Highland Bodgery

[uax6]

It's been a funny old week, not really getting a minute to sit down to do anything much. So heres the round up of about 5 days doing odds and ends:

 

I had a slow day waiting for the bolts to turn up, so decided to attack some of the holes in the front end. I first of all looked at the smokebox door and worked out that it was too small, so it was filed off, just so you can see for yourself how small it looked:

 

Then bits of plasticard was used to fill the holes up in the smokebox saddle and the boiler, there not perfect (some aren't even as good as rough!) but most of this area will be hidden:

 

Then the bolts arrived and I soldered them into position, using a bit of paper as a spacer (which also stops the solder locking the whole lot up!):

 

and soldered up: (Sorry out of focus!)

 

So that was one side done, so I made up the other side. Firstly drilled the new hole for the shortened connecting rod:

 

And the thinned down piston rod end:

 

These were soldered up as before. Then it was time to mount the cylinders. A bit of 20thou plasticard was used to link the two cylinders, and some extra stiffeners added:

 

These were attatched using the body mounting screw, which gave this look from the front (note lack of smokebox door!):

 

And a side view of:

 

At this stage the piston rods were about 5mm too long, so they were cut down with a file:

 

Then the coupling rods needs securing with the triang crankpins. These have an unthreaded length on them, which catch on the chassis when you use them in romfords so they have been filed down to, from:

to:

 

And thats where I am at the minute. It is at least somewhere near a rolling chassis (need to get a romford axle nut driver), and begining to look the part too.

 

Andy G

 

 

[uax6]

Firstly I need to apologise for the lack of updates of late, I've had two busy sets of late turns (when I do my modelling) and some time off too. Then there are the other distractions in life (I've discovered that I need to urgently get a power-plant modified to power my Strowger exchanges) and the family too. Also I've been lacking a bit of mo-jo to as well. I need to get things moving and to this end I've spent a day or too trying to get on.

 

While wondering around 'The Range' with the family I noticed some carvable acrylic modelling paste, so decided to buy a tub to see if it would work as a good filler. To this end I've plastered it on one side of the body and on top of the boiler to see how it works. It should be hard by now (it's been days since I put it on!) so I need to try sanding it down.

 

 

 

I've been concentrating on trying to get a free rolling chassis. To that end I have made the crankpins for the centre coupled wheels. They consist of a 10BA cheese head set-screw, a 10BA washer and a bit of brass tube that just slides over the screw. This happily is the same size as the holes on the Hornby coupling rods. I'm using a Hornby spacer on the rod to keep everything apart.

 

 

 

 

I've also made myself a romford driver. An old, small, electrical terminal screwdriver has been filed down the middle to get the clearence over the end of the axle. The two prongs at the ends are a bit small, but I can always file it down again and do it all over!

 

 

I spent about 2 hours last night trying to get the chassis to roll nicely, filling the coupling rod holes to get rid of binding, and sadly I broke the end off one of them. So today I will be making a new coupling rod.... grrrr. But it's not all bad, the results of the work are a much freer chassis, hopefully today I will get it sorted.

 

Andy

[uax6]

Well, unusually for me, you are getting two updates on one day.

 

I have fixed the broken coupling rod, by splicing in another length of rod to couple up the rear axle, from an off-cut from another rod. I'll post some photos tomorrow so you can see what I did.

 

I then spent another 3 hours (!) trying to get a lovely free running chassis. The way I did it was to slowly open up the pin holes in the rods, and then put them back on to see where they stuck. Take them off again and repeat the process. While the rods were on I checked them by 'rattling' them from front to back to make sure that they were free and not binding. To say this was a slow and tedious job is an understatement. In the end I noticed that things were getting worse rather than better, so looked a bit harder at what was going on when the chassis stuck. It seemed that the issue was with the front wheelset, the one running in the new hole.

 

So off came the rods again, and then one wheel was removed which allowed me to pull the other wheel and axle out. The axle had a deposit on it from the middle towards one end, so I took a bit of 1400 grit wet and dry and polished that off. Put the axle back together and tried it with out the rods, and it was very free. Then the rods were put on and with fingers crossed I pushed it along a manky bit of track, and hay presto a wonderfully free chassis. Now all I need to do is put the piston rods on, and make sure it's still free.

 

BTW does anyone have a blackening agent for metal that they would recommend? I need to blacken up the brass of the piston guide, and paint won't work here.

 

Andy

[uax6]

As promised a picture of the new coupling rod under construction:

 

Made in the same way as earlier, make them over length and then file the overlaps half the thickness and solder together.

 

As I was making such good progress I thought I'd make up some contacts and get the chassis mobile. The contacts were made from 0.45mm handrail wire baring on the backs of the treads. These where soldered to a bit of fiberglass PCB breadboard that I had kicking about. Not perfect for the job, but works.

Showing the raw state, just to see it fits.

Showing the pick-ups ready to be soldered.

 

I forgot to take any more piccys from this point (will take some today).

 

I put the motor in and was immeadiately disapointed as when it did move it was jerky, and most of the time it just locked up. I suspect that it is a combination of a couple of factors. I think that the front axle hole that I drilled might not be quite square (I'll investigate this by removing the front axle and seeing if the motor can cope, if it does I'll have to file out the axle hole oversized, try to get the resultant hole square, and glue some barings into it.) or/and the motor isn't going to be man enough for the job. Here I have a couple of options. I could go back to an XO4 (and have the motor visable in the cab) or see if I can mod a modern Hornby can to fit. To that end I'm going to visit stores and see what I've got.

 

So yesterday was fustrating, but thats the job of this lark I suppose!

 

Andy G

[uax6]

I have investigated the binding chassis, and to that end I took the rods off and had a look at the front axle. I noticed that it could rock from side to side around the centre-line of the chassis. Now putting the rods on I could see that this motion was causing the lock-up. Now I dismantled the front axle so that I could remove it and took a gamble by trying to file the hole out so that the rock dissapeared. At worst I'd have to make the hole oversized and fit bearings, at best It might cure the problem. While filing I noticed a slight defect in the casting, which might have caused the rocking. Anyway I filed and I checked and eventually I got rid of the rock, so decided to reassemble (minus piston rods) and see what happened.

 

Eureka! It was free, the motor turned easily. So the next step was the fitting of the piston rods and try again. Brilliant! It turned in both directions without locking up. Ok, on with the pick-ups, and out with a manky bit of flexi-track, and she ran back and forth! It's not perfect as it could do with oiling up and running in, but it works!

 

That was a days work just in that (oh and the fact I just couldn't stop running it back and forth along that 24" of rough track. (And it didn't derail either!).

 

So back to the body.

 

You may remember that I mentioned I was trying a new filler, the results? Well I'm quite impressed. It drys hard, and can be filed and carved, but it does need at least 48hrs to dry. It also takes wet and dry ok.

Have a look:

And this view of the rubbed down bit on the bunker:

 

I then decided to plaster it all over to fill bits in:

it just needs to dry now.

 

At this point I thought I ought to sort out the rear of the cab, so with some plasticard I rebuilt the bunker:

 

Then I built up the back of the cab, which has a locker sat on top of the coal space (all 10thou plasticard):

The slot in the bottom clears the triang chassis (the shape of which climbs to the body mounting lugs at the rear. With crew it'll not be noticable (I hope!)):

 

The underside of the resultant coal space:

Which was crying out to be filled with sheet lead. I intend to put quite a bit of lead in the body, which hopefully will make her less likely to stall through bad pick-up:

.

 

I then started on the front frames and sand boxes. The frames are cut from 10 thou:

And some boxes made from 10 thou, you get this:

I've not fitted them yet as I need to clean up the filling around this area, so they are in store.

 

Oh and the filler is this stuff:

 

I've ordered a Caley chimney that matches from SEF today, so she'll start to look complete soon!

 

That brings us upto date.

 

Andy

 

 

Edited October 7, 2013 by uax6

[uax6]

I was invited to run a couple of locos on a friends 7mm narrow gauge layout, but this was a complete farce. The terrier refused to run, and the Scrap tankwasn't complete enough!

 

The fault with the terrier would appear to be the wheels not quartered correctly. Now this can't have been my fault as I just filled the things in! Anyway I have now got it so that it runs, so next month I might try again!

 

The Scrap tank has had it's leading wheels looked at. I gave up and drilled out the hole and superglued brass bearings in using two strips of plasticard to act as jigs:

 

 

Then I had to resolder one coupling rod to make it the correct length, this was easy, just slip a bit of paper under the rod and heat the joint with the iron and jiggle out until it was the correct length:

 

 

It runs better now, and I have let it run for about an hour in each direction so that it can bed in a bit (with some oil everywhere). It's much better than it was, but the slow speed is still not perfect. Humph.

 

Anyway needing a break from it, I made some mould boxes and attempted to cast some moulds for the chimney from the bankers for use on the Castle(s). I aslo shoved the tool box in another one as well:

 

 

Using some plastic cups (I used a waxed paper pill cup for the hardener the first time and it went through it!) and a small digital scales (ebay a fiver I think!) I measured out 33g of RTV latex and 3.2g of hardener:

 

 

Then mixed it together and poured into the mould boxes. (each one contains 32g of latex). I then banging the boxes for about half an hour (while trying to watch TV!) to get the air out. Then put aside to go off.

 

Next morning I pulled them out to find that the chimney had fallen over and was a mess. So another go, and I put some banker steps in to see if they would mould too. This time I used an Black and Decker Mouse to vibrate the air out (the only good use I've ever found for it!) and again left overnight to go off.

 

This morning I've pulled it apart and cast some resin into the moulds. Results:

 

The toolbox is a perfect copy, which is good as I'll need lots of these! The chimney is pretty good and is probably useable (I think next time I'll leave it it the mould longer to see if it comes out better) although it is slightly lopsided.

The stepas aren't very good, although again, I think I might be able to get a good set out with a bit more time in the mould.

And how much resin did all this use? Well I mixed 4cc up, and had to pour the left overs into other moulds just so I could clean the cup up for re-use! I think 2cc total would be enough for this lot.

 

The pictures of the moulds show the cutting on the chimney one so that I can get the master/cast out. This stuff is a million times better than the pourable latex!

 

Andy

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[uax6]

As I've hit a wall with the other projects I wanted something different and easier to do that will need doing anyway, so I dug out my T9 6-wheeled tenders. I had been given a top by Richard (Ben Alder) which he had cut in the wrong place, so I thought it would be a good one to try the cutting on!

 

The T9 tender as bought is 92mm long over headstocks, and occording to the drawing I have, the HR one is 85mm over headstocks. So 7mm to loose. As Richard had cut along the curve at the back of the tank, that is where the length was lost, and then the end cemented back on. Being a muppet I didn't take a picture before I stuck it together so you'll have to put up with the together photos!

 

There is a bit of filling to do, but the result isn't bad.

 

Here's a shot showing the comparison:

 

Thats the top done (ok the toolboxes and filler will need sorting out), but the chassis needs quite a bit of work. The T9 wheelbase is ok (6'6" + 6'6" just like the HR ones) but the overhang at each end is wrong. The fact that we need to shorten the chassis is a bonus, so we can sort the overhangs out at the same time.

The criticle overhang is at the front, so that the cut outs in the HR frame sit in the correct place. To that end 4mm needs cutting out infront of the wheelbase.

These show the reduction in the front end. Remove the metal coupling pin (I'm not going to use it, I'll bend up a hook and ring coupling) and then cut the bit at the front off following the rasied edge on the inside of the chassis (this is the bit with the sides that are shaped inwards). From the cut edge measure 4mm back and cut again. Glue the two bits back together. I found that you could re-attach the molex plug so that you can re-couple your locos wires.

 

The rear of the chassis also needs some work, I just cut it until it fitted, and put some cut-outs to clear the sprung buffers. Easy.

 

To fix the chassis back to the body, you just need to re-drill the two fixing screws 4mm back. Fortunatley there is enough meat to do this. I haven't countersunk them just yet.

 

As the tenders I have have got broken steps, I've found that SE Finecast King Arther steps are indenticel to HR cab steps, and so have ordered a bulk batch (I ordered 15 sets, which should keep me going for a while! (£1.50 a set):

I've also ordered an array of chimneys, and T9 front steps (the cab and tender ones are part of the kit sides), so I'll be able to fit the correct steps to most of my HR models when I get round to making them!

 

Heres a view of the conversion at the minute:

The side frames are next to be made. The big problem for the sideframes are the axleboxes. The HR ones are quite distinctive, and no-one seems to do a casting. The closest I've found so far are on my BEC 700 tender, but they have the wrong spring mounts (the HR ones don't have the drop arms):

 

The sideframes on the BEC tender are complete with the tenderside, so taking a mould will be a challenge, (I don't really wnat to carve it up!) and the Hornby T9 ones aren't any use either, although they are removable from the chassis side by forcing over until the glue breaks and then pull up. The detail around the hornguides is wrong, although I might play around and see what I can make out of them!

 

One last view of three tenders, top to bottom, unmodified T9, modified T9 (HR large tank) and Sutherland models (HR short tank). Sadly I haven't got the sideframes from the Sutherland kit (they are wondering around behind one of Richards Bens!), but looking at the pictures from the 'Bodging Ben Alder' thread, they don't look much like the real ones either!

 

Andy G

 

 

 

 

Edited October 27, 2013 by uax6

[Londontram]

Hello Andy good to see your still making progress, looking forward to the next report. Regards Steve

 

PS. just had a thought if I  was going to do the axle boxes I might be tempted to build them up for example start with a thin strip of brass the width of the base plate but the length of all 6 axle box base plates, with a punch/nail run two lines of rivets up both sides and cut into the six sections one for each base plate (I have some brass sheet thats about 3 thou and use this method to make end plates etc. on wagons and the brass cuts easily with a sharp pair of scissors). Then laminate a square rod of plasticard for the main body and again razor saw this into six sections of the correct length, and for the springs you could again laminate a square rod of plasticard to the correct width and cut into six sections and file the "steps" of the springs onto each one or if you feel really brave make up the spring leafs from strips of 5 thou plasticard and then build them up on the tender with super glue for the brass base plate onto the chassis and for the axle boxes onto the base plate and polly cement for the rest. Fiddly yes but by the time you've made the molds etc it wouldn't take no longer this way. Did that all make sense?

Edited October 27, 2013 by Londontram

[Ben Alder]

Good to see the tender getting a new lease of life- the axleboxes and side frames generally on my Bens have been a cop-out really. I just hacked away at the axleboxes and filled in the cutouts to get an approximation that would do until I tracked down some better looking axleboxes- which I haven't done yet Looks like I'm going to be shamed into doing something about it though .......

[Londontram]

Good to see the tender getting a new lease of life- the axleboxes and side frames generally on my Bens have been a cop-out really. I just hacked away at the axleboxes and filled in the cutouts to get an approximation that would do until I tracked down some better looking axleboxes- which I haven't done yet Looks like I'm going to be shamed into doing something about it though .......

You can laugh but I've just built 1 of my 6 wheel coaches I'm pottering around with one whole compartment short, i mixed up my plans for a full third and a full first - now how stupid am I   

Edited October 27, 2013 by Londontram

[Londontram]

Excuse me going off at a tangent on your thread Andy but I was just looking at the Bachmann SECR C class 0-6-0 and its got a very caley jumbo look about it both engine and tender, anyone checked the dimensions to see how close they are.

Edited October 27, 2013 by Londontram

[uax6]

I haven't got as far as handling a C class as of yet (I was looking at it to convert into a Barney) but if it is anything like the Southern 01 class (the dimensions for that being:- overall length 102mm, width across running plate 31mm, cab to smokebox front 72mm, boiler diameter 19mm, Chimney top above running plate 35mm, wheelbase 7'9" + 8'3" (31 + 33mm) in model form) then you are pretty close. I thought about using the 01 from Golden Arrow, but being a resin kit I'm not sure how much I could hack it about.

 

I have got a BEC Southern 700 class, which is more or less the same as a Barney (for the bodge I'm going to do I'm going to lower the castings 3mm and stick a Caley chimney on it, and give it a T9 tender and jobs a good un.) and probably doesn't need much work to make a Jumbo...

 

I think Adrian at ABS <might> have the moulds for this. Will someone out there call him to find out? If they do and he does, I'm sure we could find enough people to get a small run done.. The BEC kit BTW is a really nice one, the castings are pretty good, and the detail isn't bad. Ok there's no backhead (it's designed for the old triang 0-6-0 chassis) but the rest looks good. I'm sure it might be easier than to get hold of Autocomm (I'm still waiting 12months down the line!)

 

BTW I've bitten the bullet and cut the side frame from my 700 tender (I'm not going to use it for anything as I dislike heavy whitemetal tenders, they coach be two more coaches!) and have hacked the spring hangers off it. I think I might stop there and just not have the hangers on it at all. I'll take a mould tomorrow and see what turns out......

 

Off to cut sideframes now...

 

 

Andy G

[uax6]

Good to see the tender getting a new lease of life- the axleboxes and side frames generally on my Bens have been a cop-out really. I just hacked away at the axleboxes and filled in the cutouts to get an approximation that would do until I tracked down some better looking axleboxes- which I haven't done yet Looks like I'm going to be shamed into doing something about it though .......

 

It's only when you are looking to make something yourself that you notice these sort of details. I can honestly say that your axleboxes (oh-er misses!) have never stood out as being wrong. Indeed they are one of those details in your photography that are mainly in shadow so you can't see them! Until I looked at the Bodging Ben Alder thread to get ideas on how the Nu-cast sideframes fitted did I notice the widely curving springs on them.

 

These 700 ones are the opposite in the fact that they are striaght, but the axlebox is spot on, so it's a compromise I'm willing to take!

 

Andy

[ChrisN]

Andy,

Looking good again.  Just a question.  Where do you get your measurements for the prototypes from.  I mean wheel spacings and overhangs etc.  I have looked on the web but can only find them for GWR locomotives and nothing else.  Is there something I am missing or are you getting it from your achive?

Edited October 27, 2013 by ChrisN

[uax6]

The spacings for the Southern 01 came from the bloke that makes the resin castings!

 

The others come either from the HR books I have or from 'The Archive' I wish I had more stuff on the southern locos as they seem to have a very interesting selection of locos that can be butchered for other compaines...

 

Andy G

[Londontram]

My bible is "Forty years of Caledonian engines" in the back are pages and pages of lovely charts with every measurement figure you could need for every class of Caley loco from 1880 to 1920

[uax6]

We left it yesterday with me saying I'd started to take apart the BEC tender, here's some photos of the butchery. One side came off easily (it was only superglued together) and then I used a razor saw to cut the sideframe off just above the springs:

 

The next job was to remove the drop spring hangers. These were cut of with a blade and then filed smooth:

A rather blurred photo of what the springhanges originally looked like:

 

I then moved onto making the side frame. Lots of measuring and the result was this:

 

I then looked at the original Hornby sideframes (for an outside framed tender) and noticed this cut out at the rear for the buffers:

So annoying as it maybe, I've had to put something similar (although not as deep as I've filled the point down on the back of the buffers) to give this:

 

The shame is that the frame sits exactly centerline of the buffers, and I don't really want to change them to brass sprung ones, when these will do.

 

I'm a bit undecided about the look of the sideframe, I've cut the cutout's out to the scale size, but I'm not sure if I should make them a tad longer to cope with the smaller tender wheels the T9 has (They are 6" too small). Views on this will be welcome.

 

This morning I've made a mould box around the axlebox, out of platsicard and plasticine:

and then mixed up the RTV and poured it in. I then gently 'bounced' it between my fingers and the table to vibrate the air bubbles up and out of it (the Mouse is in the back of the van and it's not nice out there!). The result of the mould will be known tomorrow, but the filled mould looks like this:

 

I think this afternoon I will be shortening down three more tenders to make large tank ones, and I'll look to see how to do the short tank one. I've also got to makes a pattern for fillers (or see if they can be easily fabricated). The side frames will wait for comments....

 

Andy

 

 

 

[uax6]

Grr the weather yesterday was a pain. Not that we were effected much by it here, but the fact was by the time I'd got to work we were running an emergency service, which was timed so that I had about 15mins each hour to model. Hardly had I got sat down than I was up again....

 

Anyway I did get some things done, although sadly not the amount I wanted. In fact the only thing I managed to do was to remove the coal rails off my other four tenders......

A shot showing the difference before and after:

 

And the top of one of the tenders late in the day:

 

Oh yeah, theres now a hole in the top of the tank on this one! I've cut out the filler with an eye to using it to make a mould for casting some more. The HR tender tanks have two fillers, one on each side of the tender (something to do with the bags on the water columns?) so I'll need ten of them for this batch of tenders (with another four for the two water-carts that also need modding), so I thought casting would be the answer.

 

Talking of which this is the outcome of yesterdays mould making:

 

The detail looks to have been captured, so there is half a chance that I might get some decent looking axleboxes out of it!

 

Andy G

[uax6]

Update from this mornings casting session:

 

 

The axlebox has come out well, detail is good, although I'll have to cut a lot of flash off (which will be fun!). The toolbox has come out perfectly (again) so I'm now two out of 10 down on that front. The chimney is better although it has a air bubble cut out on the lip (grr!), and I've sorted the wonkyness out, it appears this happens on turning out, so I pressed it down on the table after getting it out, which seems to have worked. I think I'll probably have to cut the mould completely down the side to get the next ones out. Hopefully it won't leak!

 

They need to harden up now.

 

But as of this minute I'm chuffed!

 

Andy G

[uax6]

Oh, forgot to say, the amount of resin used for these castings? 2cc, and it was still too much. Looks like I'll be casting with 1cc the next time, although that will be harder to measure!

 

Andy G

[Castle]

Hi Andy,

 

Glad to see that the mould making is coming on so well - well done! Be careful about mixing very small quantities of resins and silicone though, as counter intuitive as it may seem it can be harder to get a good mix of the two parts or the rubber and catalyst. If you get a situation where you do end up with a poor mix of resin that won't go off (which leaves the mould sticky), carefully scrape out as much as you can, make up a properly mixed batch and then pour in as normal. It should set the non-mixed stuff off.

 

I hope this helps!

 

All the best,

 

Castle

[uax6]

Thanks Castle, thats a really useful tip.

 

I will say they I hate dealing in small quantities of stuff, as it seems such a poor use of time, so I did this:

 

Thats a picture of the next set of moulds I made. You will notice that there is a box around the tank filler, and another around the axlebox again. I sat down and worked out how many axleboxes I will need for the five tenders I've got (6x5 = 30) and realised that that was the best part of a month of casting one everyday. Now taking into account the fact that I need to mix a decent amount of resin each time (and I don't want to waste it!) it makes sense to have one than one mould. They have both turned out very well:

 

 

I was quite surprised about the filler as I was expecting the small overlap of the top to be difficult to get out of the mould, but it came out really easily (could this be down to the injection moulding that made it in the first place?).

 

Just after I poured these two moulds my mind wondered and thought about the original axleboxes and spring hangers on the 700 tender and I realised that I had seen them somewhere before. So out with 'The Book' to check and indeed I had seen them somewhere before, on a HR River tender. So as the plan is to make at least 1 (although I think 3 would be better!) of these beasts at somepoint before I die, I thought I should take a mould so that some can be cast up. And while I was at it I could cast yet another hangerless one and a filler!

 

This will give me three hangerless axleboxes, two fillers, a chimney, a toolbox and and river axlebox for each pouring session, so I should be able to get a decent mix of resin and achieve a decent amount of axleboxes each pour (I might even get three useable chimneys out of that lot too!)

 

Does snyone know how long you can leave the resin in the mould before it becomes impossible to get it out?

 

Andy g

[Londontram]

River class eh, do me a set of castings while your at it will you Andy one of them is on my bucket list too 

[Buhar]

Hi Andy

 

It looks like this casting lark has bitten you hard. I would suggest you have a look at Jon Halls posts on the topic and invest in some silicon rubber moulding material, you'll get better detail.

 

On the axleboxes, moulds from castings would go 2, 4, 8, 16, lots!

[uax6]

Blimey, I wasn't expecting to get orders for castings! But I'll run a few off for those who want them!

 

Alan, Since I swapped to using RTV silicon the difference in the moulds has been astounding. The latex is rubbish compared to this stuff. I've got some other ideas up my sleeve for moulding and casting, but i want to have a play first to see what happens....

 

Andy G