LNER 0-6-0

[Mr Brunel]

Hello,

 

I'm currently researching Horton Road (85B) shed as it was circa 1945-8, and have come across a photograph of a LNER 0-6-0 on shed. The photograph is dated 1946, and the caption doesn't offer much information - only that the locomotive was numbered 2072, and engines of its type were drafted into the area following the war (along with, apparently, some Southern Railway K10s). I think the engine is likely a J21, but I'm not sufficiently au fait with the LNER to be sure. So what class of engine was 2072?

[The Stationmaster]

Hello,

 

I'm currently researching Horton Road (85B) shed as it was circa 1945-8, and have come across a photograph of a LNER 0-6-0 on shed. The photograph is dated 1946, and the caption doesn't offer much information - only that the locomotive was numbered 2072, and engines of its type were drafted into the area following the war (along with, apparently, some Southern Railway K10s). I think the engine is likely a J21, but I'm not sufficiently au fait with the LNER to be sure. So what class of engine was 2072?

 

Probably a J25 - quite a number of these were sent to the GWR during the war to replace Dean Goods which were OHMS. I can't remember offhand which Southern types were sent but I do know that some which finished up at Old Oak were thoroughly disliked and hardly ever turned a wheel once they had been tried in traffic.

[Markeg]

Hi Mr Brunel,

According to my 'ABC of LNER Locomotives' dated 1947, it is a J25.

The LNER renumbered locos in 1946 under E Thompson.

Mark in OZ

[ArthurK]

Twenty J25s were transferred to the GWR 1939/40. They were overhauled and fitted with vacuum brakes for their new duties. The purpose of the transfer was to replace Dean Goods 0-6-0s commandeered by the government for war duties. All the J25s had returned to the Northeast by the end of 1946.

 

ArthurK

[The Fatadder]

What would have happened re branding on these (and the lms 060s they got at the same time)

 

Would it have the lner branding still or was this painted out / replaced with gwr?

[The Stationmaster]

What would have happened re branding on these (and the lms 060s they got at the same time)

 

Would it have the lner branding still or was this painted out / replaced with gwr?

 

The locos were only on loan so ownership didn't change - therefore any marks of ownership wouldn't change either (and if they did some number clashes could occur). The 'Railway Magazine for 1940 contains a number of reports regarding these locos -

In the January issue some were reported as transferring to the GWR via Banbury - all were freshly painted and looked in good condition.

 

The April issue recorded the following LNER locos as transferred to the GWR - 29, 257, 536, 1963, 1966, 1973, 1981, 1982, 1986, 1989, 1992, 2000, 2040, 2047, 2061, 2065, 2069, 2071, 2073, 2075, 2076, 2135, 2136, & 2138 - being allocated to the Wolverhampton and Worcester Divisions.

 

The May issue listed the following as received on loan from the LNER - 1970, 1994, 2043, 2058, 2059, 2072, 2141, & 2142

 

The June issue listed the following as arriving on the GWR from the LNER (all Class J25 it notes) -1725, 1964, 1967, 1983, 2051, 2053, 2120, & 2134.

 

The trail then goes dead with no more mention of LNER locos transferred to the GWR in that year although occasional movement of LMS locos seems to have continued (in both directions). Some of the other workings brought about by 'the exigencies of wartime working' make interesting reading including an A4 reaching Banbury (off the GC of course) and an A1 'St Simon' arriving at Southall with a coal train via the GC and Greenford.

[The Fatadder]

Thanks, I think I was still looking at it from a much more modern point of view with sticking a temporary logo on loaned stock.

 

Thinking that modelling a J25 and one of the LMS locos will add a slightly different project for the future...

Will enter it into my research notes at any rate!

[jwealleans]

http://www.scalefour.org/LondonRoadModels/locos-tenders-chassis/north-eastern/

[pH]

I've just bought the November 2012 edition of 'Steam Days' (the post to the colonies can be slow) and wartime transfer of engines between companies is mentioned. It's in an article about the GWR in Worcestershire in the 1940s, and the transferred engines are almost an aside in the text. However, the accompanying pictures include several of Worcester shed yard, and they show all sorts of interesting things.

 

There's:

- a very clear broadside view of J25 2051, and it's in LNER colours

- several engines, including a 'USA dock tank', a USATC 2-8-0 and a J25

- a lineup containing an LMS 4F, J25 2058 and LB&SCR I3 tanks 2089 and 2091, with GWR engines in the background. (Another answer to the question 'Where could you see engines of all of the Big 4 together?' )

[Mr Brunel]

Thanks for all the responses - very helpful and informative. I think Nu-Cast made a kit of the J25?

[jwealleans]

They did, but he's retired and it's NLA unless you take you chance on Ebay. See my post above.

[micknich2003]

There was a very good and well illustrated article in an eaely edition of the Irwel Press magazine "British Railways Illustrated", a look on their website will probably find it. Best Wishes, Mick.

[MarkC]

Dave Alexander does a W/M J25 kit - a pal of mine is presently constructing one.

 

Mark

[DVLR Dave]

A total of 40 J25's were loaned to the GWR. Some of these had been withdrawn by the in 1939 but retained because of the growing threat of war. of the 40, 20 received vacuum brakes as stated above by ArthurK . On return to the LNER this brake gear was removed from 14 but the other 6 retained it until withdrawal.

[Worsdell forever]

The vacuum brakes comment is an interesting one, I remember reading once that the GWR requested goods locos so the LNER sent the above mentioned J25s, the GWR asked 'why are they not vac fitted?' and the LNER said 'because they are goods locos', the GWR said 'but we want to pull passenger trains with them...'

 

Now, do you want goods locos or mixed traffic?

[Mr Brunel]

I've seen the Dave Alexander and London Road Models - but I've no experience in brass or w/m, and I'd like to build up my skills on a 'introductory' level kit first. Are the J25s particularly complex, and would I be better off starting with something like a Comet chassis?

[Jol Wilkinson]

Personally I think brass kits are better and easier, provided you have the right soldering iron, solder and flux, although there will be those who will strongly advocate cast w/m. Even w/m kits have etched loco and tender chassis, so you are halfway there anyway.

 

Perhaps the best way forward might be to start with a suitable brass kit for a GWR wagon. LRM do both a TVR and a Rymney Railway van, which I believe were absorbed into the GWR http://www.scalefour...arious/wagons/.

 

There are others http://gwr.org.uk/kits4wagons.html, although as they don't list the LRM kits and some listed are no longer available, I am not sure how accurate the list is.

[MarkC]

I've seen the Dave Alexander and London Road Models - but I've no experience in brass or w/m, and I'd like to build up my skills on a 'introductory' level kit first. Are the J25s particularly complex, and would I be better off starting with something like a Comet chassis?

 

The J25 is very straightforward. As others have said, you might want to have a go at one or two wagons first, but I suspect that once you make a start, you'll be pleasantly surprised. If you get stuck, there's plenty of advice to be found on here

 

Good luck with it

 

Mark

[Tim Lewis]

The LRM J25 builds into a nice loco (there's a nearly finished one on my workbench thread), but I found it moderately hard work: it's a very old kit which LRM inherited, the design philosophy of which I would characterise as "the pieces are the right shape but we won't worry too much about making them easy to join together". Although it does in theory have some tabs and slots, I found they were too small or not in quite the right place to be useful, resulting in essentially a lot of butt joints which, with my limited soldering skills, I found difficult. The instructions are good though.

 

As a first etched kit, you might be better off with one of Arthur Kimber's J24s, or J73s, which have 'proper' tabs and slots.

[MarkC]

Apologies - I was referring to the Alexander kit, which is, of course, whitemetal

 

Mark

[Mr Brunel]

As most people have recommended, I'd like to start with a couple of etched wagon kits to build up my skills - what would be best? I was thinking of either the Lochgorm beginner frets, or the Bill Bedford GWR ballast wagon. Once I've got a grip of the basic skills, I'll move onto chassises (what's the plural?), and eventually tackle the J25

[Kenton]

the design philosophy of which I would characterise as "the pieces are the right shape but we won't worry too much about making them easy to join together". Although it does in theory have some tabs and slots, I found they were too small or not in quite the right place to be useful, resulting in essentially a lot of butt joints which, with my limited soldering skills, I found difficult.

 

After a while you begin to appreciate that tabs and slots are more trouble than they are worth. I would now have second thoughts over any kit with them - there is nothing difficult about butt or edge soldered joins, even more so if you learn to use tack soldering to hold pieces in place rather than flooding every join.

 

If you are resorting to the wagon first approach - best idea if totally new to the art, don't forget Dragon Models (bottom of page) have a good range and are pretty easy build with quite reasonable (sometimes outstanding with photo steps) instructions.