RMweb Gold DaveF Posted January 16, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 16, 2013 I've been a member for a number of years and find the Journal invaluable, I enjoy the articles even when they are beyond my technical ability, I can still pick up ideas. The adverts are very useful as are the new products items and reviews - again whether they cover things I am very interested in or not I can still get useful information, including forming an opinion of particular manufacturers' ranges and quality. I happen to model the Midland circa 1910 in 7mm, but find articles covering any period are of interest, I try to keep an open mind so always read modern image articles. After all most techniques are applicable to all periods. So I find it good value for money, even though I have not joined the (fairly) local group, mainly owing to time pressures - I'm interested in far too many things besides railways. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted January 16, 2013 Author Share Posted January 16, 2013 There have been several posts about "what do I get for my money?". I get the impression that some people feel that signing up to the G0G is like dealing with a second-hand car salesman That was my original question - one that nobody yet had been able to fully answer. Many people have answered that they feel they get good value for the £24 and then compare it to half a wagon kit or whatever, and that's fine, but for someone that a) doesn't model steam, b) doesn't like working in brass, c) can only get to Reading (which is not a GOG organised event) and at a stretch Bristol (which is also not a GOG organised event), I'm still not entirely convinved that it would be good value for me. The fabled magazine may well be of excellent quality - but without an old back issue free to download on their web site (Modelling Inspiration style) then it's very difficult to visualise whether, again, it has items that will be of interest to "you". Perhaps I'm overcomplicating things, perhaps I should just pony up my £24 and be done with it, then complain if necessary afterwards, but like many modellers I am on a tight budget where £24 actually isn't "small change" - ok some may say that if it is then O gauge modelling perhaps isn't for me, but what it does mean is that progress is slow for me on my layout, I have to think carefully about my modelling purchases, or at least rolling stock purchases. Hopefully in a few days - snow permitting - I can have a good chat with the guild rep at Bristol and put some of my questions to rest at least. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 There have been several posts about "what do I get for my money?". I get the impression that some people feel that signing up to the G0G is like dealing with a second-hand car salesman... the CD version of theTechnical Manual at the moment is priced at £7.50 - in relative terms that equates to a pair of 7mm wagon axles and wheels or ~50% of a DCC decoder. If people are thinking that 7mm modelling is going to get cheaper (when compared to 4mm) then they are going to be in for a shock... alternatively, the Technical Manual is way underpriced... can someone please explain what the issue is?... dilbert I don't think there's any call for that sort of reply. I asked a simple question and expected a simple answer. The "issue" is that I would like to know what is contained within this manual. If it doesn't tell me anything that I don't already know then it isn't worth a penny. Of course I'm not saying that it doesn't contain anything I don't know, or that I know everything that there is to know already but it would be nice to know what's in it so I can decide if it adds value to my (potential) membership or not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
two tone green Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 I have a Guild mag here with me so I will pass it on to you at the show. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnaby Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Here these 2 links might answer most of the questions for you Crompton. The first one is off the guild page while the second one is Raymond Walley's own 7mm web site, I hope the mentioned titles don't mind me posting the links here. Then if you have any questions go visit the 0 gauge stand at Bristol for an explanation, I think you would only benifit from joining. http://www.gauge0guild.com/introduction.asp http://www.raymondwalley.com/guild/about.html Best regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 The G0G people at Bristol will have sample mags for you to look at and take away - they did at Reading. They also took time out of their stand-attending and literally took me by the hand (OK, almost literally!) and we visited almost all the kit manufacturers at the show, talked to the owners about their suitability for beginners, and their advice and tips. I felt like the most valued potential member on the planet. It was on the strength of that outstanding courtesy that I joined. The mag lists many traders and suppliers that don't advertise or make themselves known elsewhere, and there are some quality products out there that I plan to buy one day. The website forum is OK (not as good as here, for example) but extremely friendly and welcomes beginners with open arms - including those who prefer RTR. The archive mag resource is brilliant and must have taken some time to do. I was researching on it yesterday in fact, for soldering white metal techniques. There are also quite a few plastic kit builds and reviews available to read. If you want to buy or sell used kits and models there's a place for that too. In all honesty, everything they offer can be replicated with a couple hours research on the web, and if you're not able to attend shows perhaps it may not be worth it for you. For me, the way that I was treated made me feel like I owe them at least a years sub and I'm pretty sure I'll carry on subscribing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dilbert Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 I don't think there's any call for that sort of reply. I asked a simple question and expected a simple answer. The "issue" is that I would like to know what is contained within this manual. If it doesn't tell me anything that I don't already know then it isn't worth a penny. Of course I'm not saying that it doesn't contain anything I don't know, or that I know everything that there is to know already but it would be nice to know what's in it so I can decide if it adds value to my (potential) membership or not. I thought I gave a simple answer - a value related reply. There again, instead of cherry-picking, you may have something to give in return that you don't recognise for the moment? ... dilbert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 I thought I gave a simple answer - a value related reply. There again, instead of cherry-picking, you may have something to give in return that you don't recognise for the moment? ... dilbert Sorry, my friend, if that is a simple answer then you are too clever for me. I asked "Can someone please explain what is contained in this Technical Manual?". I cannot see an explanation of what it contains anywhere in your reply. There have been several posts about "what do I get for my money?". I get the impression that some people feel that signing up to the G0G is like dealing with a second-hand car salesman... the CD version of theTechnical Manual at the moment is priced at £7.50 - in relative terms that equates to a pair of 7mm wagon axles and wheels or ~50% of a DCC decoder. If people are thinking that 7mm modelling is going to get cheaper (when compared to 4mm) then they are going to be in for a shock... alternatively, the Technical Manual is way underpriced... can someone please explain what the issue is?... dilbert Could you please clarify which part the above answer tells me what the manual contains? Thank you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dilbert Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Sorry, my friend, if that is a simple answer then you are too clever for me. I asked "Can someone please explain what is contained in this Technical Manual?". I cannot see an explanation of what it contains anywhere in your reply. http://www.gauge0guild.com/manual.asp - Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mike Bellamy Posted January 16, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 16, 2013 I don't think there's any call for that sort of reply. I asked a simple question and expected a simple answer. The "issue" is that I would like to know what is contained within this manual. If it doesn't tell me anything that I don't already know then it isn't worth a penny. Of course I'm not saying that it doesn't contain anything I don't know, or that I know everything that there is to know already but it would be nice to know what's in it so I can decide if it adds value to my (potential) membership or not. Part 1 : Basic Information The basic information part contains a description of all the major standards which are common in O Gauge, including coarse, fine and Scale Seven. Accurate dimensions of track standards, wheelset standards, wheel profiles, and track clearances are provided. These details, when followed by both individuals and traders, will result in compatibility between different models and smooth running. The Guild's code of practice is included as well as a list of traders specialising in various aspects of the hobby. Part 2 : Track This part deals with all aspects of track design and construction. Many photos of the prototype are used to illustrate the different types of track formation and drawings with dimensions provide useful reference when building one's own track. Detailed notes on how to make model track are included. Part 3 : Locomotive Construction This part tackles the task of choosing the right motor and gearbox for your locomotive. The different types of motor and gears are described, and formulae provided to allow the best combination to be selected for a particular loco. Finally, a section covers the building of loco chassis for both steam and diesel outline. Part 4 : Rolling Stock Construction This short part contains details of different ways to make rigid model wagon chassis run well on model track. These include springing, simple compensation, and pivoting of 6 wheel chassis to cope with tighter curves on models than on the prototype. Draw gear is also described, with different ways of springing the buffers and couplings. Part 5 : Tramways and Light Rail Being developed. Part 6 : Signalling and Telecommunications The different types of signal are described, along with some details of how they would have been used. Typical layouts of signals are given and drawn to illustrate the correct use of signals on the layout. Part 7 : Layout Design and Realisation Covering some suggested ways of building the layout, including how to make open frame boards from ply, this part considers may aspects of layout design. Reading this will help prevent false starts. Part 8 : Electrical An invaluable aid to good electrical design, this part is a comprehensive study of how to wire up the layout. Simple drawings help explain how to switch polarity at points and where to position breaks in the track to provide sections. Multiple controllers are covered, as well as cab control and zone control. Part 9 : Live Steam This part starts with a short history of live steam in O Gauge and compares different ways of firing the loco. Safety is considered as well as tools and the various machines that would make live steam a reality. Detailed drawing of useful components such as pumps are provided. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giles Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 I joined the Gauge 0 Guild for two basic reasons. First, they provide a very good magazine with the specialist information that I like, and have their 'ear to the ground' for my particular interest. They stage some very good shows which I thoroughly enjoy attending at a discounted rate. Secondly, they Guild fosters, encourages and forwards the hobby in anyway it can, and has done over the years - and I am very happy to help support them in this. The 0 gauge world would probably be less developed and less well supported (particularly by the smaller suppliers) if the Guild had never existed. Added to which there are even things like the Executor & Trustee service which is an extraordinary help, when you think about it...... Absolutely, the Guild won't be for everyone but I take my hat off to them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Turnbull Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Any society reflects the interests of its members and there is no doubt that the Guild is comprised mainly of more mature types who are only interested in perpetuating the “golden age of steam” whenever they consider that to be. The modeller of the “non-steam” railway is thus poorly served. That comment should not be taken to imply that there is any official bias against such modellers as I know for a fact that the current editor of the Gazette is more than happy to publish articles on all subjects if submitted. However, because of the make-up of the Guild membership, articles reflecting anything other than the “golden age of steam” rarely are. Much has been made of “boutique” manufacturers (what a quaint term). Yes, there are such manufacturers but, once again, they tend to concentrate on the “golden age of steam” presumably because that is where the bulk market lies. The number of manufacturers concentrating on non-steam items you can count on the fingers of one hand and they do not necessarily advertise in the Gazette. What many of the contributors to this thread have overlooked is that “cromptonnut” models the 1980s. Consequently, I would suggest that membership of the Guild would bring limited benefits. If “cromptonnut’s” funds are limited my advice would be to keep his £24 and have a chat with Peter Clark, PR Model Railways or one of the few other manufacturers who cater for his tastes. Chris Turnbull Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted January 17, 2013 Author Share Posted January 17, 2013 The modeller of the “non-steam” railway is thus poorly served. That comment should not be taken to imply that there is any official bias against such modellers as I know for a fact that the current editor of the Gazette is more than happy to publish articles on all subjects if submitted. However, because of the make-up of the Guild membership, articles reflecting anything other than the “golden age of steam” rarely are. An obvious answer to that situation, of course, is for those members (or potential members) who do model "non steam" to make a point of submitting articles and starting to changing that balance and make it more appealing to "non steam" modellers. I'm "only" 40 so steam had disappeared before I was born - and I guess I'm similar to those modelling steam merely remembering "the railways of their childhood". Rather than A4's, Castles and suchlike my trains happen to be "banger blue" diesels. When people say "the golden age of steam" is it always the big 12 carriage expresses or does that also include the run-down little forgotten backwaters that struggled on mostly unrecorded by the photographers of the time? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poggy1165 Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 An obvious answer to that situation, of course, is for those members (or potential members) who do model "non steam" to make a point of submitting articles and starting to changing that balance and make it more appealing to "non steam" modellers. . When people say "the golden age of steam" is it always the big 12 carriage expresses or does that also include the run-down little forgotten backwaters that struggled on mostly unrecorded by the photographers of the time? I couldn't agree more about people needing to submit articles. In essence, the position of the 'modern' brigade is no different to what mine would be if I demanded more focus on the GCR circa 1914. The GOG Gazette editor would, I am sure, be delighted to have a wider range of articles to publish, but someone has to be prepared to write them - gratis. I can't speak for others, but as far as I am concerned the 'golden age of steam' was largely concerned with shifting vast quantities of coal and fish, often over steep inclines and very often in obscure backwaters. It certainly (as far as I am concerned) has nothing to do with the BR steam era I remember, 90% clapped out rust buckets. But you see, that's the beauty of railway modelling, We don't all 'do' the same thing, and it would be dead boring if we did. Again, speaking for myself alone, I am saddened by the fact that so many modellers seem only to be interested in the stuff they themselves specialise in. There is a whole wide world out there, including Continental models, USA, tramcars, narrow gauge, even Emett railways. I can appreciate them all, if well done. So 7mm scale diesels are fine by me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted January 17, 2013 Author Share Posted January 17, 2013 I too have more interests than my space and budget allow. Currently looking at building some sort of contraption to attach to the legs of my O gauge layout to allow "stacking" so I can build at least one more layout a foot or so above it so I can at least have two projects on the go in my limited space. I have lots of 4mm DCC stock and 2mm non DCC stock, and both are just crying out to me to build something with them. I'd also like to have a go at american N (long trains through countryside) and also do something with my N gauge trams. At least one narrow gauge project in some scale combination is also something that interests me, having had a nice trip on the Teifi Valley Railway last year. Never really felt the urge to modern "european" railways as such but perhaps that's because I've never travelled on them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Turnbull Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 An obvious answer to that situation, of course, is for those members (or potential members) who do model "non steam" to make a point of submitting articles and starting to changing that balance and make it more appealing to "non steam" modellers. Yes, that would be nice if there are those who have the skill and inclination to write something. Not everyone is able to pen an article and take suitable photographs or is prepared to do so for no reimbursement even of out-of-pocket expenses. With pitifully few Guild members interested in the "modern" scene the list of potential authors grows thin. In message #49 Mike Boucher makes mention of an "article making operating signals on a 'current day' layout". I guess he is referring to my article "The Joy of Interlocking" which appeared in the February 2007 Gazette accompanied, I am proud to say, by a photograph of one of my class 153s on the front cover. This was but one of several articles I have penned over the years but other authors of similar subjects seem few and far between. See http://www.gauge0guild.com/gazette.asp Chris Turnbull Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted January 17, 2013 Author Share Posted January 17, 2013 Some interesting articles there, I hadn't found that page previously but I see what you mean about the "decidedly steam content" I have, over the years, had a few articles published in ModelRail so you never know what might happen... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnaby Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Hello Gents Just for my benefit can someone tell if the links I posted @ Post 56 above work. As I don't understand why people are still asking questions that are answered by them. Are those asking the questions not bothering to read the posts or do the links not work for them. Similary Mike B's post at # 61 seems to have been ignored. Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted January 17, 2013 Author Share Posted January 17, 2013 Barnaby, I don't know who you were referring to in your question but I hadn't seen that post - must have skipped past it. The links do work for me. The "official line" v "users experience" is one of the things that I was wanting to understand - of course, any official site for anything always shows it in the best light it can, but sometimes the user's view is that things don't always live up to the promise. There are some very differing views in this thread, which is to be fair what I expected. But as always, the perennial question of "is it good value" verses "does it suit what I need in terms of my particular modelling standards/interests" is the one that nobody else can really answer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian daniels Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Links worked ok for me Barnaby. If it wasn't for the GoG I doubt we would have the shows that we do have. I hold my hand up in that I should do articles on my diesel models but I could not write to save my life. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnaby Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Thanks Crompton. yes you were one of the ones asking questions but as the site in question has a members only section I was not sure if it would reveal to you what it reveals to me being a member. I notice that you have bits and pices from most scales maybe nows the time to cash them in and focus on 0 gauge go on you know you want to, then you could cover your costs at least for one years subs. Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Yes, that would be nice if there are those who have the skill and inclination to write something. Not everyone is able to pen an article and take suitable photographs or is prepared to do so for no reimbursement even of out-of-pocket expenses. With pitifully few Guild members interested in the "modern" scene the list of potential authors grows thin. Chris Turnbull In that statement aren't you creating or encouraging a self-perpetuating problem? If you dissuade modern-image modellers from joining - and possibly contributing - there will obviously be nothing to interest them. If you continue that line of thought to its extreme, the current steam modellers will (unfortunately) die out and the Guild will cease to exist as a viable concern. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnaby Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Thanks Brian D and cor you got some beautiful photos on your webby. I'm sure I have read in the mag that you can ask for help or they will knock into shape and articles they receive for mag presentation. Give it a go. Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted January 17, 2013 Author Share Posted January 17, 2013 Brian, depending on what help is needed, I'm sure there are people on here that might be willing to help "tidy up" possible articles too, and take photos if they're close enough to you. I'm not close enough to help with photos (at least unless I'm specifically heading that way, and I don't have the best camera anyway) but would certainly be happy to assist with "tidying up" or even typing articles if you wanted to submit. Barnaby, if I had more room available I may well sell some of my smaller stock (2mm/4mm) to fund further O projects but at the moment my space is limited so not much further stock is required (some lengths of flexi but that's about it at the moment) so I see little point in "cashing in". This is my first ever attempt at an O gauge layout and, by using my skills and experiences learnt in 30+ years of modelling (albeit I'm no expert) so far everything seems to be going ok, it's finding stuff when as others have said many of the smaller suppliers don't advertise outside the guild magazine that's my problem. Nth, as well as "modern image modellers" don't forget that in the 50's and forwards there were diesels around as well as steam; to me "modern image" means the current railway scene (give or take a few years) rather than "anything that runs on diesel instead of coal" But I dare say the semantics of that argument are best left to elsewhere... Can't find a Guild facebook page - is there one? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnaby Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 You crack me up Crompton IS THERE A GUILD FACEBOOK PAGE, lol it's still steam radio I think. The short answer is no but I have to say the site is very stable and reliable. Wiping the tears of laughter from my eyes but still gigling I'm off up the garden to my workshop . . . . . IS THERE A FACEBOOK PAGE LOL Best regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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