GWR workmen's trains?

[Richard Mawer]

I am sure I have heard/read somewhere, but now can't find any details about specific early morning workmen's trains. Were these started by legislation? What year did it start? What were the constraints regarding timing of the trains? Were they "all stations"? Were these all over the GWR? Was it the same on other companies lines?

Can you help?

Rich

[Neal Ball]

Pretty sure there would be a couple of trains during the early morning, around 6/7am classed as "workmen trains" - Mike aka Stationmaster will no doubt add a few details for you!

 

They definitely ran during 1920/30's

[br2975]

Workmen's trains ran until circa 1964 on the Western Region in South Wales - probably the last, and best known was the one starting at Cymmer Corrwg and propelled by a pannier.

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The train ran in connection with shift changes at North Rhondda Colliery (?).

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Some of the workmen's trains in South Wales were also the last preserve of ex-GWR four wheeled coaching stock, into the 1950s.

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One of the earliest editions of Modellers Backtrack featured them, with some lovely shots and remeniscences by Ian L.Wright.

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Brian R

[buffalo]

...Some of the workmen's trains in South Wales were also the last preserve of ex-GWR four wheeled coaching stock, into the 1950s...

Russell's Pictorial Record of GW Coaches, vol 1, includes photos of such trains including one at Treherbert in 1948 which he says provided the prototype for the Ratio four wheel coach kits. Another photo in Great Western Way shows part of a rake of Holden City stock in use as a workmen's train in the 1930s. In both cases, the coaches are close coupled so, presumably, semi-permanent rakes.

 

Nick

[steve fay]

Glascoed bomb factory had a work mans train up until the 60s usually hauled by two panniers.

[Kev_Lewis]

Workmens trains were pretty common around Swindon right up to the 1960's, I believe. Most likely they ran purely to bring workers from outside of Swindon to thier jobs at the works.

 

The one that ran from Highworth into Swindon continued to run even after regular passenger workings had been withdrawn. In the later days this service was hauled by a Class 03 shunter.

[The Stationmaster]

There were Workmen's trains and also Workmen's tickets.  The former I think is already reasonably covered by previous replies - basically they could be found in areas where industry required numbers of workers to be brought in and in a number of cases (particularly for miners) they used superannuated stock where it didn't matter if the interior got dirty.  However some Workmen's  trains used ordinary stock although it tended to be the older stuff unless the workers were likely to be in 'clean' occupations.  I think almost invariably they were not advertised in public timetables.  In some cases Workmen's trains operated over freight lines (some examples already given above include trains which ran over freight only lines) or over lines which had no advertised passenger train service. 

 

Workmen's tickets were cheap tickets which were restricted in the time at which the journey might be made - usually before a certain time in the morning and they were used not only for Workmen's trains but to allow cheap early morning travel on some ordinary local and stopping trains.  I think they had virtually disappeared - apart from such trains as those mentioned above - by the early-middle 1960s.

[southern42]

A Workmen's service is mentioned in The Brentford Branch by Mikkel Kjartan @ gwr.org (link below)

 

"From the 1860s until the turn of the century, the branch was serviced by a dozen passenger trains each way daily. In 1904, these were replaced by a half-hourly railmotor service, taken over by a railcar in 1920. By 1929, passenger operation had declined to just a Workmens service, lasting until WW2."

http://www.gwr.org.uk/nobrentford.html

[Ozexpatriate]

In understand there were a number of workmen's services in and around Plymouth - particularly to serve the dockyards.
 
There used to be some references here, but while the site is up, access to some of the pages I remember is broken. Railmotors were extensively used in Plymouth.
 
The page for Keyham contains this:

In the 1920s Keyham Station was the terminus of a number of workmen's motor trains. In the timetable that commenced on February 16th that year, the 5.45am from Plympton terminated here at 6.14 and the 6.23am from North Road Station did likewise at 6.39. The final one in the morning was the 6.22am from Laira Halt, which terminated at Keyham at 6.47. They returned as the 6.20am to Millbay, the 6.45 to Plympton and 7.05 empty railmotor to Plympton.

To prepare for the afternoon outmuster from the Royal Dockyard, the first empty railmotor arrived at Keyham at 3.33pm, the next at 4.20 and the third at 4.43. In addition the 5.03pm from Laira Halt terminated here at 5.21 followed by another empty railmotor at 5.35. These formed the 3.55 for Devonport and Millbay; the 4.30 all stations to Laira Halt; the 5.02 all stations to Millbay; the 5.25 all stations (except Mutley) to Plympton on Mondays to Fridays or the 5.40 to Millbay on Saturdays.

All these services were interspersed with the regular railmotors to and from Saltash or Wearde. And Keyham was served by a goods train, which left Laira Junction at 3.45am -- yes, a.m. -- and arrived at Keyham at 4.10. As it did not leave again until 5.30 there must have been some disturbance from the noise of shunting.

The illustration and photograph of motor trains (railmotor + trailer) on the Royal Albert Bridge are quite evocative.

Google found this office commuter's service (~1945) which I realize is not quite the same thing.

This working started from Newton Abbot at 7.40am, and after providing an office workers' service into Plymouth from the seven stations which then existed between Newton and Plymouth, it took a half hour breather in North Road station, before departing at 9.20am for Penzance, stopping at most Cornish main line stations on the way, to arrive into Penzance at noon.

[Ozexpatriate]

Was it the same on other companies lines?

The S&DJR had a set of three close coupled four wheelers for workman's services between their Highbridge works and Burnham-on-Sea.

 

Comments about fares being 6d a week (lads 3d) and supervisors free (in the only uphostered compartment no less) really tell a story.

[Fat Controller]

There were many 'workmen's trains' run to the various ROFs during WW2; the factory at what is now Pembrey Country Park had a multi-platformed passenger terminus on the branch from the main line to the factory, as well as a halt (Lando) on the main line itself. Similar operations were to be found all over the country; my wife's grandmother used to catch such a train from Longton to Swynnerton. Naturally, most only ran until many ROFs went on to 'care and maintenance' at the end of WW2, Glascoed being one of the exceptions.

One such service that did last, until the end of the 1970s at least, was a morning train into Crewe Works; it was an unadvertised extension of a Derby- Crewe DMU, which ran to a platform between the electric depot and the works. I only discovered it when catching the train to Crewe to work- upon arrival, many of my fellow passengers stayed on the train at the main-line station. The next day, I asked some where the train went on to, and they explained that it went on to BREL Crewe- a legacy of the closure of the former NSR works at Stoke itself post-Grouping, where the redundant workers had been taken on at Crewe.

[corneliuslundie]

There are references to an extra autocoach being added to FoD branch trains for workmen in the quartet of books about the Severn & Wye.

 

And there were a lot of workmen's services in South Wales. Some seem to have been run using railway company stock but hauled by industrial locos, especially on Sundays when there were no other scheduled services. And it happened the other way round, with railway company locos hauling colliery stock. Later on, and ceertainly after Nationalisation, they were run by the railway company..

 

There were also examples of workmen's trains run on colliery lines. Sometimes they use goods vans instead of coaches. Other examples using second hand stock bought from railway companies.

 

If you want some details get hold of working timetables - there are some available for download on the web, as I discovered recently by searching using Google.

 

The North Rhondda service has been illustated in several places with two different generations of stock. There is a nice, well know photo of the Pochin workmen's service in Monmouthshire.

 

There has been some recent correspondence on this in Welsh Railways Archive.

 

They certainly started in the 19th century, and, yes, other companies had them, for example the GER into Liverpool Street. Sometimes it was a condition of the Act of Parliament that such services were provided to allow people displaced by the railway to get to their work.

 

Jonathan David

HMRS Rhymney Railway Steward

[The Stationmaster]

The service to the Slough (Industrial) Estate station was unusual in that there were never any 'ordinary' Workmen's tickets issued for it but all the tickets were preprinted Excess Fare Tickets.  Quite why this was nobody around Slough seemed to know but the tickets had been an Edmundson card booking office stock issue.  The remains of teh Slough Estates platform was still visible well into the 1960s although services had long ceased.

[Bernard Lamb]

 Was it the same on other companies lines?

 

The ex GER lines into Liverpool Street certainly had them.

Not sure when they were discontinued.

Quite ironical that now you pay top wack to travel before a certain time in the morning, when in former times it was the cheapest time.

Bernard

[DavidR]

In the West Midlands, the GWR/MR branch from Old Hill - Longbridge(Austin works) carried unadvertised workmans services into the early 60's with some ancient rolling stock, regular services having finished in 1929. Early on stock was gas lit and was taken back to Tyseley, via Old Hill and Snow Hill, after the morning and evening services to be recharged (or re filled with gas).

The trains were powered by Tyseley pannier tanks.

[Rivercider]

I can remember a Monday - Friday service, one train each way I think, serving North Filton Platform which ran until 1986,

the morning service was, at times, an extension of a Weston - Bristol service, and the return afternoon working formed a Weston service from Bristol

 

cheers

[Richard Mawer]

Thanks for all the info. 

 

Its seems then that each service was individually tailored to the locality/situation and that there weren't the same rules on timings across the system. Correct?

 

Rich

[The Stationmaster]

Thanks for all the info. 

 

Its seems then that each service was individually tailored to the locality/situation and that there weren't the same rules on timings across the system. Correct?

 

Rich

Basically yes, and they have always fallen into several categories.  

1. In some cases - as instanced above - trains were provided specially for particular workers to a certain site and,

1a. in some cases (especially for miners of out of the way lines) they used ancient rolling stock that was left to get even grubbier, while in others they were

1b. Ordinary stock running to specific sites

and most trains in these categories were unadvertised and in later years (post early 1960s I think, possibly late 1950s) ordinary fares were charged on them - I expect some had in any case always been ticketed at ordinary fares although I have no firm information on this.

 

The second category was effectively trains which were part of the ordinary train service over a route but were those for which Workmen's Tickets (at a reduced fare) were available and which basically ran in the early part of the day (with the cut-off time varying around the country).

[br2975]

The GWR 1947 timetable shows several 'Workmen's Trains' operating in South Wales- some examples of routes served include:-

Machen - New Tredegar

Bargoed - Fochriw

Cardiff Queen St. - Nelson & Llancaich - Dowlais Central

Pengam (Mon) - New Tredegar

Bargoed - Dowlais Top

Merthyr - Pontypridd

Porth - Maerdy

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Brian R

[Kris]

In understand there were a number of workmen's services in and around Plymouth - particularly to serve the dockyards.

In later years I believe that the ones coming up from Cornwall were a mix of non corridor and corridor bogie stock (Mixed in the same trains). These appear to have been the last trains to have utilised non corridor stock for relatively lengthy non branch line and non suburban services.

[corneliuslundie]

I am intrigued by Brian R's mestion of a Cardiff - Nelson & Llancaiach - Dowlais Central service. Dowlais Central was the ex B&M station (otherise locally known as Dowlais Tip, I believe). Can you explain the route? I can't work it out.