Hornby Star Class

[lofty1966]

Managed to pick the whole set off Ebay for 110 quid.

Very pleased.

[mattingleycustom]

Further to the current discussion on postwar GWR Stars, I thought I'd give interested RMwebbers a sneak peak at my project to take a 4050 Princes Alice, formerly of the WW1 Troop Train Pack, and make a post-war, unlined green Star. I wanted a bit of variety, as we are all familiar with fully lined out GWR express passenger locos, however perhaps less well known was the wartime need to paint Kings, Castles, Stars and some Halls unlined green. Knowing that we are unlikely to ever see such a liveried release from the RTR boys (although kudos to Hattons and Dave Jones for offering an unlined GWR green King in their forthcoming range; which I have duly ordered!), I have thus set about creating such a loco for myself. Stage 1 is complete - the acquisition of an unlined G-Crest-W tender from Pitchford Hall in the 'Tyseley Connection' Train Pack. 

 

DSC_0607.JPG

 

Further work to be done? Well, from the front of the loco to the rear:

 

1) Move the headlamp bracket from atop the smokebox, to the smokebox door

 

2) Replace the tall safety valve cover for a shorter type although I have photographic evidence that 4049 (albeit with Castle style outside steampipes) retained its tall cover until at least 1946. Hence, I may leave the tall bonnet if I can find evidence of such a class member with inside steam pipes being so fitted by 1946/47.

 

3) Rename and renumber to a suitable member of the class - Princess Alice was fitted with Elbow steam pipes in June 1946, and so I'd be pushing it to leave this Star so named and run her in late 46 & 47. Current candidates (aside those named after 'Monarchs' as most names were removed during WW2 - see Coach bogie's post above) are: 

- 4021 British Monarch

- 4031 Queen Mary

- 4039 Queen Matilda

- 4042 Prince Albert 

- 4061 Glastonbury Abbey

- 4062 Malmesbury Abbey 

 

4) Remove the horrible moulded rear tender handrails with a scalpel and fine grade sand paper and replace with Hornby or Comet handrails. 

 

5) Sit back and enjoy! I already have a re-liveried Glastonbury Abbey (to become 4045 Prince John) with elbow steam pipes, and slated for a 2016 release is Hornby's 4013 Knight of St.Patrick with inside steam pipes, so for varieties sake I really need a Castle steam-piped version, which Hornby is yet to release in any livery. 

 

Hope this is of interest to some. 

 

Cheers, 

 

CoY

Interesting post, as I am currently doing something similar to my Princess Alice, it is nameless and numberless and is about to have it's moulded cab handrails cut away. Mine is to become 4031 Queen Mary in the fully lined post 1927 livery.

[coachmann]

Just 'down-at-heeled' and renamed a Hornby 'Star' to last-survivor Princess Margaret. Also made a pod down the front of the cab to house the reverser screw (4050 onwards) and fitted new bogie wheels.....

Edited February 18, 2016 by coachmann

[No Decorum]

Just 'down-at-heeled' and renamed a Hornby 'Star' to last-survivor Princess Margaret. Also made a pod down the front of the cab to house the reverser screw (4050 onwards) and fitted new bogie wheels.....

WEB Star Princess 5.jpg

That's nice. Did you manage to straighten the left-hand cylinder or were you lucky with your model?

[coachmann]

That's nice. Did you manage to straighten the left-hand cylinder or were you lucky with your model?

Must admit I hadn't heard that one. It was bought direct from Hornby and the cylinders are spot-on.

[rgmichel]

That's nice. Did you manage to straighten the left-hand cylinder or were you lucky with your model?

My Lode Star has cylinders that don't look parallel to the locomotive.  How did you straighten yours?

[No Decorum]

My Lode Star has cylinders that don't look parallel to the locomotive.  How did you straighten yours?

I'm afraid it remains slightly crooked.

[Hroth]

I bought R3229 British Monarch this weekend and I'm considering moving it back to an "as built" condition but with several years service under its belt.

 

Now, from what little research I've done I realise that I need to rename 4021 to King Edward, but being a bit lazy, what  would need to be done to the livery to make it approximate to pre WW1?  I use "approximate" as I don't want to start large scale repainting; careful removal of inappropriate lining and the early BR crest, with the application of appropriate GW identity and a bit of road dust is more along my line of thinking!

 

Any suggestions?

[Coppercap]

I bought R3229 British Monarch this weekend and I'm considering moving it back to an "as built" condition but with several years service under its belt.

 

Now, from what little research I've done I realise that I need to rename 4021 to King Edward, but being a bit lazy, what  would need to be done to the livery to make it approximate to pre WW1?  I use "approximate" as I don't want to start large scale repainting; careful removal of inappropriate lining and the early BR crest, with the application of appropriate GW identity and a bit of road dust is more along my line of thinking!

 

Any suggestions?

You'll need to change the tender for starters... you need the smaller, 3500(?) gallon type, not the 4000 gallon type as fitted.

[Hroth]

You'll need to change the tender for starters... you need the smaller, 3500(?) gallon type, not the 4000 gallon type as fitted.

It clicked a few minutes after posting that I'd need a Churchward tender.

 

Soooo.....   try and find a 4-4-0 County tender to rob the top off, or a Dapol "City" kit tender?

 

Perhaps I'll just let sleeping dogs lie...

Edited February 22, 2016 by Hroth

[Hilux5972]

Perhaps an easier option is for you to sell on British Monarch and try to get hold of Princess Alice split from the Troop Train set. Correct tender, no lining, GWR plain green. Always easier to add details such as lining etc than to take it away.

[M.I.B]

If you have BM in BR green it's going to need a repaint, and a small County tender top.  They are not rare on Ebay - I got mine recently for way less than any of its later cousins sell for.  Sell your tender top and you maybe in profit.

 

Or you can wait for PA, like lots of us are doing, and we can all have a bidding war on Ebay.........

[Coppercap]

The 4-4-0 County tender top is not really up to it. While it may fit, it's detail is way less than the Star's Churchward tender, and the bulkhead behind the coal space is too far to the rear - presumably that was to accommodate the old tender drive. Also, it has a mountain of moulded coal that will have to be removed or it'll look toylike.

[Hroth]

To be honest, I'd prefer to do as little to 4021 as possible.  One day hauling blood'n'custard with the Collet tender then, into the phone box and out to go all Churchwardy and pre-grouping.

 

I got my "County of Devon" out this evening and to my eyes, the colour Hornby used on that is the same as makes no difference to 4021.  The point is that they don't look too odd when placed together.  Ok the lining is completely different but I can live with that for mix and match purposes.  Agreed the County tender is very Railroad but the coal can be cut out with a fretsaw and a better proportioned load installed whilst the moulded handrails to the rear can be carefully removed and replaced with something better.

 

Stick King Edward nameplates on 4021 and the Jekyll and Hyde job is done.

[4069]

Don't forget to change the footplate valance from green to black.

[GeoffBird]

I have just purchased a BM direct rfom Hornby in their sale and am very pleased with it.  However, when fitting the headlamps I noticed that the lamp brackets are not centralised, the LH one viewed from the front, i.e.(Drivers side) being 4mm from the edge of the footplate and the RH one 6mm.  Not very noticeable until one relates the headlamps to the buffer positions.  I can't think that this is so in the prototype (unless otherwise corrected) - has anyone else noticed this on other variants of the Hornby "Star" models.

[toboldlygo]

I have just purchased a BM direct rfom Hornby in their sale and am very pleased with it.  However, when fitting the headlamps I noticed that the lamp brackets are not centralised, the LH one viewed from the front, i.e.(Drivers side) being 4mm from the edge of the footplate and the RH one 6mm.  Not very noticeable until one relates the headlamps to the buffer positions.  I can't think that this is so in the prototype (unless otherwise corrected) - has anyone else noticed this on other variants of the Hornby "Star" models.

 

They are correct - the lamp irons are offset due the nature of how the GWR Lamps mount on them, to the side rather than at the rear of the lamp.

[M.I.B]

Hello

We thought you may like to know that an item you have on order with us, on order id *********, has had some information about its release date added or updated.

Hornby R3455 Star Class 4-6-0 4013 "Knight of St Patrick" in GWR Green £118.00

Our latest information from the supplier suggests this item will arrive with us on or after Wednesday 30th November 2016

Whilst we are hopeful this information is accurate, manufacturer lead times are frequently prone to be delayed. This information is to be used as a guide only.

We hope that this email has been useful.

[Hroth]

Further to my post of 22nd Feb above, being a sunny afternoon, I dug out BM and CoD and stuck them alongside each other, then I also got my recently obtained Addersley Hall which also has a 3500 gal tender and added it to the lineout.  Comparing the 3500 gal tenders on 4901 and 3835 I can see the gross malformation due to having to accomodate the tender drive mechanism - its not just the mountainous coal load!  So it looks like I'll be doing works tender swaps between 4021 and 4901 rather than using 3835.  In terms of colour, Hornby use the same shade for all three models...

 

As an aside - should Addersley Hall have such thick, virulently orange boiler lining? It certainly doesn't look like that on the webpage!

 

Another thing, Hornby seem to have deleted R3229 British Monarch, from their website. Completely.  This is why we need a decent printed catalogue, internet resources cannot be trusted over even a short period of time.

Edited March 17, 2016 by Hroth

[Coach bogie]

  Comparing the 3500 gal tenders on 4901 and 3835 I can see the gross malformation due to having to accomodate the tender drive mechanism - its not just the mountainous coal load! 

 I am curious as to what you mean as malformation. As a pre- WWI flush riveted tender is very close to the plans I have. I have used it for a 1930's condition City and it looks spot on to the images I modeled against. Using the Bachmann City Churchward underframe, the Hornby body is the correct width and height. The riveted tender with the Hornby 4901 are later Collett types, as most Churchward era tenders were flush sided.

 

Once the 'coal lump' has been removed and various details added, it looks the part in my opinion.

 

Mike Wiltshire

Edited March 17, 2016 by Coach bogie

[Hroth]

 I am curious as to what you mean as malformation. As a pre- WWI flush riveted tender is very close to the plans I have. I have used it for a 1930's condition City and it looks spot on to the images I modeled against. Using the Bachmann City Churchward underframe, the Hornby body is the correct width and height. The riveted tender with the Hornby 4901 are later Collett types, as most Churchward era tenders were flush sided.

city tender.jpg

 

Once the 'coal lump' has been removed and various details added, it looks the part in my opinion.

city tender 2.jpg

 

Mike Wiltshire

Like your City!

 

What I meant by "malformed" is that when viewed alongside each other the tender attached to 3835 County of Devon is of different proportions to the one attached to 4901 Addersley Hall.

 

Some measurements (rough not precision!):

             A     B       C     

3853    16    7       23

4091    14    6.5    30

 

(all dimensions in mm)

 

A: Depth of tender body

B: Depth of Fender

C: Distance between bunker rear bulkhead and rear of tender

 

In addition, as well as having less room on the rear deck of the tender for the water scoop vent and the water filler cap on 3853's tender (in fact the leading edge of the vent appears to be cut off by the bulkhead), the rear deck is also virtually level with the rim of the tender.

 

Added to this, the monsterous coal mound is merely the cherry on the top!

 

I appreciate that these dimensional differences date from the tender drive era and that nothing can really be done with the tender, other than scrapping it and finding a better one. The matter of flush vs rivets is of lesser importance than the changes made to incorporate the tender drive.  Thats why I described it as "malformed".

 

And for a mindbending discussion on the differences between Churchward and Collett 3500 gal tenders, there's a nice thread (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/89945-churchwardcollett-3500-gallon-tender-differences/ ) elsewhere on RMWeb!  I skimmed through it and I don't want to go there!

 

The only "City" tender I have is that that accompanies the Dapol City of Truro  kit so I can't vouch for its dimensional accuracy (or even era) apart from noting that it's identical to the tender that accompanies Hornbys "Achilles" class Single "Lorna Doone", which I assume must be a Dean pattern 3000 gal tender as its so much smaller!

 

[M.I.B]

Another thing, Hornby seem to have deleted R3229 British Monarch, from their website. Completely.  This is why we need a decent printed catalogue, internet resources cannot be trusted over even a short period of time.

 

What???????  The reverse is true:

 

A catalogue is valid and accurate on the day it is printed.  Some may even be out of date by the time they are released.

 

Inside the cover in very small print, will probably be a paragraph which says "Hornby reserves the right  blah blah blah to make any changes it feels like  blah blah blah"

 

A webpage,  editted and reviewed constantly (hourly, daily,weekly) is more accurate.

[Hroth]

What???????  The reverse is true:

 

A catalogue is valid and accurate on the day it is printed.  Some may even be out of date by the time they are released.

 

Inside the cover in very small print, will probably be a paragraph which says "Hornby reserves the right  blah blah blah to make any changes it feels like  blah blah blah"

 

A webpage,  editted and reviewed constantly (hourly, daily,weekly) is more accurate.

On the other hand, data printed in the catalogue is valid for the day its printed and then becomes a reference point for the future, unlike an "accurate" webpage which only documents the current state of play, meaning that previous versions vanish into the mists of the internet.

 

For the website to be more accurate, obsolete details or withdrawn items ought to be migrated to a readily available archive and labelled as such to prevent confusion. Managing information by deleting out of date material is an unhelpful and lazy way to do things.

[rovex]

I wish I could get the people who manage our website at work to understand that!

[Hilux5972]

Edited to remove post no longer needed.

Edited April 28, 2016 by Hilux5972