Wright writes.....

[Brinkly]

You are a man of many talents Phil!

 

Also, lovely coaches Tony. I'm not an LNER man myself, but can appreciate excellent models and workmanship.

 

Kind regards,

 

Nick

[jrg1]

Just checking my records, it seems the remaining triplets were withdrawn during 10/60-12/60.  I presume this was due to Mark 1 vehicles supplanting them.  Thanks for the information-I would like to build a set, having seen them at Lincoln during diversions.

[Mallard60022]

Just checking my records, it seems the remaining triplets were withdrawn during 10/60-12/60.  I presume this was due to Mark 1 vehicles supplanting them.  Thanks for the information-I would like to build a set, having seen them at Lincoln during diversions.

The Comet build is actually a pleasure jrg1. Only one of their kits that has slotted solebars ready for the neat little step-boards. The roofs are plastic so that's an easy job too.

One or two 'additional' detail parts from other sources and a little fettle here and there, some Mike Trice/Shapeways vents and it gives you  a very tidy set as per Tony's (above).  Go for it immediately 

Phil

[landscapes]

I well remember all the hoo-hah when the new Hornby Gresley coaches appeared, square-bottomed bodies and over-width chassis, many modellers were very disappointed. I didn't buy any at the time, preferring to carry on with my Kirk kits, with the odd Comet thrown in. The models do have many redeeming qualities, picking Tony W's brains awhile back, he said one of the best combinations was etched sides on a modified Hornby shell, which of course is one way of trying to cover the huge number of diagram variations, within this style of coach. However the handful of types modelled by Hornby are still attractive in themselves, was there a way of improving the body profile, coupled with the Lazza 2008 chassis narrowing technique? 

   With the body off, the first task is to remove the glazing, bit tricky this, some are glued more heavily than others. Then I cut slots up to waist height on the ends, the body re-profiling was achieved using broad smooth jaw pliers, applied at every vertical stanchion, first at the waist, then the middle of the lower side, then nearer the bottom. I know full well about the incorrect middle beading height, but it's not so obvious on the maroon livery, so was left as a compromise, which saves repainting, although I did spray on some thinned gloss varnish, to improve the drab finish. For crimson and cream livery the offending beading strip has to be replaced, since the interruption to the livery is plainly obvious, and a repaint is necessary anyway. I agree with Larry, these coaches have too many fine details delicately stuck on, if you buy secondhand donors, they nearly always have bits missing. Of course you could rebuild all your Gresleys with etched sides, but for people who just want a few to mix in with other types, this could be an easier solution?

                                                      Cheers, Brian.

 

CIMG5310.JPG

CIMG5311.JPG

CIMG5320.JPG

CIMG5322.JPG

CIMG5330.JPG

CIMG5323.JPG

 

Hi Very nice coaches, does anyone know if it's possible to purchase the D handles separately like the ones in these photos, and if so where they can be purchased from?

 

Regards

 

David

Edited August 2, 2016 by landscapes

[grob1234]

Hi Very nice coaches, does anyone know if it's possible to purchase the D handles separately like the ones in these photos, and if so where they can be purchased from?

 

Regards

 

David

Maybe these?

 

http://www.dartcastings.co.uk/mjt/2816.php

[jwealleans]

Certainly my handles of choice.

[cctransuk]

.... or DP45-31 Set of BR Mk1 Etched Coach Door/Grab Handles and Hinges etc. @ http://www.shawplan.com/fittings.htm .

 

This is the old PC etch.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Mallard60022]

If you are really careful you can usually get most of the Hornby handles out of the sides and also, even the Commodes. First try 'poking' them out from the rear! If that doesn't work then more 'force' required. However, the MJT ones are probably easier to use and fit the comet half etch hole offerings IIRC.

Phil

[thegreenhowards]

I must say I've leaned a great deal over the last couple of days with regard to 'bulbs' and solebar profiles. Ignorance 'was' bliss, as down the decades I've just used whatever was provided in kits or the appropriate flat 'U'-shaped angle, turned on its side. 

 

Returning to the subject of Gresley catering triplets, the following pictures show the ones I run on my own layout. 

 

Comet catering triplet.jpg

 

I built this from the Comet kit when it first came out, and it was reviewed in BRM. I note now I've numbered it as a 1928-built example, which could well be wrong because didn't they have recessed doors in the open cars? If so, nobody has ever commented, either after reading the magazine or seeing it at dozens of shows. The HD bogies are from old PC kits. Odd, that, because PC were the opposite of Comet, making just the HD bogie, whatever it went underneath. 

 

Silver Jubilee catering triplet.jpg

 

This is the ex-Silver Jubilee catering triplet, a report on which I wrote for BRM last year (or the year before). The 8' 6" HD bogies on this are from MJT and the 10' HD ones those provided in the kit (though beefed up with metal strips). This is definitely NOT a kit for the faint-hearted.

 

1938 Scotsman triplet.jpg

 

The 1938 ex-Scotsman catering triplet, being built for service in the Northumbrian. The blank rear wall of the bar can just be discerned at the nearer end (in the First Class car - I said Second yesterday; my apologies). Again, the 8' 6" HD bogies under this are PC, and the 10' HD ones MJT. John Houlden built most of this set for me from Rupert Brown, Kirk, Comet and MJT parts (as part of our horse-trading agreement) and I made it run. I've yet to fit the door furniture, then paint, line, letter and glaze it; I've also got to make the interiors. 

 

Gresley RK.jpg

 

This is the Gresley Hornby/MJT conversion into an RF, mentioned earlier. The HD bogies on this are from BSL (another case of a manufacturer only making one sort of Gresley bogie). Apart from adding extra detail to the underframe, I didn't alter its width. From this sort of angle, I don't think it's too noticeable, especially running as a 'layout coach' in a 'layout train' on, obviously, a layout. By using transfer lining (I'm not at all in Larry G's class), the branding is squashed in a bit, but it does fit, just. If the branding goes over the central beading rib, the effect is poor. The same 'squeezing up' is apparent on the Comet triplet set, though, with care, it does fit. I've yet to alter this car's ownership to 'Sc'. 

 

Above all else, as mentioned, every carriage/set I make is designed to run on a layout; not as big as Carlisle or Retford, but still a fair size. They're also made to run in scale-length trains, not just to be viewed as individual cars. To take that latter approach would require carriage-building capabilities beyond mine; more the province of Larry Goddard or Andrew Teale. 

 

What's most important to me, as I've said many times, is I've made them in the main, I've painted and finished them and I can tell their stories to visitors.

An inspirational set of coaches Tony. Thanks for sharing. I'm currently finishing off a Kirk triplet. Does anyone know whether that is accurate for 1924 or 1928 (or neither!)? The instructions seem to imply both can be modelled.

 

Thanks

 

Andy

[Tony Wright]

An inspirational set of coaches Tony. Thanks for sharing. I'm currently finishing off a Kirk triplet. Does anyone know whether that is accurate for 1924 or 1928 (or neither!)? The instructions seem to imply both can be modelled.

 

Thanks

 

Andy

Andy,

 

I think the Kirk triplet set represents more nearly the 1924-built cars. I built one too many years ago now to remember. One thing I did get wrong was to use the angle underframe supplied. All these earlier triplets had turnbuckle trussing. 

 

I also built a PC one, and turned it into a 1928-built sort (if I recall correctly), but, again, got the trussing wrong. 

 

For my money, the Comet set is really excellent for a 1924 (possibly '28?) catering trio. All one has to do is substitute HD bogies and you're away. Though also excellent, the Rupert Brown '38 Scotsman triplets require a fair bit more in the way of sourcing other parts. That achieved, they can make up into splendid models. 

 

Above all else, you're making the models yourself, and nothing can take away from that. 

 

By the way, did you sort out the shorting on that 'very expensive' V2 I sold you? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Mallard60022]

Here is that Conversion I was mumbling on about.

D144. It should have inset doors but it was a D10a etch so I've tried to make the door jam look inset with a scriber.................

Hornby Donor. MJT sides. Hornby bogies with MJT HD sides attached (both filed down first). Mike Trice new 'Kitchen' Vents and other roof items from the 'box of bits + recycled Hornby torp vents.

The new owner finishes it and tidies up the paint job. (Glad I don't have to do all that, especially the decals).

I'm not 100% happy with this job as I didn't make a very good job of the sides, but I hope it will be OK when it is 'lost amongst the stock' on the layout. If not it can always be scrapped and redone. 

Phil 

Edited August 2, 2016 by Mallard60022

[Headstock]

Here is that Conversion I was mumbling on about.

D144. It should have inset doors but it was a D10a etch so I've tried to make the door jam look inset with a scriber.................

Img_0353.jpg

Img_0351.jpg

Hornby Donor. MJT sides. Hornby bogies with MJT HD sides attached (both filed down first). Mike Trice new 'Kitchen' Vents and other roof items from the 'box of bits + recycled Hornby torp vents.

The new owner finishes it and tidies up the paint job. (Glad I don't have to do all that, especially the decals).

I'm not 100% happy with this job as I didn't make a very good job of the sides, but I hope it will be OK when it is 'lost amongst the stock' on the layout. If not it can always be scrapped and redone. 

Phil 

 

Scrap and redo, are you mad ? Save Phils 'bulbs'.

[Mallard60022]

Scrap and redo, are you mad ? Save Phils 'bulbs'.

Mostly........however, this item has to sit with Larry G's, Tony W's and other proper job artists' efforts. If it looks comfortable once in service then it will be OK but it will look a lot better once the new owner has had a go at it.

Thanks though and me bulbs are bloomin'........

If I CBA I shall have a go at a coach for myself tomorrow. Comet, LNER/BRER and almost complete, it needs a coat of paint as well.

P

[Tony Wright]

Mostly........however, this item has to sit with Larry G's, Tony W's and other proper job artists' efforts. If it looks comfortable once in service then it will be OK but it will look a lot better once the new owner has had a go at it.

Thanks though and me bulbs are bloomin'........

If I CBA I shall have a go at a coach for myself tomorrow. Comet, LNER/BRER and almost complete, it needs a coat of paint as well.

P

It's nice of you to cite me in the same sentence as Larry, Phil, but I think he's in a much higher league than I am with regard to building carriages. Indeed, I know it. 

 

As you know well, mine have a 'sketch-book' approach to their building/modifying, and, I hope, look the part in a layout environment. Larry's do as well, but they also stand much closer scrutiny, and that is the big difference. Still, as I keep on stating, nothing can take away from the satisfaction (qualified) of having done things for yourself. To a very high standard, I might add. 

 

Finally, the sale of my modified RTR locos has already begun. Yesterday, a Hornby modified A3 found a new owner; a very happy new owner. With replacement bogie wheels, renumbering/renaming, a crew, lamps, weathering, real coal in the tender and the loco close-coupled to its tender, it certainly looked the part. It's good to know that it'll be used now, having been in a drawer for over two years. As I say, I never use the RTR locos these days.

[coachmann]

Kind words Tony. In my case it starts with pencil notes and sketches to show the CAD designer what I am aiming for, and so if a particular coach is a pain in the butt to put together, I only have myself to blame. I'm now back earning a crust and in the following few weeks I will probably build more coaches than many railway modellers build in a year. With this kind of concentrated effort it is inevitable that one becomes adept at coach production. One point though, I have always found LMS coaches the simplest to produce and so LNER and GWR coaches will only be built for myself. As for building later Gresley diners with recessed doors and clipper sides; no thanks haha. If I were designing such vehicles, i would etch the sides within a picture frame to ensure everything is kept square until the side is complete with recessed doors. Only then would I remove the side from the frame.

Edited August 3, 2016 by coachmann

[thegreenhowards]

Andy,

 

I think the Kirk triplet set represents more nearly the 1924-built cars. I built one too many years ago now to remember. One thing I did get wrong was to use the angle underframe supplied. All these earlier triplets had turnbuckle trussing. 

 

I also built a PC one, and turned it into a 1928-built sort (if I recall correctly), but, again, got the trussing wrong. 

 

For my money, the Comet set is really excellent for a 1924 (possibly '28?) catering trio. All one has to do is substitute HD bogies and you're away. Though also excellent, the Rupert Brown '38 Scotsman triplets require a fair bit more in the way of sourcing other parts. That achieved, they can make up into splendid models. 

 

Above all else, you're making the models yourself, and nothing can take away from that. 

 

By the way, did you sort out the shorting on that 'very expensive' V2 I sold you? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.

 

Hi Tony,

 

Yes I've sorted the V2 thanks. It turned out to be caused by the white metal at the top (rather than the side) of the Cartezi truck which needed 2-3mm filed off. I attach a crude iPad photo which I rushed out this morning before work! If you can make out the insulating tape, that is where I needed to file it back.

 

I've also bought the two decoder for the V2 and A2/1, so I will be in contact for a bit of tuition on how to fit a decider to loco with an American style pick ups once I've got the kids back to school (if that's still OK).

[Mallard60022]

It's nice of you to cite me in the same sentence as Larry, Phil, but I think he's in a much higher league than I am with regard to building carriages. Indeed, I know it. 

 

As you know well, mine have a 'sketch-book' approach to their building/modifying, and, I hope, look the part in a layout environment. Larry's do as well, but they also stand much closer scrutiny, and that is the big difference. Still, as I keep on stating, nothing can take away from the satisfaction (qualified) of having done things for yourself. To a very high standard, I might add. 

 

Finally, the sale of my modified RTR locos has already begun. Yesterday, a Hornby modified A3 found a new owner; a very happy new owner. With replacement bogie wheels, renumbering/renaming, a crew, lamps, weathering, real coal in the tender and the loco close-coupled to its tender, it certainly looked the part. It's good to know that it'll be used now, having been in a drawer for over two years. As I say, I never use the RTR locos these days.

By chance do you have 'Blue Peter' for sale?

Phil

[Headstock]

It's nice of you to cite me in the same sentence as Larry, Phil, but I think he's in a much higher league than I am with regard to building carriages. Indeed, I know it. 

 

As you know well, mine have a 'sketch-book' approach to their building/modifying, and, I hope, look the part in a layout environment. Larry's do as well, but they also stand much closer scrutiny, and that is the big difference. Still, as I keep on stating, nothing can take away from the satisfaction (qualified) of having done things for yourself. To a very high standard, I might add. 

 

 

Hi Tony,

 

It was nice of you to mention my name alongside MR Goddard's, but I too must defer to the higher power.

 

Your carriages are rather magnificent, the triplets really are the Tyrannosaurus rex of the catering world. We don't have them over on the GC although a number of trains ran with three individual carriages providing Catering or seats for the purpose of meals. The most common being FO / RF / TO in the Manchester expresses, Semi FO / RF / RTP in the South Yorkshireman and FO / RF / RTP in the Master Cutler. As regards carriage - building capabilities, looking at your Comet build, I can't see anything that I could have done better. I would definitely have used different roofs and ends on the kit, but that is a matter of standardization and aesthetic choice rather than one of any special capabilities.

 

I've never actually painted a Maroon Gresley carriage so I'm slightly intrigued about how to get the lining on the beading (I hope that is where it should go?) using a method that is open to anybody. I assume that transfers are a bit of a b****r in this respect, I have found Comets beading is somewhat chunkier than others but I was wondering if painting the beading black and then placing a yellow transfer line either side of it would achieve an effect that most people could do?

[coachmann]

By chance do you have 'Blue Peter' for sale?

Phil

A RTR list would be handy......

[coachmann]

I've never actually painted a Maroon Gresley carriage so I'm slightly intrigued about how to get the lining on the beading (I hope that is where it should go?) using a method that is open to anybody. I assume that transfers are a bit of a b****r in this respect, I have found Comets beading is somewhat chunkier than others but I was wondering if painting the beading black and then placing a yellow transfer line either side of it would achieve an effect that most people could do?

Putting lining where it went either side of the beading on the real Gresley wooden coach is virtually impossible on 4mm scale models even if the beading was etched to scale width, which it often isn't. However the overscale beading actually assists! Using a draughtsman's ruling pen, i run a cellulose black line freehand along the top edge of the beading just below the windows. When hard, I rule a yellow line above the black line and another on the beading below the black line. This way the lining is closer to scale when viewed side-on....

 

Edited August 3, 2016 by coachmann

[Headstock]

Putting lining where it went either side of the beading on the real Gresley wooden coach is virtually impossible on 4mm scale models even if the beading was etched to scale width, which it often isn't. However the overscale beading actually assists! Using a draughtsman's ruling pen, i run a cellulose black line freehand along the top edge of the beading just below the windows. When hard, I rule a yellow line above the black line and another on the beading below the black line. This way the lining is closer to scale when viewed side-on....

 

WEB Gresley maroon lining B.jpg

WEB Gresley maroon lining.jpg

 

Very smart, I like your seats too.

[Clive Mortimore]

edited

 

Finally, the sale of my modified RTR locos has already begun. Yesterday, a Hornby modified A3 found a new owner; a very happy new owner. With replacement bogie wheels, renumbering/renaming, a crew, lamps, weathering, real coal in the tender and the loco close-coupled to its tender, it certainly looked the part. It's good to know that it'll be used now, having been in a drawer for over two years. As I say, I never use the RTR locos these days.

 

 

By chance do you have 'Blue Peter' for sale?

Phil

Hi Tony

 

There is always one

 

Anyhow Mr Drake

 

Wot do U want with Blue Peter? Shouldn't you be asking Mr Wright if he has a push-pull fitted Ivatt class 2 tank for your Axminster layout?

Edited August 3, 2016 by Clive Mortimore

[jwealleans]

the triplets really are the Tyrannosaurus Rex of the catering world

 

I'm sorry but I must respectfully disagree.

 

 

(Tony's photo)

Edited July 12, 2018 by jwealleans

[cctransuk]

I've never actually painted a Maroon Gresley carriage so I'm slightly intrigued about how to get the lining on the beading (I hope that is where it should go?) using a method that is open to anybody. I assume that transfers are a bit of a b****r in this respect, I have found Comets beading is somewhat chunkier than others but I was wondering if painting the beading black and then placing a yellow transfer line either side of it would achieve an effect that most people could do?

 

Why not try dead-scale transfer lining? (Tony is about to)!

 

 

See Sheet BL28 at http://www.cctrans.org.uk/products.htm .

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Headstock]

I'm sorry but I must respectfully disagree.

 

 

(Tony's photo)

 

You can't count that unless they are serving pork pies in the brake compartments. Is it Great Western? Seriously do you have a bigger file size so that I can ogle at it more.