RMweb Gold 4630 Posted February 4, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 4, 2013 Although I'm sure this is probably just over enthusiastic reporting by the BBC, it may be worth bearing in mind for any forum readers travelling on the Swiss rail network. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21294241 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 The Swiss aren't alone in this; South-Eastern tried imposing a penalty fare on my wife when she had been unable to buy either a ticket (no booking office or machine) or Permit To Travel (machine out-of-service). The idea of the BBC correspondent being fined because the payment was made from her credit card provider minutes after she'd boarded the train is quite amazing, though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 4, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 4, 2013 But which Swiss Railway? Is it just SBB or are they all involved - far from clear (in fact totally unclear). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 I wonder if the brains behind this idea used to work for a British TOC...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWJ Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 Although I'm sure this is probably just over enthusiastic reporting by the BBC, it may be worth bearing in mind for any forum readers travelling on the Swiss rail network. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21294241 Sadly, from my own personal experience in August 2012, I can vouch that this really is the case - I bought the wrong type of ticket by mistake from the ticket machine on the platform. The guard wasn't interested at all that it was a genuine mistake and I had to pay the difference, plus a hefty fine. I will buy a railcard next time I am there! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium mezzoman253 Posted February 6, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 6, 2013 What a sad state of affairs to get into to, and public transport is being championed as the way to travel. Hopefully some of those taking their cases to court will win and the policy will be reviewed. A judge might think that as ticket machines, permits to travel and cyberspace transactions are all out of the control of the customer, and that the rail company must be absolutely sure that these are working before trying to impose a fine, he chuck them out. How are you supposed to know the credit card company took 4 mins to make the transaction? I hope the customer was refunded his/her money as the ticket wasn't valid. Bet that wasn't offered by the train company. Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
okt848 Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 I'm Swiss, living in Switzerland and using the swiss railways and I can tell you that this article is not the truth. Yes the rules have changed and the fine are now higher if you don't have a valid ticket. But the application is not so strict. Especially if you are a tourist travelling and you don't now were or how to buy your ticket, the train staff won't give you such a fine. This new rules are specially for commuter train because more and more people don't pay there tickets. For example on the commuter line from Lausanne Payerne (S21) they made statistics and about 45% of the people using this line had no valid tickets. In the same time they become to have more and more security problems. Train staff could not go anymore in the train without security agents. I've seen some tickets controls on this line where you had 1 controller assisted by 3 or 4 security agents. Last year the SBB also closed the station of Moudon on this line because they had 4 aggression in 1 year against the station staff. This new rule is more for that kind of commuter lines where the SBB have a lot of security problems and where it's not possible anymore for the train staff to sell tickets. Regarding the story of this BBC journalist, it's right that you don't have the right to buy e ticket with your smartphone once you are in the train. And for me it's absolutely logical. Knowing that you don't have a controller in each train it would be too easy to go in the train without ticket and if you see a controller coming just use your smartphone to buy a ticket. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted February 6, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 6, 2013 When BR began to reduce ticket office hours of opening, installed automatic ticket machines on platforms and insisted that you must have a ticket before boarding the train, they had to allow for the ticket machine not functioning and the ticket office not being open either. Accordingly, a Permission To Travel machine was also provided - so you could insert 50p or £1 and receive a ticket, which told the conductor you'd tried to buy a ticket, and enabled him to issue you with a ticket with no penalty, deducting the value of your PERTIS ticket from the fare paid. Fare dodging, like tax evasion, is endemic in every society. Meet it head on by all means, but ensure you only catch the cheats, not the innocents who pay the wages. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 I'm Swiss, living in Switzerland and using the swiss railways and I can tell you that this article is not the truth. .....Regarding the story of this BBC journalist, it's right that you don't have the right to buy e ticket with your smartphone once you are in the train. And for me it's absolutely logical. Yes, but you're not a BBC journalist. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwissRailPassion Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 Yes, but you're not a BBC journalist. My Swiss friends think the story is an amalgamation of various difficulties on differing lines. The harsh penalty fare on local lines (unstaffed stations) has applied for years. The fine of 90 CHF for not having a valid ticket on IC/IR routes was introduced in December 2012. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 ^ QED, methinks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Martin Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 Knowing that you don't have a controller in each train it would be too easy to go in the train without ticket and if you see a controller coming just use your smartphone to buy a ticket. This is reminiscent of my visits to Milan around 1980. The tram system used tickets that you could buy in all sorts of places, but franked for yourself using a machine on each tram. The area around the franking machine was always packed with passengers, all of whom would make a dive for the machine if a ticket inspector got on! Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
okt848 Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Another detail from this article, the journalist say: "One frosty morning I arrived at my local station to find that the ticket machine was brokem... ...by the time I got on the intercity to Geneva..." So we don't now from wich station he toke the train but it was an Intercity to Geneva. If we take a look to the SBB timetable for Geneva, the only Intercity arriving in Geneva is every hour at 11 minutes and this train is the Intercity St Gallen - Geneva. This is the timetable of this train Umgebungskarte: St. Gallen St. Gallen Je, 07.02.13 dép. 08:11 1 IC 716 1. 2. InterCity BZ RZ Umgebungskarte: Gossau SG Gossau SG dép. 08:19 1. 2. Umgebungskarte: Flawil Flawil dép. 08:24 1. 2. Umgebungskarte: Uzwil Uzwil dép. 08:30 1. 2. Umgebungskarte: Wil SG Wil SG dép. 08:39 1. 2. Umgebungskarte: Winterthur Winterthur dép. 08:58 1. 2. Umgebungskarte: Zürich Flughafen Zürich Flughafen dép. 09:13 1. 2. Umgebungskarte: Zürich HB Zürich HB dép. 09:32 1. 2. Umgebungskarte: Neubaustrecke Neubaustrecke Umgebungskarte: Bern Bern dép. 10:34 1. 2. Umgebungskarte: Fribourg Fribourg dép. 10:56 1. 2. Umgebungskarte: Lausanne Lausanne dép. 11:42 1. 2. Umgebungskarte: Genève Genève arr. 12:15 2 The first station, Gossau, Flawil, Uzwil and Wil are medium size station. All these station have a ticket office open all day long and more than one ticket automat. The rest of the stations, Zurich, Bern, Fribourg, Lausanne are the biggest station in Switzerland so you will also have a ticket office and plenty of ticket automat. So if the journalist really take an Intercity to Geneva, no matter from wich station, he had always the possibility to go to the ticket office if the ticket automat was broken! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
C&WR Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 When BR began to reduce ticket office hours of opening, installed automatic ticket machines on platforms and insisted that you must have a ticket before boarding the train, they had to allow for the ticket machine not functioning and the ticket office not being open either. Accordingly, a Permission To Travel machine was also provided - so you could insert 50p or £1 and receive a ticket, which told the conductor you'd tried to buy a ticket, and enabled him to issue you with a ticket with no penalty, deducting the value of your PERTIS ticket from the fare paid. Fare dodging, like tax evasion, is endemic in every society. Meet it head on by all means, but ensure you only catch the cheats, not the innocents who pay the wages. Not seen a permit to travel machine in operation for some time. They seemed to get broken into all the time, even in my sleepy little Home Counties village. The ticket machines are cards only now for the same reason & those are frequently out of order. Luckily most of the Revenue Protection people on the line know this & are pretty forgiving! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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