Tracks at Salford Crescent station

[Jim Martin]

According to the Quail maps book (and Google Maps appears to bear this out), there are three tracks passing through Salford Crescent. The easternmost track passes through platform 2 and is called the Down Bolton (all these names are as shown in Quail; up is towards Manchester Victoria; down is towards Bolton or Atherton, depending on which route is taken at the junction immediately north of the station). The centre track passes through platform 1 and is called the Up and Down Bolton. The westernmost track is called the Up Bolton and doesn't face onto a platform. All three tracks are shown as bi-directional. 

 

Please could someone tell me:

• Is the Up Bolton line in regular use and, if so, by what? Notwithstanding that it's shown as bi-directional, the only place that a train in the down direction could go from it would be on to the up line at Windsor Bridge North Junction, and that isn't bi-directional. Is its use in that direction just as a run-round or something? Do through trains in the up direction use it to avoid the station?
• Are the platforms regularly used as bidirectional tracks outside of rush hours? I can see that the arrangement shown would allow two down trains to be in the station simultaneously, with one departing towards Bolton and one towards Atherton without any conflict. The same thing doesn't seem to be true in the up direction, because as far as I can see, an up train could only leave platform 2 by crossing the up exit from platform 1.

Thanks

 

Jim

 

[Edwin_m]

The working timetable shows platform numbers or line code for passenger trains at Salford Crescent. 

[Jim Martin]

Wow! That is absolutely brilliant. I had no idea that this was on the web, or at least that it was available without paying a whacking great subscription fee to NR. Thanks very much indeed!

 

Jim

[Bomag]

I have used the up Bolton when TPN Liverpool services have not been able to travel via Man Pic and go via Man Vic, reversing at Salford Crescent and Oxford Road.

[Jim Martin]

I have used the up Bolton when TPN Liverpool services have not been able to travel via Man Pic and go via Man Vic, reversing at Salford Crescent and Oxford Road.

That sounds quite interesting. Probably not much good if you're actually trying to get somewhere, mind.

 

Jim

[Jim Martin]

Having had a look at the WTT, it appears that the Up Bolton is regularly used as a run-round by TransPennine services between the North-East and Manchester Airport. This is limited to the wee small hours, when trains like the 02:52 ex-York run through Manchester Victoria (it stops at Huddersfield, so I guess it passes Stalybridge and takes the Ashton line) and reverse at Salford before calling at Piccadilly en route to the airport.

 

Three or four trains do this each night. Possibly to avoid the infrastructure sidings at Guide Bridge?

 

Jim

[Edwin_m]

May be due to engineering access (the timetable rules are also on the NR website) or simply to retain crew route knowledge? 

[newbryford]

I've seen the

 

 

. The westernmost track is called the Up Bolton and doesn't face onto a platform.

<snip>

 

Please could someone tell me:

• Is the Up Bolton line in regular use and, if so, by what?

 

Hi Jim.

The only track not with a platform (Up Bolton) is on the eastern side.

 

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=salford&hl=en&ll=53.486303,-2.275844&spn=0.002729,0.006968&sll=52.8382,-2.327815&sspn=11.359053,28.54248&hnear=Salford,+United+Kingdom&t=h&z=18

 

I've seen it used by a freight looping round a stopped passenger service. (CWR to Castleton IIRC, so quite a while ago)

 

Cheers,

Mick

[Jim Martin]

 

The only track not with a platform (Up Bolton) is on the eastern side.

 

Hmmm. Good spot. East / west brain freeze.

 

Jim

[pharrc20]

As a daily commuter from Bolton to Stockport I can provide a little local info.

 

The Up Bolton is used by non-stop TransPennine Express services towards Manchester Airport, which would have called at Bolton and then next stop would be Manchester Oxford Road. There are several services per day that bypass Salford Crescent in this manner. It is also used by the empty Pendleton to Great Rocks aggregates train that passes through shortly after leaving the siding at Pendleton a little further up the Bolton line. I have seen this a few times deliberately when something juicy like a shiny red DBS 60 has been on the stone instead of the boring EWS 66s having got off one train and waited for the stone train to follow down. It has also been used up until recently by the GMWA Waste trains that ran to their Pendleton refuse terminal but these services are suspended at present I believe. Trains from Pendleton would use the loop to head towards Guide Bridge and/or the Dean Lane waste terminal. Occasionally empty stock and charter trains use the loop as well heading towards Vic or Picc.

 

Incidently, there are occasional northbound trains that are routed into platform 1 on the Up & Down Bolton either coming from Manchester Victoria via Salford Central and the facing crossover or from Manchester Piccadilly via Ordsall Lane Jnc and the facing crossover. My 17.12 train home from Stockport to Blackpool is sometimes routed into Plat 1 rather than Plat 2 even though there are no trains in Plat 2 at the time so I guess this is a driver route knowledge thing rather than and operational change.

 

The engineering work that took place over Christmas and New Year also allowed you to travel wrong line between Windsor Bridge South Jnc, over the Up Bolton loop then the Up Bolton as far as Agecroft/Pendleton trailing crossover where we regained the correct Down Bolton line. A system of single line tokens was in use during this period.

 

From Atherton you can be routed into either platform, from Bolton you can only be routed into platform 1 as there is no facing crossover coming from Bolton to permit this move. It would give more flexibility if a facing crossover was installed I think.

 

There are future plans I believe to add an extra platform on the Up Bolton loop line and the loop has recently been relaid and reballasted between the two sets of points at the north and south ends. There is just about room to squeeze in a platform but it will be tight behind the Manchester North signalling centre retaining wall.

 

Cheers Paul

[Jim Martin]

Paul

Thanks. I had noticed the Pendleton sidings in the Quail book (not easy to miss, really), but I need to check out the freight WTT from the NR website to see what it has to say.

 

I think the Wikipedia article on the station says that it's too small for the number of passengers using it; and mentions the possibility of a third platform.

 

Jim

[Edwin_m]

This is what is planned at Salford Crescent. 

 

There was talk a few years ago of replacing it with a larger station north of the junction so it could have separate platforms on the two diverging routes and potentially also some bay platforms so that Calder Valley and other services could be extended there to connect with the Airport and other places with only one change of train.  However this would have been a less convenient site for the University and the approval of Manchester Hub means that trains will now run direct from Victoria to the Airport instead, hopefully also reducing the number of people needing to change trains at Crescent.  Hence the more limited development now happening. 

[newbryford]

The relatively short (6car?) island platform is exceedingly narrow and at busy times isn't a pleasant place to be. I would hazard a guess that it's fairly close to the minimum width requirements. As Edwin's link states, there is a pinch point at the bottom of the ramp.

 

On the odd occasions I've had to change trains going say from Blackburn to the south side of Manchester, Bolton is a better option. Even when going homeward, it's worth the climb over the bridge at Bolton to avoid the crush at Salford Crescent.

 

However, the current trackplan lends itself to a model - I have a few photos and sketched layout ideas in my files!

 

Cheers,

Mick

[Jim Martin]

 

However, the current trackplan lends itself to a model - I have a few photos and sketched layout ideas in my files!

 

Quite. I was planning something with an ordinary double track junction in an urban setting (the setting itself probably inspired by the southern end of Wigan Wallgate). Then I decided that a junction similar to the one at Water Orton, among other places (and modelled on Waton) would be more interesting. Then I happened on Salford Crescent and thought it would be a bit different. Still very much at the "thinking", rather than the "doing" stage at the moment though.

 

Jim

[pharrc20]

I have thought exactly the same and the modelling potential of Salford Crescent. I have been on the look out for 1:2500 plans but as these are usually less than 50 years old then you are limited to just an A4 extract if you wanted a copy of the layout. However, I did make a photo montage of aerial image the other month just to see how it could be done.

 

The Pendleton stone usually runs three to four times per week depending on requirements usually between Monday and Thurdays, sometimes rarely on a Friday. This train uses a rake of the former BLI blue and white JGA bogie hopper wagons as modelled by Bachmann and Farish. They are now in a plain VTG white livery and operate with a few of the former RMC orange and white JGAs, which are now owned by DBS. These JGAs are to the same design as the VTG wagons and this morning for example I counted three orange hoppers and seventeen white hoppers when I passed Pendleton with 66104 in charge.

 

There have also been short term flows to Pendleton from Scunthorpe and Bardon Hill and these used a variety of hoppers including ex Cemex HOA/IIA hoppers and ex National Power JHAs now DBS owned HKAs.

 

Work on the new station raft that will span the Up Bolton and Up & Down Bolton platform one lines is well underway. The new lift shaft, deck and footbridge stairs have been in position now for a few weeks and the new station entrance raft across the nearby roadway to the east behind the wall has also been in for a couple of weeks. I would imagine a long weekend possession maybe Easter might see the raft across the tracks lifted into place. Once the new station entrance and building is completed and ready I guess the current footbridge ramp will be closed off and dismantled to provide extra room before the ticket office and the waiting room are demolished. The platform extension foundations are also underway so lots going on.

 

Cheers Paul

[DavidLong]

Not sure about describing the removal of the enclosed waiting room and replacing it with open seating as an improvement although at least it sounds like we will still have a canopy. It does rain sometimes in Salford

The biggest improvement for us lot travelling to Atherton would be not to have to use a Pacer. The most depressing news recently was that it may be possible to make them disability compliant which means that they have a possibility to live on after 2020.

 

David

[pharrc20]

A quick update, work over the past week or so has seen the new bridge deck lifted into position over the two running lines to link the new station area located on the east side to the previously installed lift shaft and new stairs. Passing on my way to and from Piccadilly today whilst travelling to York show has seen the single line working timetable in use whilst the builders take over the station. And indeed the old concrete ramp down from the concrete footbridge has been removed using a rather large crane positioned on the west side of the station. On my return home the diggers and breakers were working on breaking up the concrete foundations around what used to be the end of the ramp just outside the ticket office. Work was also taking place to finish off the new platform extensions and fit the safety railings. So I guess it will all be ready for Monday morning then all being well.

 

Cheers Paul

[newbryford]

Pic taken a couple of weeks ago. Showing the extension of the platform at the south-east north-west end of Salford Crescent.

 

 

Cheers,

Mick

 

EDIT - I managed to turn it through 180 degerees........ (Ta Em)

[Edwin_m]

North west end surely? 

[newbryford]

North west end surely? 

 

 OOPS!

 

Cheers,

Mick