Denbridge Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 3 hours ago, john new said: Oh it did, saw it do so at York Assembly rooms. Sound track fastest train etc, then oops.... Wasn’t that also the layout that finished the sequence with a rat. The rat was a feature of the layouts by Roy Jackson and friends. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-A-T Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 They had a Class 25??!! Thought they were dyed in the wool steam men..... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunwurken Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 12 hours ago, St Enodoc said: During the 1990s this version of Charford was dismantled and replaced by a new version, which incorporated part of the main line as well. By July 2001, due to John's failing eyesight, the line closed and was dismantled for good. Charford Station and the more recent Marshwood Junction boards were saved and continued under the ownership of other modellers, as did some of the locos and stock. John I did not realise Charford and Marshwood had survived. I wonder if John was a like P D Hancock in that every time the layout was dismantled and rebuilt parts of the previous layout(s) were included in the rebuilt layout. Look into Dundreich and parts of Craigshire dating back to the earliest days of layout can be found. Wonder if the present version of Charford is the same? Malcolm 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted November 23, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 23, 2019 2 hours ago, dunwurken said: John I did not realise Charford and Marshwood had survived. I wonder if John was a like P D Hancock in that every time the layout was dismantled and rebuilt parts of the previous layout(s) were included in the rebuilt layout. Look into Dundreich and parts of Craigshire dating back to the earliest days of layout can be found. Wonder if the present version of Charford is the same? Malcolm Malcolm, I'll drop Phil Knife a line and ask him if he knows where Charford and Marshwood are and, if he does, whether he is allowed to tell me. Phil's article suggested strongly that the original Charford boards survived through all the later incarnations, so wherever Charford now is it will be essentially the same Charford as was started 66 years ago. I'll also try to find his earlier article, which predates my BRMA membership but which I will have somewhere in a box of older issues donated to me by the widow of a late member. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 3 hours ago, dunwurken said: John I did not realise Charford and Marshwood had survived. I wonder if John was a like P D Hancock in that every time the layout was dismantled and rebuilt parts of the previous layout(s) were included in the rebuilt layout. Look into Dundreich and parts of Craigshire dating back to the earliest days of layout can be found. Wonder if the present version of Charford is the same? Malcolm John Charman, PDH, and Peter Denny all built their layouts at a time when resources were tight (coming off the back of wartime shortages) so were inclined to reuse materials wherever possible, even when materials became more freely available again. PDH in his later years related his shock at seeing people throwing away perfectly usable pieces of timber. I've also heard one of Peter's sons saying that he and one of his brothers came home from University to find Peter had dismantled their TT layout (itself a 'classic layout' to my mind) to reuse the baseboards for Buckingham - the outlines of the track can apparently still be seen underneath parts of Buckingham. Even a brake van Peter built to the wrong scale found further use as a grounded van body on Buckingham, and Malcolm has related elsewhere how one of PDH's coaches has recently been rediscovered as a grounded body on one of the E&LMRC's layouts! These gentlemen didn't throw things away unless there was really no further use for them (although of course PDH in particular was known to give items away). 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunwurken Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 14 minutes ago, RJS1977 said: (although of course PDH in particular was known to give items away). Don't I know it. Whilst we know where some items are there is a lengthy list of items we have no idea whether they still exist or, if they do exist where they currently reside. Welcome to the frustrating world of the model railway historian! Not only did he give things away he bought and sold through the small ads in the mags. etc. etc. PDH dabbled in many branches of our hobby and many an unsuspecting modeller will have in his collection a model that was at one time owned by him. Malcolm 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific231G Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 (edited) On 21/11/2019 at 02:10, DavidB-AU said: A few photos of the layout here: https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/74169-pre-grouping-layouts/&do=findComment&comment=2887404 But I can't recall ever seeing a plan. Cheers David You have now! David I've sent it as a PM Jan 1968 RM It's interesting reading the article. It was a home layout built by Vivien Thomson with her husband Ken but with her doing most of it. She referred to it as our layout but then talked about how "I decided to model Eastbourne in summer 1909". It sounds like they both had somethnig to do with it, she mentions Ken doing research on LBSC signals in the British Museum (It wouldnow be the British library) but she was the lead partner in the project. It also sounds like Ken was a Rugby fan or player as she writes about finding things on the way to a match. At the time of the 1968 article they also had a pre-school son. She said that track making was beyond her so used Formoway, most of it salvaged from the previous layout and that "the remainder of the trackwork was laid and ballasted as and when funds permitted" and points were operated by straegically placed Farish levers the cost of solenoids being "prohibitive". She/they were clearly building Eastbourne on a budget. Scratchbuilt buildings don't cost a lot of course but she was also building rolling stock and, as a mainline terminus the layout had quite a lot of that. Edited November 24, 2019 by Pacific231G 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5050 Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 (edited) On 23/11/2019 at 10:25, john new said: Wasn’t that also the layout that finished the sequence with a rat. No, that would have been one of Roy Jackson and friends creations such as 'High Dyke' or 'Dunwich', hooked onto the end of the last train of the day. A two-wheeled EM gauge bright red rat running at a scale 80mph. Priceless. Edited November 24, 2019 by 5050 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunwurken Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 16 hours ago, St Enodoc said: Malcolm, I'll drop Phil Knife a line and ask him if he knows where Charford and Marshwood are and, if he does, whether he is allowed to tell me. Phil's article suggested strongly that the original Charford boards survived through all the later incarnations, so wherever Charford now is it will be essentially the same Charford as was started 66 years ago. I'll also try to find his earlier article, which predates my BRMA membership but which I will have somewhere in a box of older issues donated to me by the widow of a late member. John As the E&LMRC historian I would very much appreciate learning the whereabouts of Charford (on an 'in confidence' basis if necessary). I would also appreciate scans of both articles by Phil Knife if that is possible. I have scans of many of the articles on Charford. When I started trawling the model railway magazine's compiling a list of all P D Hancock's articles and letters I took the opportunity to scan, for the club archives, any articles by the other ELMRC worthies John Charman, Ken Northwood and Sir Eric Hutchison so I have a fairly comprehensive but I suspect incomplete collection of their articles from MRN, RM & MRC and in Hancock's case some of the American mags. Eventually once I have completed my work on PDH I will go back and complete the research on the others whose written exploits are, thankfully, somewhat less prolific. Malcolm 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gerbil-Fritters Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 It's not a layout as such, but does anyone recall Peco's advert for their track system which was a replica of the Waterloo station throat? Possibly late 60s early 70s? I may have hallucinated it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 Much later than that - early/mid 90s I think. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium New Haven Neil Posted November 24, 2019 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted November 24, 2019 Wasn't that the Farish Formoway advert? Used to be on the back cover of the Modeller. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted November 24, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 24, 2019 15 minutes ago, dunwurken said: John As the E&LMRC historian I would very much appreciate learning the whereabouts of Charford (on an 'in confidence' basis if necessary). I would also appreciate scans of both articles by Phil Knife if that is possible. I have scans of many of the articles on Charford. When I started trawling the model railway magazine's compiling a list of all P D Hancock's articles and letters I took the opportunity to scan, for the club archives, any articles by the other ELMRC worthies John Charman, Ken Northwood and Sir Eric Hutchison so I have a fairly comprehensive but I suspect incomplete collection of their articles from MRN, RM & MRC and in Hancock's case some of the American mags. Eventually once I have completed my work on PDH I will go back and complete the research on the others whose written exploits are, thankfully, somewhat less prolific. Malcolm Perhaps an Excel spreadsheet posted here would help, then others may be able to point you in the right direction? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium DLT Posted November 25, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 25, 2019 The later version of the Charford Branch, which included the mainline at Marshwood Junction, was featured in Model Railway Journal No.100 in 1998. The trackplan was in the following edition, 101 Cheers, Dave. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold JohnR Posted November 25, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 25, 2019 15 hours ago, kevinlms said: Perhaps an Excel spreadsheet posted here would help, then others may be able to point you in the right direction? Heres one I prepared earlier.... https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1l1rIdVU2-DY4WC8lEsbpyKwaQe9vQDJnGLhHOc6hbII/edit?usp=sharing 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted November 25, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 25, 2019 25 minutes ago, JohnR said: Heres one I prepared earlier.... https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1l1rIdVU2-DY4WC8lEsbpyKwaQe9vQDJnGLhHOc6hbII/edit?usp=sharing Some notable members indeed! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted November 25, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 25, 2019 23 hours ago, dunwurken said: John As the E&LMRC historian I would very much appreciate learning the whereabouts of Charford (on an 'in confidence' basis if necessary). I would also appreciate scans of both articles by Phil Knife if that is possible. I have scans of many of the articles on Charford. When I started trawling the model railway magazine's compiling a list of all P D Hancock's articles and letters I took the opportunity to scan, for the club archives, any articles by the other ELMRC worthies John Charman, Ken Northwood and Sir Eric Hutchison so I have a fairly comprehensive but I suspect incomplete collection of their articles from MRN, RM & MRC and in Hancock's case some of the American mags. Eventually once I have completed my work on PDH I will go back and complete the research on the others whose written exploits are, thankfully, somewhat less prolific. Malcolm For Peter Denny, there is a photo of his garden railway in RM for 1998 October Page 488. Not sure if you want this sort of stuff or just articles? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific231G Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 On 27/01/2013 at 18:46, The Stationmaster said: Frank Dyer's Borchester - always for me a demonstration that you could build a model of an operationally logical railway doing what such a railway would have done had it been real. I couldn't agree more Mike and I've managed to get a complete run of Frank Dyer's articles in MRJ. I was very grateful to the group that managed to preserve and exhibit it for a few years allowing me to see it in action three or four times. It was one of those layouts, like Bradfield Gloucester Road now, that I found myself standing and watching for ages as a proper set of operations were carried out properly and it wasn't even all that large. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gerbil-Fritters Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 On 24/11/2019 at 16:52, New Haven Neil said: Wasn't that the Farish Formoway advert? Used to be on the back cover of the Modeller. ooh, anyone got a picture? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunwurken Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 29 minutes ago, Pacific231G said: I couldn't agree more Mike and I've managed to get a complete run of Frank Dyer's articles in MRJ. I was very grateful to the group that managed to preserve and exhibit it for a few years allowing me to see it in action three or four times. It was one of those layouts, like Bradfield Gloucester Road now, that I found myself standing and watching for ages as a proper set of operations were carried out properly and it wasn't even all that large. David Am I correct in saying that Borchester was sold about two years ago to someone in Lancashire? Malcolm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunwurken Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 (edited) 23 hours ago, JohnR said: Here's one I prepared earlier.... https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1l1rIdVU2-DY4WC8lEsbpyKwaQe9vQDJnGLhHOc6hbII/edit?usp=sharing It would appear we both used the same Charford / Charman index placed online back in 2009 by I think 'Caddy'. My Charman index has an article on Railbuilt Signals dating from 1966 and I have an expanded 'Related Letters & Articles' section three items of which date from the original publication of 'Cuddys' index. All additions highlighted in red on the attached. PD's list index of articles will take longer to check but there will be additions, eg his USA articles. Malcolm Charford Articles Index - revised Nov 2019 by Malcolm MacLeod, on Flickr Edited November 26, 2019 by dunwurken Cuddy to Caddy 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 7 hours ago, kevinlms said: For Peter Denny, there is a photo of his garden railway in RM for 1998 October Page 488. Not sure if you want this sort of stuff or just articles? Kevin, I think Malcolm is only thinking of compiling histories of past E&LMRC members, of which Peter was not one. Tony Gee (TBG) is the Denny expert. Richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunwurken Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 28 minutes ago, RJS1977 said: Kevin, I think Malcolm is only thinking of compiling histories of past E&LMRC members, of which Peter was not one. Tony Gee (TBG) is the Denny expert. Richard You are correct Richard, I am limiting myself to Hancock, Charman, Northwood and Hutchison. Life is too short to cast the net wider though Don Rowland and W Loch Kidston would be obvious candidates if I did expand it further. Malcolm 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted November 25, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 25, 2019 5 minutes ago, dunwurken said: You are correct Richard, I am limiting myself to Hancock, Charman, Northwood and Hutchison. Life is too short to cast the net wider though Don Rowland and W Loch Kidston would be obvious candidates if I did expand it further. Malcolm All makes valid sense. It's just that Peter Denny did appear on your list. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium t-b-g Posted November 25, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 25, 2019 On 23/11/2019 at 21:42, RJS1977 said: John Charman, PDH, and Peter Denny all built their layouts at a time when resources were tight (coming off the back of wartime shortages) so were inclined to reuse materials wherever possible, even when materials became more freely available again. PDH in his later years related his shock at seeing people throwing away perfectly usable pieces of timber. I've also heard one of Peter's sons saying that he and one of his brothers came home from University to find Peter had dismantled their TT layout (itself a 'classic layout' to my mind) to reuse the baseboards for Buckingham - the outlines of the track can apparently still be seen underneath parts of Buckingham. Even a brake van Peter built to the wrong scale found further use as a grounded van body on Buckingham, and Malcolm has related elsewhere how one of PDH's coaches has recently been rediscovered as a grounded body on one of the E&LMRC's layouts! These gentlemen didn't throw things away unless there was really no further use for them (although of course PDH in particular was known to give items away). You are quite right about the TT layout and here is some archaeological evidence! This is the corner board under Buckingham goods yard. The rail got used to make the overall roof at Buckingham. As you say, these people didn't waste much. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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