Leon Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Hello all, I was looking at Whitemoor Yard on google maps and was amazed at the size of the yard and in particular the length, can anyone tell me more about this yard, it seems in the middle on nowhere and looked mostly full of stone or ballast wagons? I have also heard the Wisbech branch talked about a lot, I followed the branch for near the yard to Wisbech, does not seem a lot there, what was there? No signs of an freight or industry? Thanks in advance I'm sure someone will know a lot about this area. Thanks Leon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted December 28, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 28, 2012 Whitemoor used to be a marshalling yard - built by the LNER (?) - In latter days it was also home to March diesel depot. It fell into disuse with the demise of wagonload freight until it was rebuilt a few years ago as the main infrastructure yard for the east of England and then later incorporated the National Track Material Recycling centre (NTMRC). It has a large facility for cleaning and grading old ballast, as well as large piles of rails and sleepers from track panels. Hence why it's full of ballast and rail wagons. The northern section of the yard is now occupied by Whitemoor prison. I have an idea to use Whitemoor as inspiration for a layout, including the Wisbech branch to add passenger interest. (See Langmoor link in sig) Not certain about the Wisbech branch - was it a petfood plant that kept the branch alive. Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrushType4 Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 The Wisbech branch is still existent and I believe there is a group trying to get it reopened. Last time I looked at it to move freight, it was discovered that the Petfood factory had built over the sidings and effectively cut off Wisbech for any freight movements. There was also a 10mph speed limit on the line so I expect that it is currently in poor repair. The closest place to move freight by rail out of the Wisbech area now is Potters Yard at Queen Adelaide, Ely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon Posted December 28, 2012 Author Share Posted December 28, 2012 Thanks Mick, it was you thread that I got me looking on google maps. Was Wisbech for freight or passenger? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 The yard at Whitemoor was opened on 3rd March, 1927, on the site of one built by the Great Eastern in the previous century. It was the first yard in the UK to use hydraulic rail brakes (retarders), supplied by the German firm of Frohlich. The German influence was very evident in the design of the control tower. There was originally a route heading north from the yard, to Spalding, thence Doncaster, known as the 'Joint Line'; this provided a direct route for coal from Yorkshire going towards London and East Anglia, avoiding congestion on the ECML. This route finally closed in the 1980s, through coal traffic having been reduced to one or two trains a day. Whilst the current yard looks massive, it's only about a quarter of the original site, which used to have seperate Up and Down yards (the latter having fewer retarders, as it mainly dealt with empty wagons), each with 40 roads. Wisbech used to receive inbound tinplate from Trostre, which was made into tin cans by Metal Box; these were sent to Paisley in Central Scotland to be filled with pet food, the same wagons returning full tins southwards for distribution. The Metal Box plant also supplied vegetable and processed food canneries in East Anglia. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted December 28, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 28, 2012 GBRF also stable locos there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted December 28, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 28, 2012 GBRF also stable locos there. Like this one? http://www.flickr.com/photos/57849754@N07/6042030185/ Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Couple of points from above posts: GBRF have their own facilty adjacent to the LC at the east of the station, in the old goods shed. The Wisbech "branch" was actually a through route to Kings Lynn, truncated in the 60's to form a branch from March. It is still there, totally disused for a number of years, though some of it takes some finding under the undergrowth! There is a Bramley Line society hoping to re-open it. The massive Whitemoor yard was at least 4 times the size of the yard recently re-opened, with both Up and Down marshalling yards. There was a large steam shed (actually 2 combined) of which a small part of 1 was modernised with a new diesel shed in the early 60s. I have acquired from somewhere a few scans of (possibly) magazine or book article with track plans and photos of this area, but for copyright reasons I cannot post. Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob D2 Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 I seem to recall a phot of " five alive" fruit juice being loaded at wisbech, or dud i imagine it ? There are loads of pics of whitemoor in the 70/80s. It was the major marshalling yard for anything goibg to the east side if london or coming diwn the east coast. Akways thought March would make a good depot layout... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 I seem to recall a phot of " five alive" fruit juice being loaded at wisbech, or dud i imagine it ? There are loads of pics of whitemoor in the 70/80s. It was the major marshalling yard for anything goibg to the east side if london or coming diwn the east coast. Akways thought March would make a good depot layout... I think you're correct about the fruit juice. I found references to Spillers owning an American company called 'Modern Maid Food Products'; 'Five Alive' was made by 'Minute Maid'.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvdlcs Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Hello. I went there on a few occasions when I lived in that part of the world, although I didn't arrive there until after the large Whitemoor Yard was disused (between Speedlink and rebuilding as an infrastructure depot). Some comments: March as a whole must have been a monster in its day, in railway terms. A station with four through platforms and a couple of bays with a main route running east and west (this still exists) plus the GN/GE joint line heading NW and the line to Wisbech (and one time Kings Lynn) heading NE. Add to this the Whitemoor marshalling yard, the MPD plus the goods sidings to the east of the station would make it a place of interest to just about anyone interested in railways. From memory there was another line (the fifth route) up to March from the south, but that was an early casualty of roads, possibly closing in the 1930s. I remember reading somewhere that at its peak, something like a third of the population of March were employed by the railway - and this in a rural (agricultural) area. The 'joint' line (presumably because it was originally operated by both GN and GE) was closed in 1982 and rendered unusable with almost indecent haste. Possibly the last major route closed by BR (the next was to be the Settle and Carlisle) and most likely regretted nowadays, as it is the missing link between Doncaster and London as an alternative to the ECML, trains having to join/leave the ECML at Peterborough if they want to avoid the southern section. As someone else said, the line to Wisbech originally went further but was truncated in the 1960s (Beeching?) and became freight only. Not sure what the advantage in reopening this would be as the pet food place was on the southern edge of Wisbech and that was the first place you would reach after March, so if the route is blocked there what is left isn't much more than a lengthy siding. The other consideration would be the large number of level crossings (the line seems to intersect with every road in the area), which were latterly hand operated by the train crew. I never saw the MPD but having stood on the road perpendicular to the site and where the end of the sidings would be it must've been an interesting site. No high fences or walls to obstruct the view; you drive up the road and you would find buffer stops perpendicular to the road with locos parked there. Probably much like the goods sidings that were on the eastern side of the level crossing at the station. Look for photos on flickr etc. to see what I mean. Hope this helps, David. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrushType4 Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 A few if's... If the line was reopened, if the freight loading facilities where still in place etc then there is enough local production/suppliers to support at least a daily service to Scotland and possibly other locations as well. Probably far short of the minimum requirement to keep the line open and with the number of level crossings highlighted above it would seem very unlikely that this line will ever be operational again. It's just about possible to compete with road to Scotland from the Wisbech area via the freight facilities at Ely but just now it's not enough to justify a service. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 If the demand was there it would be relatively easy to build a revenue freight terminal alongside the NR facilities and sharing the main line connection. Probably no problems with planning either given that it is next to an existing railway site, and Peterborough-Ely is now a major strategic freight route with extra capacity being put in. Road access looks reasonable (on a map at least) so a possible alternative to the Spalding terminal idea which seems to have been killed off. On the other hand I think reopening the Joint line to Spalding is unlikely. Only a fraction of the Felixstowe freight goes via Doncaster and there is little prospect of much other freight into the London area, as the only terminal sites are around Dagenham/Tilbury (which also connects to HS1). The ECML has direct access to the Tilbury line without a run-round, much of it south of Peterborough has four tracks and it is probably more able to add extra freight than the route via Bishops Stortford. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon Posted December 29, 2012 Author Share Posted December 29, 2012 Thanks guys some very interesting answers, I'm still curious as to the location of the former yardin the speed link days, seems a bit remote and away from any major towns or cities, was it sited there purely from a main railway perspective as it was part of a mainline? Thanks Leon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkC Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 A point to ponder - if the line hasn't been formally closed, then surely the pet food plant would be obliged to clear the route so that it could be reopened at its own expense? Wasn't there some argument about 'disused' against 'abandoned' relating to the MCR route near Leek recently? Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Thanks guys some very interesting answers, I'm still curious as to the location of the former yardin the speed link days, seems a bit remote and away from any major towns or cities, was it sited there purely from a main railway perspective as it was part of a mainline? Thanks Leon It did serve an area with quite a few important Speedlink flows; CIBA-Geigy from Duxford, various flows from King's Lynn, and most importantly, the train-ferry traffic from Harwich. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrushType4 Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 A point to ponder - if the line hasn't been formally closed, then surely the pet food plant would be obliged to clear the route so that it could be reopened at its own expense? Wasn't there some argument about 'disused' against 'abandoned' relating to the MCR route near Leek recently? Mark Nothing remains of Wisbech station, site having been entirely redeveloped into a housing development. The old Wisbech East goods yard was acquired by Nestlé Purina from Railtrack in 1995 and was last used in 2000; most of the yard now forms part of the factory and its car park. The last pet food train called in Summer 2000. The freight-branch remains in place and runs as far as Weasenham Lane in Wisbech where the former level crossing was tarmaced over in 2005 so unfortunately tracks are there to a point but no access. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 March Whitemoor Yard is well written up and illustrated in Rhodes, Michael (1988) An Illustrated history of British Marshalling Yards. Pub by Haynes Publishing Group, Sparkford, 247pp. ISBN 0 86093 367 9. Although it may look remote, there was considerable traffic generated locally. Many thousands of "fruit" vans were allocated there. Although the mechanised yard opened in 1929, the book illustrates an extensive yard from much earlier. However the most important use was as the main freight route on the LNER from north to south. In the days when freight trains did well to average 20mph the GNML (ECML) was very limited in capacity; Potter Bar tunnels were only 2 track, as Welwyn viaduct which continues to be a bottleneck. Four track railway was really a necessity for freight until air braking became standardised (as the MR out of St. P) so, instead of the GNML it was this alternative route which was used. The book has a good diagram showing the connections with Yorkshire and Derbyshire coalfields, it wasn't out of the way at all (although why Spalding wasn't chosen isn't clear!). March had a separate yard the other side of the station and level crossing which in later years homed the ER fleet of ferry wagons. I don't have a photo collection for Whitemoor, so only some of them (211) show up in http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/search.html?q=whitemoor and even less in http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/?q=march I first made an official visit to Whitemoor on a very wet day in November 1976; it was enormous! Paul Bartlett Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkC Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Nothing remains of Wisbech station, site having been entirely redeveloped into a housing development. The old Wisbech East goods yard was acquired by Nestlé Purina from Railtrack in 1995 and was last used in 2000; most of the yard now forms part of the factory and its car park. The last pet food train called in Summer 2000. The freight-branch remains in place and runs as far as Weasenham Lane in Wisbech where the former level crossing was tarmaced over in 2005 so unfortunately tracks are there to a point but no access. Ah, understood. Thanks for the info. Much appreciated. Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 This was the last box diagram from March East Junction that had not only the Loco, but the remains of Whitemoor Up Side and Wisbech Line in use together. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 I think it must be difficult if not impossible for anyone under 50 to appreciate just how much freight there used to be on the railways, and the complexity (and danger) of handling it. If you Google "March marshalling yard" the first thing that comes up is a 1963 film by Anglia TV showing how the yards operated and giving some idea of the size of them. Towards the end of the film the point is made that they have only been discussing the "down"-ie away from East Anglia towards the Midlands-yard and that is only half of it. ISTR there were large flat yards as well as the hump or gravity yards, but perhaps someone will correct me on this? There was of course a very large loco shed in steam days, which were starting to come to an end by the time this film was made. Most of the loco's are Brush 2's or class 31's which of course are also nearly extinct now. Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 ISTR there were large flat yards as well as the hump or gravity yards, but perhaps someone will correct me on this? There was of course a very large loco shed in steam days, which were starting to come to an end by the time this film was made. Most of the loco's are Brush 2's or class 31's which of course are also nearly extinct now. Ed Whitemoor consisted of the down hump reception, 10 roads that led to of all thing's, the down hump. The down hump itself dealt with wagons returning north that were most likely to get fine shunted again elsewhere. Nestling between the down hump reception and the joint line was Norwood Yard. This yard had many functions but to list a few it had a tranship shed, provided a location for block loads/express freights heading north to be examined and trains drawn back from the down hump could be fine shunted as required. Norwood Yard had a 17 lever groundframe at the north end to help with flat shunting. This groundframe has featured in a thread on RMweb some time ago. The up side was more interesting. There was the up hump reception leading to the up hump. The up hump refined what arrived from the north or south into trains for London, East Anglia or destinations north or west. Then there was the up hump departures. Completed trains were brought forward to here and the brakevan was added via gravity and prepared/examined for departure north or south, trains heading south could turn east or west as required. At the far end of the up hump was the east side ground frame. this controlled 11 sidings for fine tuning the East Anglian drop off freights. The place was totally fascinating. Andy Rush is far more qualified to comment on it than i am. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Grassmoor, right in the middle of Whitemoor.. http://www.flickr.com/photos/pwayowen/7851271772/in/photostream Norwood Yard. http://www.flickr.com/photos/pwayowen/7678711878/in/photostream Hopefully Twenty Feet River and Whitemoor Junction to follow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted December 29, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 29, 2012 Grassmoor, right in the middle of Whitemoor.. http://www.flickr.com/photos/pwayowen/7851271772/in/photostream Norwood Yard. http://www.flickr.com/photos/pwayowen/7678711878/in/photostream Hopefully Twenty Feet River and Whitemoor Junction to follow. Nice, and had a peruse at some of the other boxes too Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 This is TFR, the diagram was in our hands only for a short time and the only way to copy it in a hurry was to plonk it on top of a photocopier.. A refined version is on the cards.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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