Hornby Star Class

[robmcg]

Nice photo Coach and it shows up my edited-pic Hornby versions,  your photo has given me enthusiasm however to improve my Black 5s with better front wheels, as the Hornby model is a bit weak in that area.

 

I just bought a 44871 to go with my 44781, both weathered, and Gibson wheels might be just the thing. Thankyou.

 

Apologies for serious thread drift. 

 

 

I just noticed Coach you have a front cylinder cover on your Black 5 ...  a great improvement over the factory version. And the other detailing on your model and understated weathering is SUPERB. Here below the factory front wheels etc to compare with your pic 2 messages back.

 

 

Back to Star deliveries please, I am still waiting for Glastonbury..

Edited December 19, 2013 by robmcg

[lofty1966]

I'm still waiting for "Knight" (curse you Mr Hatton....I pre ordered almost on announcement ) and "Lode" (which the kids have kindly ordered for me as a Christmas present).

Going to be bare under my tree methinx......

Edited December 19, 2013 by lofty1966

[robmcg]

Quite odd that you missed out on presumably a DCC-ready 'Knight' from Hattons if you pre-ordered early, as I think early orders take precedence. Perhaps they received very very few or none at all?

 

The do have DCC fitted versions I think, at the moment.

 

Good luck anyway for Xmas.

 

Rob

[lofty1966]

I pre-ordered a non DCC "Knight" That's whats frustrating.

I'm getting used to being at the back of Hattons queue system. 72XX was slow and the 52XX I could have walked to China and got quicker !

I got impatient on the 72XX and impulse bought one from Antic's.....then got completely ripped on import duty , so won't be doing that again......patience is the key.... (doesn't stop me grumbling though) !

But hey ho...everything comes to those that wait......

Merry Christmas , Everyone !

[Ian Hargrave]

An observation on so-called 'haulage capabilities',posted somewhere on this forum (can't find where). Tested 4003 a short while ago.Definitely not in the Castle league for 'clout' but very reasonable nonetheless.Original load 3 Hornby clerestory plus one Bachmann Collett. Increased to 6 clerestory plus Collett...7 in all..stock,frankly not that free running.4003 a little shy at first but then picked up ok..position 6.5 on Gaugemaster DC.

For comparison tried Bachmann City of Bath.....which wheelslipped for England and would not move its load.Interesting.......

[John M Upton]

I take it we can now safely assume that the chances of the BR Star making it into my hands before the 25th of December have all but fizzled out?

[Ozexpatriate]

I am told mine is westward leading, still proceeding, but I haven't seen it yet.

And lo, a Star appeared from the East.

 

It really does look very nice.

 

Having said that it does have a bit of the Hornby drop damage I routinely see after the tumble cycle in the post. (Hornby really don't seem to be exaggerating their packaging problems.) I suspect that the damage I see is more about detail components being inserted with insufficient glue than insufficient packaging. There's a brake? handle loose in the box and a right side tender grab-rail that is quite visibly out of place but I think these can be gently remedied.

 

There is a lot of silver paint picking out details on Lode Star that is not present on Knight of the Grand Cross. I should take a couple of quick photographs to contrast the two. The paint on Lode Star does make the green shelf on the cab-side look a lot more like a handrail - if you don't look closely at all.

Edited December 19, 2013 by Ozexpatriate

[Ian Hargrave]

I'm still waiting for "Knight" (curse you Mr Hatton....I pre ordered almost on announcement ) and "Lode" (which the kids have kindly ordered for me as a Christmas present).

Going to be bare under my tree methinx......

Do not give up on 4003 yet.As I posted earlier,My order was early November....arrived yesterday.Give them a ring to enquire. Good luck and enjoy.Despite all ,it is a sweet ,graceful thing.....I particularly like the rendering of the valve gearing & motion and the slim lines of the firebox.Not,it must be said,as I personally recall it.....the postwar grime-encrusted loco at Swansea High Street.Landore forever!!

[Peter Kazmierczak]

The Three Kings (having left their respective Castles) followed the Star, arriving on what we now call the Feast of the Epiphany. This is on the 6th January, so the loco might still arrive during the Christmas Season. They would be refreshed by carrying water in their Panniers. The Saints will be looking down over the Manor and the surrounding Granges to watch for their arrival.

[Welchester]

The Three Kings (having left their respective Castles) followed the Star, arriving on what we now call the Feast of the Epiphany. This is on the 6th January, so the loco might still arrive during the Christmas Season. They would be refreshed by carrying water in their Panniers. The Saints will be looking down over the Manor and the surrounding Granges to watch for their arrival.

 

At the City of David (3443/3720).

[robmcg]

And lo, a Star appeared from the East.

 

It really does look very nice.

 

Having said that it does have a bit of the Hornby drop damage I routinely see after the tumble cycle in the post. (Hornby really don't seem to be exaggerating their packaging problems.) I suspect that the damage I see is more about detail components being inserted with insufficient glue than insufficient packaging. There's a brake? handle loose in the box and a right side tender grab-rail that is quite visibly out of place but I think these can be gently remedied.

 

There is a lot of silver paint picking out details on Lode Star that is not present on Knight of the Grand Cross. I should take a couple of quick photographs to contrast the two. The paint on Lode Star does make the green shelf on the cab-side look a lot more like a handrail - if you don't look closely at all.

 

I have received many tumble-dryer-tested models regularly over 8 years from Hornby and yes the number of small parts which detatch is considerable, but perhaps not quite so common with the latest packaging.

 

Oddly when they used the foam packaging, split or the older one-piece, they travelled well but were harder to remove/replace than the recent plastic folding system, and human nature being what it is, buyers would blame Hornby for their own clumsiness. Also the old foam style required extensive knowledge of where the little packing pieces should be inserted for repacking, and/or great skill in removal of , for instance unrebuilt Bulleid Pacifics,  watch those front lamp irons,  or Stanier Pacifics, watch that front r/h deflector and step,  or Riddles Standard Britannias,  watch everything fall off, do not invert unless by zero gravity in a vacuum.     So the Star is keeping up a tradition.

 

I have found Bachmann just as bad, no better, no worse.

Edited December 19, 2013 by robmcg

[60800]

Been informed by Swindon that my 4003 will be delivered in the second batch of 500 mid January. Payment was taken immediately upon ordering, so I better hope it's coming

[Ozexpatriate]

Had a email from Hornby ...

Did you purchase directly from Hornby, or did you contact customer service?

[Coach bogie]

Been informed by Swindon that my 4003 will be delivered in the second batch of 500 mid January. Payment was taken immediately upon ordering, so I better hope it's coming

 

It is Swindon shop policy. I was charged back in early February and had to wait ten months for delivery. I had great fun justfying that one to the household authorities.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[OnTheBranchline]

It is Swindon shop policy. I was charged back in early February and had to wait ten months for delivery. I had great fun justfying that one to the household authorities.

 

Mike Wiltshire

Who says she would notice if you didn't tell her?

[robmcg]

Both, but like it says in the post I asked for Castle wheels knowing these were available and they have agreed to send me some.

Simples if you don't ask you don't get.

 

So you Emailed Hornby Customer Services, AND tried to buy wheels directly from the Hornby website?  Did both respond, are the wheels, single, on axles or a Castle bogie?  And when you say "they have agreed to send me some" is there any charge involved?

 

Others may be interested. Are you, for instance, registered with the Hornby website, and so on.

 

I recall the introduction of the Hornby engine-tender 4-pin plug removal tool and how hard it was to buy, a couple of years ago, yet it is indispensable, and was never really made easy to buy.

 

Rob

[Neal Ball]

Tender plug removal tool.... That would be easier than the tweezers / screwdriver I currently use!

 

How do I get one?

[Coppercap]

I recall the introduction of the Hornby engine-tender 4-pin plug removal tool and how hard it was to buy, a couple of years ago, yet it is indispensable, and was never really made easy to buy.

 

 

 

Odd, as I saw plenty of them hanging on the display racks in several shops before I realised having one would be useful. Later, having had difficulty with these plugs, I realised I'd better go and buy one - no problem.

[robmcg]

Tender plug removal tool.... That would be easier than the tweezers / screwdriver I currently use!

 

How do I get one?

 

I think it has a Hornby X**** number and I had to google 'Hornby plug removal'  it then enter the number into a web-sellers search thing... I got 2 from Hattons but they only had a few and ran out inside a week.  Hornby may sell them too. Kernows used to with  product reference X6468.

 

Two years ago this worked...

>>Send an e-mail or contact Hornby customer service and they will send you one of these tools usually without charge and it will arrive by Royal Mail, mine only took a couple of days. <<

 

Best I can do I'm afraid.  Some say a computer chip removal tool is similar.  It is a squat pair of tweezers with small claws.         

[micklner]

I think it has a Hornby X**** number and I had to google 'Hornby plug removal'  it then enter the number into a web-sellers search thing... I got 2 from Hattons but they only had a few and ran out inside a week.  Hornby may sell them too. Kernows used to with  product reference X6468.

 

Two years ago this worked...

>>Send an e-mail or contact Hornby customer service and they will send you one of these tools usually without charge and it will arrive by Royal Mail, mine only took a couple of days. <<

 

Best I can do I'm afraid.  Some say a computer chip removal tool is similar.  It is a squat pair of tweezers with small claws.         

£2.99 inc postage on ebay .EKM have them as well.

[mattingleycustom]

Hornby bogie wheels don't represent anything in particular whether they be 10 or 12 spoke. Gibson bogie wheels considerably improve the look of RTR locos and put them in the 'scale' bracket......I do it as a matter of course.

 

WEB Gibson bogie wheels.jpg

Very nice job Coach, but blacken those driving wheel treads as well.

[NigelP]

Not often I contribute, but I was looking at a review of the Hornby Star in Model Rail, went and looked at a few books, and noted the following:

 

"Great Western 4-6-0s" by Brian Stephenson (Locomotives Illustrated, Ian Allan Ltd.) has two Stars  - 4014 and 4018 - showing both sides in 1930's condition, both with superheat and with outside steam pipes with inside elbows, top feed and short safety valve covers on pages 18 and 19. Lots of detail. Stars 4062, 4023, 4004, 4022, 4038, 4007, 4019, 4013, 4043, and 4060 are shown on pages 24-29. The time frame covered is from the 1930's to the 1950's. 

 

Hornby may have slipped up on the outside steam pipes and cylinders. The outside steam pipes are the inside elbows originally fitted to engines after new pattern inside cylinders were installed (and which do not go through the running plate), but the cylinders on Hornby's 4018 appear to be Castle types from their position*. 

 

As usual with Hornby GWR 4-6-0s the cylinders and covers are not wide enough, one of the issues of accommodating a gauge of 16.5mm (and a back-to-back of 14.2mm!)**.

 

The ejector pipe work on the right hand side of the cab would appear to be incorrect for 4018. It should be closer to the cab and vertical. Jim Russell (Great Western Engines volume 2, page 81) has a picture of 4001 by J.N. Maskelyne with superheat and top-feed, comparable to Hornby's 4018, that shows this well, as does the photograph on page 18 of "Great Western 4-6-0s". 

 

One area that Hornby doesn't get right is the framing above the front bogie wheels. This was jogged and ran right to the buffer beam. Hornby's insistence on its locomotives being able to negotiate tight track radii in conjunction with a narrow back-to-back means there will always be unwanted daylight in this area.

 

There are also issues with the smoke box and its detailing. By the late 1930's and the fitting of Castle-type cylinders the top lamp bracket had been moved to the smoke box door (and the pattern changed). The smoke box door handles are either too short or the door hinges are too far apart. The lower hinge should probably be nearer the dart (and level with the steam lance on the other side).

 

The blanking plate for the snifter valves on the front of the inside cylinder cover should be rectangular, not oval, for 4018 (and 4014). 4007 and 4009 had oval blanking plates. For other Stars check the photographs. 

 

The chimney unfortunately looks nothing like the prototype. The lip at the top should have more of a bevel. The chimney is well illustrated on page 24 of "The GWR Stars, Castles & Kings" by O.S. Nock.

 

The D bracket from the frame that holds the rear end of the lower cross-head slide is absent. The lower cross-head slide is left floating in the wind. Brian Stephenson shows this well.

The cross member rod on the front rail guards is too high, on the prototype it was positioned below the flare, not on the narrow vertical section. 

 

Anybody renumbering/renaming and or back-dating 4018 would be advised to check photographs from the appropriate time-frame carefully. If back-dating to "as built" some serious modifications to the frame at the front (square, not curved) as well as a lot of body work will be required. I've done this with a Hornby Saint body, quite a lot of butchery.

 

BCDR

 

*The cylinder covers on Stars just hit the bottom of the running plate frame, on Castles it's in the middle of the frame. A good example of a Star with Castle cylinders and outside steam pipes with outside elbows through the running plate is 4060 Princess Eugenie circa 1951.

 

** Moving the wheel set out to a back-to-back of 14.5mm may result in the motion and connecting rods fouling the back of the cylinder. In which case the cylinders have to be moved out as well. I had this happen to me when I re-gauged a new model Hornby Castle to a back-to-back of 14.5mm (from 13.9mm as supplied, Hornby told me the acceptable range was 13.9-14.2mm).

 

[robmcg]

What on earth do you expect on a model at about £100 retail?  They are built to run on poorly-laid type 2 curves because many buyers insist on it. You can hardly call the compromises 'wrong'. Many of the other things you describe as wrong on 4018 are 'right' on other versions.

 

If you expect individualised tooling and sub-assembly for every number variant, 14.3mm back-to-back gauge, and so on, well, it isn't going to happen, because it would push prices into several hundreds of pounds at least, you might as well go for EM gauge conversion and individualised detail packs, remembering that these 00 models are manufactured in bulk at under £60 per item (my guess) and where are the teams of well-educated assembly workers, who know what and ejector pipe curve should look like for 4018 as opposed to 4003?

 

Of course finding the 'errors' in the detail of what is essentially a mass-production item, albeit a short run production, is useful for those who wish to customise their model to an exact specification, and some things like slide bar lower-rear supports are sadly missing, but that is the fun of super-detailing, if that's your aim.

 

Perhaps I am over-sensitive, hearing AGAIN   a chorus of "Hornby got it wrong on this detail, that detail,  ..." ad nauseum. 

 

typo edit

Edited December 21, 2013 by robmcg

[Neal Ball]

I have just sent my email to Hornby - asking for 10 spokes / extractor tool and repeating my request again for new GWR pre-war carriages! 

[NigelP]

What on earth do you expect on a model at about £100 retail?  They are built to run on poorly-laid type 2 curves because many buyers insist on it. You can hardly call the compromises 'wrong'. Many of the other things you describe as wrong on 4018 are 'right' on other versions.

 

If you expect individualised tooling and sub-assembly for every number variant, 14.3mm back-to-back gauge, and so on, well, it isn't going to happen, because it would push prices into several hundreds of pounds at least, you might as well go for EM gauge conversion and individualised detail packs, remembering that these 00 models are manufactured in bulk at under £60 per item (my guess) and where are the teams of well-educated assembly workers, who know what and ejector pipe curve should look like for 4018 as opposed to 4003?

 

Of course finding the 'errors' in the detail of what is essentially a mass-production item, albeit a short run production, is useful for those who wish to customise their model to an exact specification, and some things like slide bar lower-rear supports are sadly missing, but that is the fun of super-detailing, if that's your aim.

 

Perhaps I am over-sensitive, hearing AGAIN   a chorus of "Hornby got it wrong on this detail, that detail,  ..." ad nauseum. 

 

typo edit

Yes, a tad over sensitive I believe, although I couldn't agree more about what you get for £108.00 when £115.00-£120.00 gets a Star kit, then add on another £100+ for wheels, motor, gearbox, etc., plus the time to build it. However, coming up with a "generic" model when photographic evidence of what is required is available is to my mind not acceptable. Part of the issue is that Hornby are still leveraging old tools/old parts/old technology into new models, viz. the use of Castle cylinders (and probably the chassis), molded hand rails and that back-to-back of 14.2mm (which has been around since the Saints and ringfield drive tenders). I was simply pointing out that if you are interested in details (which I am, not everybody else is, no criticism from me) then this model will require some work,especially if another Star or a back-dated model is required. From what I can see no 2 were identical. Getting one detail wrong is excusable, getting a list of them wrong is another matter (that sounds familiar). This post was made because earlier on a lot of others had indicated renaming would be high on the list of priorities. Whether the differences between the class members is modelled or it's simply a name and number swap is up to the individual (steam pipes or not, inside or outside elbow steam pipes, no steam pipes, Castle cylinders or not, rectangular or oval blanking plates, etc.). 

 

I already have a Star - 4032, Queen Alexandra, although it's after the rebuild into a Castle class in 1926. What did it take - a set of nameplates and numbers and a Hornby Castle. Does it look the part? Yes. is it correct? No, because the Castle is not correct. But it is without doubt the easiest conversion I've done, and one of the cheapest (£65.00 total). Back-dating would be easy - change the cab (cut and shut or a Saint body donor for the cab would do it) and remove or change the steam pipes. BTW, I'm not convinced that the majority of modellers want model trains manufactured for £30-40.00 ex-factory (think 1/3rds) if they're only representative, although I could be wrong. I don't expect tooling to cater to every variant, but if it purports to be 4018 in the 1930's shouldn't it at least look like it?  I moved from OO to EM some years ago for exactly the reasons you listed. The Devil is in the detail.

 

 

BCDR