N15class Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 One of the problems with taking on an 'Ebay Rescue' is that you are taking a chance that all the bits are present. If the item is sold as 'unopened' then you are on fairly firm ground that that is what you will get. If it is clearly 'not as described', then you can usually get your money back. However the phrase 'It has been started but I think all the bits are there!' should make you cautious, especially if you are a novice kit builder. With this kit I took the chance that it was complete as the price, which included the wheels and RG7 motor, was, I considered, compensation for any bits that I may need to acquire. Yesterday I discovered that the sub frames, for the rear trailing wheel outside bearings, was missing. They had been removed from the fret but were not loose in the box, as some of the other etches that had been. My only option here was to fabricate new ones from N/S sheet. Fortunately there is a GA type drawing included in the instructions, to an odd scale. I was able to work out that I needed to reduce it to 84% of the original and my PC printer was able to do that for me. This next bit is for members who are new to kit building or want to make a start at scratch building. Having produced the correct scale drawing I marked out the outline of the sub frame but then had to adjust it to suit the axle box/spring casting that was included in the kit. I then cut two pieces of 0.015thou n/s sheet to size and soldered them together along the edges. Next I cut out the drawing of the frames and, using double sided tape, stuck them to the laminated sheet. I then fretted out the shape using the piercing saw and the drawing as my guide. Once cut out the paper template was removed and the two sheets separated again and cleaned up. Once the new sub frames were cleaned up I soldered on the castings as it was easier to do this in the flat. The frames were then offered up to the model and any adjustments made to ensure that the axle lined up with the bearing before soldering to the underneath of the footplate. The instructions call for the sub frame to be attached to the side of the main frames but that would make it very difficult to get the rear wheels in and out. ' Two pieces of 0.015thou N/S sheet soldered together. The sheets were cut using a 'skrawker' and snapping the metal to give a nice, crisp, straight edge P1080265.JPG The outline drawing of the sub frame cut from the reduced scale drawing. P1080266.JPG Double sided tape attached to the N/S sheet. P1080267.JPG Attaching the paper template to the sheets with the double sided tape P1080268.JPG Firmly stuck down P1080269.JPG Fretting out the required shape using the template as a guide (always cut to the outside of the finished line and file to the final shape). I have, again, using double sided tape (carpet tape), stuck some wet and dry sheet to the face of my cutting table to give some additional 'grip' when fretting out. P1080270.JPG One part fretted out. P1080271.JPG Final fretted out shape of the sub frame P1080272.JPG Two holes were drilled for the gap below the axle box. The saw was partly dismantled and one end of the blade was fed through one of the holes and the metal between them was cut away. P1080273.JPG P1080274.JPG The spring axle box casting was soldered to the sub-frame 'in the flat' before fitting to the model P1080276.JPG The finished article! P1080277.JPG Sandy Very nice tutorial it is easy to forget that some may not know the basics. I prefer to have the frames attached to the body unless the trailing wheela can be dropped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Harper Posted September 11, 2014 Author Share Posted September 11, 2014 I agree with you Peter. I thought I would go through the process as it was a relatively simple scratch building job, and easy to explain and photograph, without over complicating it. Regards Sandy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Harper Posted September 11, 2014 Author Share Posted September 11, 2014 I've just started on the 4mm version of this kit. Interestingly, the instructions mention attaching the outside frames either to the main frames or to the bottom of the running plate, though it's clear that Malcolm preferred the latter for the very reason you mention. Perhaps the instructions have been updated since your's were printed. Nick Hi Nick I must admit to being guilty of 'scanning' the instructions, and particularly this one, as parts of it have been built out of sequence to the instructions, so I need to keep shuttling back and forth. Very frustrating! I looked at the exploded drawing of the chassis and it shows the sub-frame as being attached to the side frame. In the mass of written stuff, it probably does give an option somewhere. Regards Sandy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKR Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 Just wanted to say thanks Sandy. Postings such as yours, Jazz, N15, Ozzyo & Sej etc., are a great incentive to those of us who are new to kit building. Often it's just knowing where to start and a walk through is worth a thousand words Best wishes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Harper Posted September 13, 2014 Author Share Posted September 13, 2014 (edited) You're welcome EKR and thank you. I, we, (I think I speak for all those you mention) enjoy talking about what we do because we enjoy that part of the hobby also. I'm glad you, and other readers, enjoy some of the rubbish we spout! :¬) Any questions you want answering, please feel free to PM me if you don't want to ask on the form? Cheers Sandy Edited September 13, 2014 by Sandy Harper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 I have to say that it is always nice to be of help to others. I wish the net had of been around when I was starting out. I never got on with clubs, I think I am selfish when it comes to railways I want to model my thing and as for all that compromise on scale, gauge, RTR etc. I would be very frustrated. So I did my learning on my own. As Sandy says all questions welcome either on here or by PM. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Harper Posted September 24, 2014 Author Share Posted September 24, 2014 A brief update. The E-Bay rescue GWR 517 is finished and is now at the grit blasters. The Skye bogie has returned from the grit blasting and is ready for me to start throwing some paint at it! I have been a little distracted recently by making some track and pointwork for our groups new exhibition layout. Here is the 517 having been cleaned before departure. Regards Sandy 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 ...Here is the 517 having been cleaned before departure. Looking good. Will you add the steps later? Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Harper Posted September 24, 2014 Author Share Posted September 24, 2014 Well spotted Nick. You caught me out. The photo was taken a day or two ago and the steps, along with all the gubbins on the rear of the bunker, were added after!! Regards Sandy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted September 24, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 24, 2014 One of the problems with taking on an 'Ebay Rescue' is that you are taking a chance that all the bits are present. If the item is sold as 'unopened' then you are on fairly firm ground that that is what you will get. If it is clearly 'not as described', then you can usually get your money back. However the phrase 'It has been started but I think all the bits are there!' should make you cautious, especially if you are a novice kit builder. With this kit I took the chance that it was complete as the price, which included the wheels and RG7 motor, was, I considered, compensation for any bits that I may need to acquire.Yesterday I discovered that the sub frames, for the rear trailing wheel outside bearings, was missing. They had been removed from the fret but were not loose in the box, as some of the other etches that had been. My only option here was to fabricate new ones from N/S sheet.Fortunately there is a GA type drawing included in the instructions, to an odd scale. I was able to work out that I needed to reduce it to 84% of the original and my PC printer was able to do that for me.This next bit is for members who are new to kit building or want to make a start at scratch building.Having produced the correct scale drawing I marked out the outline of the sub frame but then had to adjust it to suit the axle box/spring casting that was included in the kit.I then cut two pieces of 0.015thou n/s sheet to size and soldered them together along the edges. Next I cut out the drawing of the frames and, using double sided tape, stuck them to the laminated sheet.I then fretted out the shape using the piercing saw and the drawing as my guide. Once cut out the paper template was removed and the two sheets separated again and cleaned up.Once the new sub frames were cleaned up I soldered on the castings as it was easier to do this in the flat.The frames were then offered up to the model and any adjustments made to ensure that the axle lined up with the bearing before soldering to the underneath of the footplate. The instructions call for the sub frame to be attached to the side of the main frames but that would make it very difficult to get the rear wheels in and out.'Two pieces of 0.015thou N/S sheet soldered together. The sheets were cut using a 'skrawker' and snapping the metal to give a nice, crisp, straight edgeP1080265.JPGThe outline drawing of the sub frame cut from the reduced scale drawing.P1080266.JPGDouble sided tape attached to the N/S sheet.P1080267.JPGAttaching the paper template to the sheets with the double sided tapeP1080268.JPGFirmly stuck downP1080269.JPGFretting out the required shape using the template as a guide (always cut to the outside of the finished line and file to the final shape). I have, again, using double sided tape (carpet tape), stuck some wet and dry sheet to the face of my cutting table to give some additional 'grip' when fretting out.P1080270.JPGOne part fretted out.P1080271.JPGFinal fretted out shape of the sub frameP1080272.JPGTwo holes were drilled for the gap below the axle box. The saw was partly dismantled and one end of the blade was fed through one of the holes and the metal between them was cut away.P1080273.JPGP1080274.JPGThe spring axle box casting was soldered to the sub-frame 'in the flat' before fitting to the modelP1080276.JPGThe finished article!P1080277.JPGSandy Very useful step by step, thanks Sandy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnaby Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 Yup great little sequence Sandy, it looks beautiful. Looking forward to the "Telford mystery locomotive" and you breathing life back into it. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Harper Posted September 24, 2014 Author Share Posted September 24, 2014 Yup great little sequence Sandy, it looks beautiful. Looking forward to the "Telford mystery locomotive" and you breathing life back into it. Regards Don't hold your breath! it may be some time!! Regards Sandy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Harper Posted October 7, 2014 Author Share Posted October 7, 2014 (edited) Next in the workshop is a Midland '483' class. This is the forerunner of the Midland 2P. It is a JM kit with a Johnson tender that I picked up on the B&B at Telford a couple of years ago. The kit was 'untouched' and I intend to use it as a demo model for a series of basic kit building workshops that I will be doing at the Borders MRC monthly test track meeting in Llandrinio Village Hall (Between Oswestry and Welshpool) starting on Tuesday the 14th October. The sessions will start at 12.30pm and last about an hour followed by a 'loco' fault finding clinic. All welcome. The first session will concentrate on setting up the coupling rods and the side frames to achieve a free running chassis. This photo shows the frames having the etching process 'cusp' removed. The pink arrow shows the area before filing off, with the filed portion to the right of it. The next photo shows the main parts of the chassis that need to be addressed, with cusp removal from the frame edges and also the mating faces of the spacers where they butt up against the inside of the frames. The axle, with the motor /gearbox attached, is going to be on the rear axle and the 'substantial' bearings for this have been soldered in. The front axle will have an element of springing and the bearings are still loose and will be dealt with later. More to follow Regards Sandy Edited October 7, 2014 by Sandy Harper 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnaby Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Excellent stuff Sandy and one I'll follow with great interest. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Harper Posted October 8, 2014 Author Share Posted October 8, 2014 Thanks Barnaby and the rest of the 'likes'. I use a Master Chassis jig to set up the side frames which makes the process very easy but there are other ways to check that your chassis is assembled true and square. The adjustable jig is set up using your coupling rods, which is the first item you should build, despite what the instructions say! I unfortunately do not have any photos of the rods being soldered up but they consisted of three N/S laminates per rod to achieve the correct thickness. I line them up carefully and hold in place with three or four strong spring clips and a cocktail stick through the holes. I then add flux and plenty of solder, flooding it into the laminate, but not the web on the face. After soldering both the top and bottom edges, and the ends, I set about them with a fine Swiss file and clean them up removing all trace of the 'cusp'. finally finishing off with some fine wet and dry to remove any file marks and give a polished finish. The crankpin holes then need to be opened up with cutting broaches to fit your crankpin bearings. Take your time here as too much force can distort the rods at the weak point between the boss and the rod. Here the first rod has already been attached to the driving wheels. If you do not have access to a 'jig' there are a number of options you can use to achieve the same effect. Axle jigs, with tapered ends that you can fit your rods on to, are available quite cheaply and are a useful addition to your tool box or alternatively you could use the axles that are supplied with your Slaters wheels. The Crankpin holes in your rods will need to be opened up so that the Slaters wheel retaining screw will just pass through the rod. Be careful here not to make the hole too big. The axles will then perform a similar job to the jig to get the bearings square and correctly positioned in your chassis. Using this method requires that you use a very flat surface ie a piece of glass to ensure that your frames are square and parallel. Extended dummy axle rods are also very useful for checking the set up. On this model I found that I had a couple of temporary screw-in spacers that were the same size as the etched spacers supplied so I used these to bolt the chassis together before soldering in the permanent ones. At this point it is always worth checking the overall width of your axle bearing,chassis, spacer, width as I have been caught out a couple of times when axle bearings supplied in a kit have been not the same specification as the original kit designer had included and were over size! I always check now to ensure that I have less distance between the outside faces of the bearings than the back to back measurement of the axles I am using. In this case, a comfortable fit! Finally, for this post, a photograph to show the counter 'sinking' of the Slaters crankpin screw head in the back of the wheel. It should technically be a counter 'bore' but I just use a drill that is fractionally larger than the diameter of the head and remove a small amount from the rear of the hole to give a snug fit. Finish off with a tiny amount of 'nutlock', or superglue, in the hole just before you screw it all the way home. The finished article, still with the temporary spacers, as I will be completing the soldering at the first workshop next week. Regards Sandy 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 I think you doing this for beginners is a great idea. I wish you well with this and hope many will learn from it, as it is it is relevant for all scales not only 7mm. Keep up the good work...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Harper Posted October 8, 2014 Author Share Posted October 8, 2014 Thanks Peter Sandy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Harper Posted October 11, 2014 Author Share Posted October 11, 2014 (edited) Sorry this forum has gone a bit quiet lately as I cannot both paint and build at the same time in my tiny modelling room. Once I set up the painting table and the extractor fan there is no room to get at the work bench so in-between waiting for the paint to dry I catch up on reading or get involved in other jobs. I have attached a couple of photographs showing the painting set up. The Extractor fan unit came from Eileens, the spray gun is a badger, I have had for years, and the compressor is a Clarke with a pressure adjuster attached which I can reduce right down to less than 10psi , although I usually run it at about 15/18 psi. The only other item, not in the photograph that I use is a hairdryer for drying the paint after it has been sprayed on. I have got both the Skye Bogie and the 517 in the paint shop so there will be little building for a while! Regards Sandy Edited October 11, 2014 by Sandy Harper 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Harper Posted October 25, 2014 Author Share Posted October 25, 2014 Back to the E-bay rescue GWR 517. The detail painting has been finished but still with the glazing and the brass surrounds to fit, along with the transfers, number plates and varnish. Test running has shown that the balance is good and the compensation and additional pickups are working well. Regards Sandy 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Now that looks a whole lot happier. I find it very satisfying taking a poorly built kit and turning it into a model worth having. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kada33 Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Back to the E-bay rescue GWR 517. The detail painting has been finished but still with the glazing and the brass surrounds to fit, along with the transfers, number plates and varnish. Test running has shown that the balance is good and the compensation and additional pickups are working well. P1080384.JPG P1080383.JPG P1080382.JPG Regards Sandy Hi Sandy Which green paint did you use. I have a 64xx just about ready to spray. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Harper Posted October 25, 2014 Author Share Posted October 25, 2014 (edited) Hi Sandy Which green paint did you use. I have a 64xx just about ready to spray. Dave Hi Dave, It is standard Precision Paints gloss post '28 GWR green with a grey undercoat. Once the transfers and plates are on it will get a satin varnish coat with a drop of black paint in the mix to tone everything down slightly. Hope this helps. Sandy Edited October 25, 2014 by Sandy Harper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kada33 Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Hi Dave, It is standard Precision Paints gloss post '28 GWR green with a grey undercoat. Once the transfers and plates are on it will get a satin varnish coat with a drop of black paint in the mix to tone everything down slightly. Hope this helps. Sandy Thanks Sandy I have read that PP take a long time to go off, have you found this to be the case? Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Harper Posted October 25, 2014 Author Share Posted October 25, 2014 Thanks Sandy I have read that PP take a long time to go off, have you found this to be the case? Dave No, never found that. The only time I had a problem with paint not 'going off' was when I used Turpentine Substitute instead of white spirit!!! Stupid I know. I use a warm hair dryer on the paint after I have sprayed it. It seems to heat the top surface of the paint slightly and cause it to 'flow' into a nice smooth surface before drying completely. Just make sure you don't blow dust onto the model either from the hair dryer, if you have not used it for some time, or any dust lying on your bench!! Regards Sandy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnaby Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 Never ceases to amaze me the finish that you achieve from the unloved, badly treated and partly destroyed models all that and besides the models you bring to life from the base materials. Just like the medical profession who preform miracles daily I think I'll refer to you from now as Doctor Harper. Wonderful work Sandy. Regards 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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