Richard Mawer Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Hi, I am a recently returned modeller and need some help. I am building a reasonably large loft layout called Buckingham West (I have started a blog of that name) and all is going reasonably well so far, but soon I will need to tackle ballasting. I know how to do dry ballasting and glue in place. There are various ways and I'm happy to experiment a little, but what I don't know is what material to use for the ballast itself. The layout is 1930s GWR in oo and there is a lot of track to ballast. There are three complete stations and yards with double track between them, leading to a double track circuit around the loft before joining storage loops. I've started at the loops and just with those (no ballast required there) and the circuits there is over 55 meters of track. I am conscious of the cost of buying good quality ballast from the normal producers. It's great looking stuff and with a smaller layout, I wouldn't hesitate, but this layout will use shed loads and also I am not necessarily after the best, exhibition grade end results. I want it to look okay, but the layout is for my pleasure and for me its more about operating rather than top notch scenics. I heard someone once talk about fine sand. Has anyone ever tried it? Any more ideas? I hope this request doesn't offend any of the brilliant modellers out there. I'm just not looking to achieve those briliant results. Thanks Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Sidelines Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Rich I had a similar problem some eighteen months ago - I used a 1960s solution - blue poppy seeds. It is cheap and cheerful but does require a degree of patience / skill. There are some details on my Blog. I have also been experimenting with crushed rock / sand from the garden - for scenery not ballast - but the idea could certainly be modified. There are more details here. Regards Ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HLT 0109 Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Hello Rich. I am not an expert modeler, having started four years ago but I have used some sand on my loft layout which has about 350 feet of 00 gauge track. I used sharp sand left over from concreting which I sieved through my kitchen strainer (my rice tastes a bit gritty now!) and it worked as well as the Woodland Scenics ballast as far as ease-of-use is concerned. Compared with their fine ballast it is a little coarse but that depends on the grade of sieve, although there will be a limit as to how small it will go. The problem was the colour as, once glued, it became too rich a brown but flecked with white. I would post a photo but my computer is unable to process pictures at the moment. I have not painted any of my ballast as I found (with my limited skills) I was unable to get as good a result as with a mix of Woodland Scenics ballasts. Harold. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
class"66" Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Ive been using "N" gauge ballast,looks realy good,woth far better finish when dry.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon s Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Hi Rich, a 32oz bottle of Woodland Scenics ballast is only £9.50 and you will be surprised how little you will use once you hoover up the excess and start on the next piece of track. With the length of run and amount of track you have, you must have invested a lot of money on carpentry and track. Why cut corners at this stage as I suspect you could ballast your layout with four 32oz bottles? Seems a lot of effort to use a 'free' or very low cost material to save £38. I know you are more interested in operation and I can fully understand that, but good trackwork is the key to smooth running and a decent ballast will enhance the appearance of track considerably. http://www.kernowmod...last_Grey_Blend In any case, it's not the cost of ballast that will be the issue on a large layout, it's the time taken to do it. That will be the same whether you use a proprietary product or sand off the beach. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted November 20, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 20, 2012 Sand does work. I have used it having got mine from the local beach. Sieving and washing is required. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Rowsley17D Posted November 20, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 20, 2012 Sand does work. I have used it having got mine from the local beach. Sieving and washing is required. I have said this on a number of threads but it is illegal to remove sand etc from a beach and no, "the a small amount that modellers take won't make any difference" arguement doesn't make it right. If you want sand you are going to have to buy it from builders' merchant. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted November 20, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 20, 2012 I have said this on a number of threads but it is illegal to remove sand etc from a beach and no, "the a small amount that modellers take won't make any difference" arguement doesn't make it right. If you want sand you are going to have to buy it from builders' merchant. sThere is no need to steal it wear loose fitting shoes walk on the beach each day with the dogs and you will be surprised how much you get. When I lived in Beach road sand bay a good blow would cover the front lawn no one ever came to claim it back and I had all the trouble to brush it off. However a bag from the local builders merchants if not much cost and easier to handle. Sharp sand is gritty coarser and may contain very small stones. Soft sand is much finer and should not have small stones. However sand varies according to what is available locally. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Jones Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Having spent 50 years in the building industry I can assure you that a polite request on any small site for a shovel full of sand will be given willingly. This sand then needs a great deal of sieving, I've used an old cullandar, followed by a medium tea strainer then a fine strainer. This left me with a large amount of excellent ballast of a similar grade to WS fine. The downside, as stated earlier, is the colour, but if sprayed comes out very well. The biggest downside is the time involved in the straining, for the sake of a few pounds I'm not sure I'd want to do it again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted November 20, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 20, 2012 I have said this on a number of threads but it is illegal to remove sand etc from a beach and no, "the a small amount that modellers take won't make any difference" arguement doesn't make it right. If you want sand you are going to have to buy it from builders' merchant. Have you ever thought of asking? Remember it is only illegal if you don't have permission. Many beaches are privately owned and the owners or their representatives can be very approachable especially for the very small quantities that we need. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Sidelines Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 I have not painted any of my ballast It is good to hear that there are a lot of us out there using 'local / natural' materials. In the tradition of the late John Ahern and Pendon? I just do not like the idea of using paints - completely spoils the texture. Have you tried using a little coal dust to add darker shades? Good luck Ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Mawer Posted November 20, 2012 Author Share Posted November 20, 2012 Gents, Some fantastic comments and advice. Thanks you all so much. I will have to experiment on some of that old and useless steel track I found from 30 years ago! I think my main issue will be whether to use the spreader I made and then spray glue on in the time honoured watered down pva and drop of detergent way, or to try to wallpaper paste "porridge" and a spatula. I do now, recall reading in Railway Modeller "many" years ago about someone mixing ballast with wallpaper paste and piping in on through a plastic bag with the corner cut off, like icing a cake. Anyway, thanks again, and I'll be looking up your sites and blogs etc. I hope you like mine - Buckingham West - hopefully now its been brought up to date, there will be some real time advances. Cheers Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dungrange Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Have you ever thought of asking? Remember it is only illegal if you don't have permission. Many beaches are privately owned and the owners or their representatives can be very approachable especially for the very small quantities that we need. My understanding is that the beach (from the high water mark towards the sea) is always the property of the Crown. Therefore, although the land adjacent to the beach may be privately owned, the beach itself isn't other than any strip of sand that might be above the high water mark. Regards David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted November 20, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 20, 2012 My understanding is that the beach (from the high water mark towards the sea) is always the property of the Crown. Therefore, although the land adjacent to the beach may be privately owned, the beach itself isn't other than any strip of sand that might be above the high water mark. Regards David There are exceptions to this rule but in general the high and low water mark part is correct. The nice sandy bits above the high water mark can be privately owned however so the owners of these parts can give permission for the removal of sand. (Again there could be local exceptions to this you would need to check - These would generally be environmental concerns and are normally in place to stop wholesale removal of the beach area). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HLT 0109 Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 ... or to try to wallpaper paste "porridge" and a spatula. I do now, recall reading in Railway Modeller "many" years ago about someone mixing ballast with wallpaper paste and piping in on through a plastic bag with the corner cut off, like icing a cake. Rich, I tried this first and wished I hadn't, although I spread it with my fingers rather than a squeeze-bag. Perhaps I made my paste too weak but mine tends to crumble easily. This is an advantage if you need to lift the track later but is a nuisance when it happens accidentally. Also, I found I got a better finish with the traditional dilute PVA method Harold. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campaman Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 If you go for a walk in Wareham Forest you will find some nice fine grey sand and its not a beach, although I suspect in the far past it may have been. Other alternative sands are available from Pet Shops used for reptile tanks, and I think you can also get a playpit sand that's is suitable for using as ballast. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Re6/6 Posted November 21, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 21, 2012 Rich, give 'chinchilla dust' a try, available in pet shops. It usually come in 2pt plastic milk type containers. IIRC it's is really cheap for the amount that you get. It's finer than Woodlands ballast. It does have a degree of dust (hence the name!) but this isn't a problem in use. It's particularly good for sidings where very fine ballast is required. I've used it for the mainline and it works OK. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigeln Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 North wales will do a good deal on large amounts of ballast. http://www.northwalesmodels.com/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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