos. It's been my privilege down the years to photograph the work of the top loco builders in all scales and gauges. My level of expertise doesn't warrant my inclusion among those. 

 

You're quite right about a line (or standard?) being drawn (established?) with regard to each individual based on their skills and aptitude. I suppose it's a testament to the current high standards achieved by the RTR boys that the hobby is now so egalitarian with regard to what one can own.

 

 

Who would have thought that RTR locos as good as this would have been available to all, just a few years ago? I've just photographed this new Bachmann A1 for BRM, and have been invited to pen a few notes. It's not perfect; the return crank leans the wrong way on this side, the footplate and tender soleplate don't quite line up and the bogie wheels aren't good (though they look better in lined green than in black). It represents the loco as built, with stovepipe chimney, no nameplate and curly '6's (60119 was the only A1 which never got its front numberplate corrected). It's the livery which particularly impresses me. I've seen professionally-painted LNER green locos which don't look as good as this. What does it cost? I don't know, but around £150.00? In the pre-egalitarian days, such an A1, built by an expert from a DJH kit and painted by an expert painter would cost the equivalent of over four figures today.

 

Today, what was once only the realm of the skilled or those with disposable income is now available to the majority. It's how the hobby has moved forward, but it's not for me; not that that really matters in the grand scheme of things.

 

Merl Evans was most responsible for Bachmann locos of this quality. Those who now own them should pay tribute to his memory.  

Edited August 12, 2016 by Tony Wright