Freelance Layouts

[Clive Mortimore]

 

Freelance concoctions. What is possible when you recombine parts from various sources.

 

First is made from, a Bachmann Junior chassis, Ertle body, plastic pen body for a boiler, a plasticard footplate and a white metal chimney and dome. The second one, in darker green has an old Mainline J72 chassis, Hornby E2 tanks and footplate reduced in length, Ratio Midland 2-4-0 boiler and chimney, plasticard cab.

 

Freelance design But I hope they are realistic.

 

p1010192small.jpg

 

Hi Relaxinghobby

 

They are wonderful.

 

The thought of freelance models is great. I like Relaxinghobby's small tank engines as they give the impression of a small railway who through necessity have brought locos from outside builders as and when they needed them.

 

Anyone can do variations on propsed locomotives http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/6154-cuts-and-shuts/?p=894006

[Guest]

 

Anyone can do variations on propsed locomotives http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/6154-cuts-and-shuts/?p=894006

 

Interesting thread, another of those that had escaped my notice, so thanks for the link. I feel a bit dubious about that 4-8-2 Duchess, though. Nice looking but as one of the posters points out, the tube length would have been a bit on the excessive side. L/D ratio and all that.

[TerryD1471]

They work for me! Nice to see some imagination being so effectively used.

 

Here's a thought. In his excellent book Living with London Midland Locomotives, A.J. Powell suggested a loco changeover point at Preston and the use of passenger Garratts north onwards. How about instead a 2-8-2 variation on the Stanier Duchess? 6' drivers could be got in at 6'3" spacings, with possible use of the Alco lateral motion device on the rear axle to help it round curves. Starting tractive effort at 85% b.p. would work out at 44,996lbs. Assume 20 ton axle loading giving a total adhesive weight of 80 tons (possibly more) and an adhesion factor of 3.98 - actually better than a Duchess's 3.78. Such a beast could well have made mincemeat of Shap.

Glad to know that your mind works along similar lines to mine (no pun intended!). The WCML was always short of class 8 power and such a machine would have found regular work not only on the WCML northern slopes but also on the S & C. A Zara truck at the front would obviate any riding or trackholding problems and the whole machine would have been a superb answer to Gresley's P2. (I still think it was a damned shame to have rebuilt them!).

 

I'm not even sure that with a good front end you would have needed 6' drivers. The Norfolk & Western J 4-8-4s were good for 110 mph with 5'9" wheels, so why not here?

 

My mind also still wanders to the putative LMS 4-6-4 and 4-8-4 stoker fired proposals, the latter with 5'6" drivers. What crackers they would have been!

 

By the way, aren't we getting a bit far off the topic of "freelance layouts"? Not that I mind!

 

And to digress further into my own fevered imagination,  a Crewe 2A boiler atop a 4-8-0 with 5'6" drivers would have made a brilliant mixed traffic/fast freight loco to rival the GW 47xx. But that would have impinged on the 2-8-2s territory!!!! Perchance to dream!

Edited September 30, 2013 by TerryD1471

[Iain Popplewell]

As the writer of the opening post let me say that your "fevered speculations" are exactly what this thread should be about,especially if someone goes of and actually models one of these locomotives.

 

It's quite nice to see the thread still bumping along and generating some enthusiasm for free-lance modelling.I must apologise for not posting much lately, but I've a NER class P under construction at the moment and once it's painted in it's freelance South Farne livery I'll post some pics.I'm putting a tender cab on it in a Worsdell style and only lately  realised this was not as freelance as I thought, having come across a picture of a real one as used on The Rosedale Branch !

 

In the pipeline I have a class w and class t to build and I'll put a tender cab on the class t.

 

One wonders whether a class t would really be necessary on a small island railway system  but Lord Ravenbeck liked the look of one, and once he'd tried it out he would almost certainly have pondered whether a heavy hauling tank loco might prove even more useful.So in the longer term I'm toying with a more freelance 0-8-2T based on a class t but with a cab and tanks similar to the later class Y tank.

[Graham Boak]

Aircraft modellers have a useful category "What If" which would seem to cover most of the ideas above.  For NER enthusiasts, how about an electrified main-line providing a useful home for re-liveried HO Swiss Crocodiles?  Is South Farne reached by bridge or ferry?

[Guest]

Glad to know that your mind works along similar lines to mine (no pun intended!). The WCML was always short of class 8 power and such a machine would have found regular work not only on the WCML northern slopes but also on the S & C. A Zara truck at the front would obviate any riding or trackholding problems and the whole machine would have been a superb answer to Gresley's P2. (I still think it was a damned shame to have rebuilt them!).

 

I'm not even sure that with a good front end you would have needed 6' drivers. The Norfolk & Western J 4-8-4s were good for 110 mph with 5'9" wheels, so why not here?

 

My mind also still wanders to the putative LMS 4-6-4 and 4-8-4 stoker fired proposals, the latter with 5'6" drivers. What crackers they would have been!

 

By the way, aren't we getting a bit far off the topic of "freelance layouts"? Not that I mind!

 

And to digress further into my own fevered imagination,  a Crewe 2A boiler atop a 4-8-0 with 5'6" drivers would have made a brilliant mixed traffic/fast freight loco to rival the GW 47xx. But that would have impinged on the 2-8-2s territory!!!! Perchance to dream!

 

I'm familiar with the N&W machines and you're absolutely right: modern front end design would have meant the smaller drivers would have been no impediment to speed. It's a pity the Zara truck was never tried in the UK. Something to do with loading gauge restrictions, maybe? Chapelon applied them to his superb 141Ps, arguably the finest mixed traffic engines ever built for any line anywhere, and they were rock steady at the SNCF universal line maximum of 75mph. Indeed, for a mixed traffic design, they spent an uncommonly large amount of their time on expresses.

 

You strike a chord with the 4-6-4/4-8-4 designs put forward by the LMS. I remember seeing Duchess of Sutherland at Didcot a few years ago and thinking what a brute of an engine she was, but she would have been comprehensively overshadowed by either of these two.

 

4-8-0s. Yes, another beef of mine. I always felt the GWR King would have been a better machine as a 4-8-0, even with 6'0" drivers. Think of all that extra adhesion on Dainton, Rattery - you name it. As for a mixed traffic version, I don't know if you have a copy of Britain's Railways Under Steam by J.B. Snell but it contains a 4-8-0 MT proposal by a chap called Sterndale (I forget his first name and don't have the book to hand). It may differ in detail but the overall concept is totally in line with your thinking. Great minds and all that.

 

Aircraft modellers have a useful category "What If" which would seem to cover most of the ideas above.  

 

Also in warship design. I also belong to this forum -

 

http://www.phpbbplanet.com/forum/index.php?mforum=warshipprojects

 

- and they have a whole section devoted to members' own thoughts and fantasies. For some reason or other, it seems to be frowned upon by some in railway modelling circles.

[Iain Popplewell]

Aircraft modellers have a useful category "What If" which would seem to cover most of the ideas above.  For NER enthusiasts, how about an electrified main-line providing a useful home for re-liveried HO Swiss Crocodiles?  Is South Farne reached by bridge or ferry?

 

I,m afraid that South Farne in the Edwardian period was dependant on seagoing transport and indeed the South Farne Railways original purpose was to transport iron ore from Scartop pit in the hilly hinterland of the island to the coast for transshipment to the furnaces of North Eastern England.It was only with the discovery of substantial deposits of coking coal at the northern tip of the island that the railway system grew and a substantial iron making industry was established.

 

However Graham should you wish to model a later period when a bridge might be postulated please feel free to do so.However if you hanker after re-liveried crocodiles a more likely scenario might be to imagine that the NER did proceed with an east coast electrification what might have happened then.In 1922 the North Eastern did produce one of the greatest "freelance designs" of all time the magnificent No.13 electrical express loco sadly never to be used.

 

I,m lucky enough to own a copy of Ken Hoole's history of NER locomotives and it's quite striking how much "freelancing" the actual railway companies did.It  can be quite frustrating to a freelancer  when gazing at a picture of say a Stockton and Darlington class 1001 and wondering how one might look if fitted with a Worsdell boiler and turning the page to find that the NER actually rebuilt a few and in quite a few variations.In fact by building "free-lance" loco's etc we are really only following prototype practise!

[TerryD1471]

I'm familiar with the N&W machines and you're absolutely right: modern front end design would have meant the smaller drivers would have been no impediment to speed. It's a pity the Zara truck was never tried in the UK. Something to do with loading gauge restrictions, maybe? Chapelon applied them to his superb 141Ps, arguably the finest mixed traffic engines ever built for any line anywhere, and they were rock steady at the SNCF universal line maximum of 75mph. Indeed, for a mixed traffic design, they spent an uncommonly large amount of their time on expresses.

 

You strike a chord with the 4-6-4/4-8-4 designs put forward by the LMS. I remember seeing Duchess of Sutherland at Didcot a few years ago and thinking what a brute of an engine she was, but she would have been comprehensively overshadowed by either of these two.

 

4-8-0s. Yes, another beef of mine. I always felt the GWR King would have been a better machine as a 4-8-0, even with 6'0" drivers. Think of all that extra adhesion on Dainton, Rattery - you name it. As for a mixed traffic version, I don't know if you have a copy of Britain's Railways Under Steam by J.B. Snell but it contains a 4-8-0 MT proposal by a chap called Sterndale (I forget his first name and don't have the book to hand). It may differ in detail but the overall concept is totally in line with your thinking. Great minds and all that.

 

 

Also in warship design. I also belong to this forum -

 

http://www.phpbbplanet.com/forum/index.php?mforum=warshipprojects

 

- and they have a whole section devoted to members' own thoughts and fantasies. For some reason or other, it seems to be frowned upon by some in railway modelling circles.

Glad to read your comments. Always felt that the 4-8-0 configuration was a good one, ever since I read of the work of Chapelon in converting a middling Pacific into a world class 4-8-0. I don't think the power to weight ratio of the 240Ps has ever been beaten. And that was achieved burning rubbish fuel (briquettes) in a narrow firebox!

 

That brings me on to another area where I think there is a little misunderstanding. I've read posts which suggest that grate area is crucial to ability to burn fuel and create horse power. I don't believe it is. I believe it's combustion chamber volume that is the operative factor which is why the 240P with a 38 sq ft grate under a narrow firebox could produce 25% more power than a similarly sized Duchess with a 50 sq ft grate. I always understood that the wide grate was needed only to deal with the larger amounts of ash produced by inferior quality coal, a pressing requirement post-war.

 

So yes, I agree that a King sized boiler on a 4-8-0 chassis would have made a tremendous machine, perfect for the South Devon banks.

 

Perhaps you have also seen Tuplin's book "North Western Steam" on the cover of which (I think) is a theoretical extended Claughton into a large boiler 4-8-0. Fantasy indeed! And that brings me onto yet another topic. Would that the Claughton have been sorted out properly. It was a very near miss, as I understand it, in design terms, capable of some excellent work and perfectly balanced with zero hammer blow, but hampered by a few very minor design problems. But it never was sorted. Ah well! It won't stop me from having a couple of Claughtons (large and small) running on Hest Bank in fantasy mode.

 

Glad to see that you are into warships, too. A wonderful area of interest. My own interest was, I think, primarily fuelled by the fact that my grandfather, whom I never knew, had been a Naval electrician during the 1st world war and had been aboard HMS Monarch at the Battle of Jutland. I have his hand written account of it.

Edited October 6, 2013 by TerryD1471

[TerryD1471]

Having posted at some length on this topic, I came across another topic elsewhere, entitled "imaginary locomotives" and realised that everything I'd written here would have been better said on that topic instead. So anything I have to say on this subject from hereon out can now be found under the heading "Imaginary locomotives".

 

As a postscript, I was pleased to be able to acquire a copy of Snell's book in which could be found a description and diagram of A. C. Sterndale's proposal for a large mixed traffic 4-8-0; very interesting and thoroughly believable.

[Guest]

Having posted at some length on this topic, I came across another topic elsewhere, entitled "imaginary locomotives" and realised that everything I'd written here would have been better said on that topic instead. So anything I have to say on this subject from hereon out can now be found under the heading "Imaginary locomotives".

 

 

Agreed. Having just worked my way through the thread, I can see it's right up my street. Terry, I owe you a pint for pointing out a thread I never knew existed.

[TerryD1471]

Agreed. Having just worked my way through the thread, I can see it's right up my street. Terry, I owe you a pint for pointing out a thread I never knew existed.

My pleasure!

 

Would that be Carlsberg?

 

Mind you a meeting would be tricky, since you're in Denmark and I'm in west Wales; never mind, the thought was there!

[Guest]

My pleasure!

 

Would that be Carlsberg?

 

Mind you a meeting would be tricky, since you're in Denmark and I'm in west Wales; never mind, the thought was there!

 

Carlsberg? 'Fraid not. We have an excellent local brewery here in Haderslev under the name of Fuglesang. Their Blackbird range is worth a try, trust me. The offer remains, though. If ever you find yourself in Denmark, the beer is on me. Failing that, if I'm in Blighty, I'll smuggle a few bottles across the border.

 

Will respond to your earlier post on the other thread. See you there!

[Guest]

I got back yesterday from a flying visit to England to see my mum, who is in a care home following a major stroke. (Sorry, Terry, the beer will have to wait for another time!) I'm not one for flying so we went by ferry from Esjerg to Harwich then by train to Liverpool Street, across London to St. Pancras and down to Hastings via Ashford Int'l. The journey was a bit of a nightmare, standing room only most of the way. The journey back on Sunday was better. Turbostar from Hastings to Ashford, then Javelin to London, then Class 360 to Manningtree for Harwich. We got seats all the way. A very pleasant journey made sweeter by meeting up with two of my three children (plus girlfriend appendage) in London for lunch. Just round the corner from the British Museum is the Bloomsbury cafe run by a gentleman of Italian extract who is, shall we say, something of a character. We spent three uproarious hours there that ended all too soon. If you go there, ask him if he remembers the guy with his family, his second family and a plastic aeroplane kit. He'll understand.

 

On the journey, I got to wondering what the railway would look like if it hadn't been privatised, and then if anyone has ever considered a layout with all this rather nice modern rolling stock but in BR colours. I'm thinking Javelins (which I found hugely impressive trains) in blue/grey or a more modern derivative. Class 66s in overall blue with FYE? Pendolinos - but hopefully without the pong problem? I'm sure someone has thought of this but has anyone done it?

[steves17]

 

Freelance concoctions. What is possible when you recombine parts from various sources.

 

First is made from, a Bachmann Junior chassis, Ertle body, plastic pen body for a boiler, a plasticard footplate and a white metal chimney and dome. The second one, in darker green has an old Mainline J72 chassis, Hornby E2 tanks and footplate reduced in length, Ratio Midland 2-4-0 boiler and chimney, plasticard cab.

 

Freelance design But I hope they are realistic.

 

p1010192small.jpg

 

The LB&SCR E2/ Sodor E2X tank locomotive is of some interest to me

[/url]">http://

 

- as i'm at the start of modelling The Railway Series. Dalby gave Awdry a fair bit of grief with his drawings in his books. One problem was Thomas's running plate. It gnawed at him so much that he released a revamped book called 'Thomas comes to breakfast' drawn by Clive Spong. After he smashes his front buffer beam up against the station master's house he is sent to the works. In the rewrite, this job is more extensive.

  There has been talk on http://sodor.proboards.com about the ins ands outs about how realistic is would be to alter his running plate- with all of the mechanics involved etc. However I very recently found out about this curiosity.

[/url]">http://

. It was fitted with an E4 boiler- so a swap job basically in December 1953. It also has Clack valves on the boiler sides and a different dome. As Daisy arrived under BR rule, I'm guessing with a fair bit of certainty that this Southern engine had its rebuild some years before Thomas's rebuild. The Fat Controller may even of got the idea from reading about it. After he comes out the work shop he would look like is iconic self, as opposed to a standard E2.

 

 

The running plate being lowered 

[/url]">http://

 

gives the need for his splashers and he can have larger side tanks- giving a slightly longer running distance between refills and better adhesion to the track as well as giving Thomas his fat an dumpy look over a standard E2. I'm no rail expert, but I think this stacks up.

 

Anyway this is actually what I wanted to talk about. 

I've chosen to do 'The three Railway Engines' as a basis for my first layout. More accurately the Ballahoo tunnels, from 'The Sad story of Henry' and 'Edward, Gordon and Henry'. I choose this one first, as i'm green to modelling and its the most simplest of all my plans. I've dove strait into the deep end with P4. This has been problematic, but I want my layout to look as close to the real thing as possible. I'm trying to be faithful to the images, but I want what would be prototypical on a railway as a first. 'The Sad story of Henry' is a very far fetched one in reality, but with a lot of pondering, I've got a semi believable basis to make the story work- in a reality where trains are sentient at least.

Anyway the line at the tunnel is a single, but is double beyond the mouth on both sides

[/url]">http://

 ( Ignore the left bore on the template).

- this was done for cheapness and speed at the time when the NWR was formed in 1915. Henry blocks the tunnel- effectively cutting off the flow of traffic. This is the unbelievable bit. He stays there, and they build another cutting next to him using the south line instead.

[/url]">http://

I'm basically happy with this, but i've found i'm having trouble with the bend in the track on the other side of my layout ( the tunnels have been inverted to make the best use of space ), where it goes from the standard distance away from the second line

[/url]">http://

to the new bore cutting.

[/url]">http://

The problem up to a point is the flexie P4 track I have. Annoyingly its a shade tight on the roller gauge. Its ok for strait track- though I will be building my own for beyond the tunnels, where it curves and on my next layout project. I was was thinking that I need to uplift that S curve area and replace it with an even more gentle curve. At the time I thought it ample, but with the some derailments and looking at it more from a prototype point of view i'm not so sure its right. ( I know about the importance of weighting and gauge widening etc, but I don't want to focus on that here). 

 

I want to faithful to the drawings.

[/url]">http://

( ignore the top row, as they were incorrectly drawn at the time of the first story and received a revamp imagery later on ). With the middle support support wall, but i'm thinking, if I got rid of it and just had two supports on the outside edges of the bores, then I could shave down the gap between them a bit more- up to a cm or so.

What I really want to know is there a minimum distance to be had between two single tunnel bores? The ones i've found tend to be bigger. I suppose tunnelling too close to one another might be unsafe.

In a normal soil type hill, would the the tunnel have to be brick lined to pass for public use in 1923, even at reduced speed? One theory I had to make the story some what believable to that two crews started a relief cutting. One at the entrée bore, laying the double track up to it, and the other crew starting behind the track of Henry's tender. This would quicky re-open the line. Crews would be working in shifts, to complete this as quickly as possible. After that, tunnelling could progress at a more reasonable pace. On a quiet day, they relay the temporary cross-over to the new tunnel. ( I've seen an old documentary of the relaying of one of London's terminus stations entree track work. This is one busy complicated track work area, but they do the work for a set amount of hours every sunday, until it is finished ).

Could this temporary in tunnel cross-over be supported by wooden supports like a mine, or would it have to be brick lined? Is it practical to do tho piece meal or would they have to wait until the digging was completed, then start?

 

[/url]">http://

">[/url]

 

I could stretch out the S bend regardless, but it will also make things easier on the left end of my layout where the express cross over exists when I come to build it, as I only have X amount of space between the board edge and where the tunnel mouths need to start.

 

As much as i've learned since joining the scale-four society, I don't know that much about tunnels. Can anyone help please.

 

Not not sure if this is the right thread to ask, but i'm new to this forum and it is a freelance project.

 

Thanks.

Morgan.

Edited May 16, 2014 by steves17

[Talltim]

But equally satisfying, I'm sure. Wasn't there a Class 38 proposed at one time? One scenario I've pondered is the UK adopting the US style of freight operation and the "building block" principle of power - add more diesels until you get enough power to haul the train. I've often wondered how a string of three or four Class 20s at the head of a long air-braked fast freight would look.

Its something I've wondered to, but I came to the conclusion that loops lengths here restrict train lengths (and so weight) so you don't actually need more locos, plus more locos = more train length too.

 

One idea I'd considered was a modern day mixed freight and passenger inner city tramway. A historic city has banned all lorries from the centre, so all deliveries of stock for larger shops is by ISO containers on flatcars that transfer from the mainline rail network to the tram network via a connection. Passenger trams would be pretty standard, but the freight would need little electric tractors, similar to some of the Swiss shunting tractors. I think the container flats would have to be short, but with bogies to cope with the sharp curves, There would be loads of little private sidings to the loading bays for the shops.

Edited May 14, 2014 by Talltim

[Guest]

Its something I've wondered to, but I came to the conclusion that loops lengths here restrict train lengths (and so weight) so you don't actually need more locos, plus more locos = more train length too.

 

One idea I'd considered was a modern day mixed freight and passenger inner city tramway. A historic city has banned all lorries from the centre, so all deliveries of stock for larger shops is by ISO containers on flatcars that transfer from the mainline rail network to the tram network via a connection. Passenger trams would be pretty standard, but the freight would need little electric tractors, similar to some of the Swiss shunting tractors. I think the container flats would have to be short, but with bogies to cope with the sharp curves, There would be loads of little private sidings to the loading bays for the shops.

 

Sound idea but I'd go one step further with a freight variation of ULTra PRT, though probably with a mix of electric feed on the open elevated stretches and battery at the points of loading/unloading.

[5050]

 

The LB&SCR E2/ Sodor E2X tank locomotive is of some interest to me

[/url]">http://

 

- as i'm at the start of modelling The Railway Series. Dalby gave Awdry a fair bit of grief with his drawings in his books. One problem was Thomas's running plate. It gnawed at him so much that he released a revamped book called 'Thomas comes to breakfast' drawn by Clive Spong. After he smashes his front buffer beam up against the station master's house he is sent to the works. In the rewrite, this job is more extensive.

  There has been talk on http://sodor.proboards.com about the ins ands outs about how realistic is would be to alter his running plate- with all of the mechanics involved etc. However I very recently found out about this curiosity.

[/url]">http://

. It was fitted with an E4 boiler- so a swap job basically in December 1953. It also has Clack valves on the boiler sides and a different dome. As Daisy arrived under BR rule, I'm guessing with a fair bit of certainty that this Southern engine had its rebuild some years before Thomas's rebuild. The Fat Controller may even of got the idea from reading about it. After he comes out the work shop he would look like is iconic self, as opposed to a standard E2.

 

 

The running plate being lowered 

[/url]">http://

 

gives the need for his splashers and he can have larger side tanks- giving a slightly longer running distance between refills and better adhesion to the track as well as giving Thomas his fat an dumpy look over a standard E2. I'm no rail expert, but I think this stacks up.

 

Anyway this is actually what I wanted to talk about. 

I've chosen to do 'The three Railway Engines' as a basis for my first layout. More accurately the Ballahoo tunnels, from 'The Sad story of Henry' and 'Edward, Gordon and Henry'. I choose this one first, as i'm green to modelling and its the most simplest of all my plans. I've dove strait into the deep end with P4. This has been problematic, but I want my layout to look as close to the real thing as possible. I'm trying to be faithful to the images, but I want what would be prototypical on a railway as a first. 'The Sad story of Henry' is a very far fetched one in reality, but with a lot of pondering, I've got a semi believable basis to make the story work- in a reality where trains are sentient at least.

Anyway the line at the tunnel is a single, but is double beyond the mouth on both sides

[/url]">http://

 ( Ignore the left bore on the template).

- this was done for cheapness and speed at the time when the NWR was formed in 1915. Henry blocks the tunnel- effectively cutting off the flow of traffic. This is the unbelievable bit. He stays there, and they build another cutting next to him using the south line instead.

[/url]">http://

I'm basically happy with this, but i've found i'm having trouble with the bend in the track on the other side of my layout ( the tunnels have been inverted to make the best use of space ), where it goes from the standard distance away from the second line

[/url]">http://

to the new bore cutting.

[/url]">http://

The problem up to a point is the flexie P4 track I have. Annoyingly its a shade tight on the roller gauge. Its ok for strait track- though I will be building my own for beyond the tunnels, where it curves and on my next layout project. I was was thinking that I need to uplift that S curve area and replace it with an even more gentle curve. At the time I thought it ample, but with the some derailments and looking at it more from a prototype point of view i'm not so sure its right. ( I know about the importance of weighting and gauge widening etc, but I don't want to focus on that here). 

 

I want to faithful to the drawings.

[/url]">http://

( ignore the top row, as they were incorrectly drawn at the time of the first story and received a revamp imagery later on ). With the middle support support wall, but i'm thinking, if I got rid of it and just had two supports on the outside edges of the bores, then I could shave down the gap between them a bit more- up to a cm or so.

What I really want to know is there a minimum distance to be had between two single tunnel bores? The ones i've found tend to be bigger. I suppose tunnelling too close to one another might be unsafe.

In a normal soil type hill, would the the tunnel have to be brick lined to pass for public use in 1923, even at reduced speed? One theory I had to make the story some what believable to that two crews started a relief cutting. One at the entrée bore, laying the double track up to it, and the other crew starting behind the track of Henry's tender. This would quicky re-open the line. Crews would be working in shifts, to complete this as quickly as possible. After that, tunnelling could progress at a more reasonable pace. On a quiet day, they relay the temporary cross-over to the new tunnel. ( I've seen an old documentary of the relaying of one of London's terminus stations entree track work. This is one busy complicated track work area, but they do the work for a set amount of hours every sunday, until it is finished ).

Could this temporary in tunnel cross-over be supported by wooden supports like a mine, or would it have to be brick lined? Is it practical to do tho piece meal or would they have to wait until the digging was completed, then start?

 

[/url]">http://

">[/url]

 

I could stretch out the S bend regardless, but it will also make things easier on the left end of my layout where the express cross over exists when I come to build it, as I only have X amount of space between the board edge and where the tunnel mouths need to start.

 

As much as i've learned since joining the scale-four society, I don't know that much about tunnels. Can anyone help please.

 

Not not sure if this is the right thread to ask, but i'm new to this forum and it is a freelance project.

 

Thanks.

Morgan.

 

Wow!  A genuine P4 Thomas layout!  I've been waiting for one of these for years!

 

I wonder what the original Protofour 'Founding Fathers' would think

[steves17]

Wow!  A genuine P4 Thomas layout!  I've been waiting for one of these for years!

 

I wonder what the original Protofour 'Founding Fathers' would think

 

Ha! Thanks- though i'm not actually the first. Knuckles set the bar some years back. He started in OO and his kit builds of Sodor's locos are a marvel. I almost went down the OO route, but decided to hold off until going to the NEC- where to my surprise I ended up joining The Scale-four society. Building this layout has been quite vexing, but I want it to look as prototypical as possible, allowing me to run real world trains also (i'm not counting chair bolts,and correct region signals etc, but I want it to look like the 'real Sodor' ). 

  I think my problem on the track stemmed more from one rail being a shade high on the joint rather than the curve being under-scale/too sharp. If I were to have started again I would of smoothed it out a little further and moved the board joint up, but its quite a gentle transition. Out of curiosity I would be interested to know if anyone could answer my tunnel questions, but i've decided to forge on, as the wiring is all ready done. Here is where i'm up to now.

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 These are the TV Bachmann type models- just thought I would include them in this edit showing my progress with the tunnel and embankment- as they are going to be boxed up. The plan is to one day make Edward from a Dragon Models K2 kit ( after its actually built of corse  , way down the line, just converting some OO rolling stock for the moment).  

I need to get my kit built turnout operational, but while waiting for a part, I thought I would make a start on the tunnel and embankment.  

*My wire came today-so I can do the point rodding now, then make a TOU and hopefully get my tortoise to operate from there. When its done i will tidy up the track a bit more than push on the scenery side of things. I might have to get a servo otherwise, but I hope I can get the tortoise and accessory decoder working. I've got my fancy DCC controller system working at least. 

 

This is a working test layout and it will only be used for 2 stories, plus any proxy ones I might make up, so I can live with the odd discrepancy. Making this one so far has already taught me a lot.

Here is my Wilbert-its not finished, as it will need a repaint and a proper face ( the one on there was just put on for a quick mock up shot). I might try and fit a Hornby shell on top too ( seen in the background), as this kit build isn't quite as good.

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And here is my Oliver at the time he was rescued from scrap in Barrow-in-Furness.

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and after The Fat Controller put him to work on 'The little Western' with Duck. I decided to give him GWR lettering instead, as I find the shirt button a little more subdued. ( it is my take on Sodor-so I can tweak some of the Fat Controller's choices   ). 

Update, as the tunnel section is almost looking like a layout now. The plastic mix has had a brown wash and a Bachman 57xx has had a face swap.

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( the 00 coaches are giving him a little jip and he's scorning the Spiteful Brakevan.    )

 

Though the wheel are still OO for now, i've sprayed up a Bachmann 08 and stuck on a battery Tommy Face with a simple repaint of the white plastic.

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I think the founding farther's would have heart attacks with Sodor's wild range of loco's and rolling stock, but it certainly lends its self wonderfully to freelance modelling.

 

If you do want to know more about my work you'll have to first sign up to

http://sodor.proboards.com

 

Be prepared for the bright images- as its for fans of all ages, but there are a number of us interested in a 'Sliders' type universe/parallel reality, where there is a land mass between Barrow and the Isle of Man and having it mixed into real Britain's history- railway wise and beyond.

My thread is under model railway madness. Sleeper agent- Agent's reports. I'm also working on an extensive history event guide, chronicling Sodor's rich history. Its not complete by a country mile, but I think you'll be surprised by just how much Awdry and others put into Sodor's genesis onwards.  

 

This might also be of interest to some people. 

http://www.pegnsean.net/~railwayseries/engines.htm

It gives a history of Sodor's locos from the books- I'm modelling 'The Railway series', not 'Thomas and friends', but it also has the TV universes fleet, mixed in with other tid bits.

Via that web site there are links to Knuckles OO locos on Henry, Gordon, James, Duck and Oliver's profiles- they are pretty good and I look forward to seeing his P4 ones in time.

 

Cheers.

Edited September 8, 2014 by steves17

[John B]

Some interesting points made earlier about "house styles" of the pre-grouping companies and locomotive builders. Sharp Stewart sold "house" designs to the Furness, M&GN and Cambrian; North British sold many house designs abroad - locomotives on the Etat in France, in Belgium and in Spain from NB had definite echoes of the Highland Railway "Castle" class about them. Other classes in Europe bore resemblance to Caley designs.

 

The pre-grouping companies also had a penchant for switching CMEs, or for CMEs to take their style from one railway to another, or even from one generation to another. Stroudley's Terriers were pre-dated by a similar design for the Highland. There's a lot of similarity between the designs of the Drummonds, for the LSWR (Dugald) and NB, Caledonian and Highland (Peter), the Johnsons for the Midland and the GNSR, the Stirlings for the GNR and H&B, to pick on but a few. Before Peter Drummond, David Jones (Highland CME) had worked at Crewe for the LNWR, hence the "Crewe" or "Jones" splasher / cylinder style evident on Jones' designs being very close to early LNWR practice. And for IainP's purposes, a Wordsell "house style" for his work of fiction could legitimately include the GER Wordsell designs as well as those from Darlington...

 

Lots of scope for originality and "plausible fiction" in this area...

[siltec]

I have gone down the freelance route in a big way. It all started with a thought on using an inkjet printer to print tinplate and quickly realising that the answer was card bodied models. Not being inclined to spend hours getting the number of rivets right on a model I realised that this was a quick way to produce models, especially recycling exisitng chassis.

 

Now it has turned out that Bo-Bo chassis of various types are cheap to acquire. My first try out was trams and this interested directed me towards urban railways. Anyhow to speed things up I decided on my own simplified card models rather than try to copy existing rolling stock. This decision wa influenced by the fact that none of my powered chassis actually fitted on any known tram or railcar design, past or present.

 

Moving on to increase productivity and eliminate the boredom of cutting out lots of windows I acquired a Cameo Silhouette cutter. Basically a plotter with a knife head. Works as a plotter too. The Avatar is a combined effort.

Anyhow some examples to date:

 

Firstly my gallery of some of my tram efforts.

 

 

And the latest efforts urban trains.

 

 

 

 

[Robatron86]

Freelancing is quite common in the US modelling world. Many "shortlines" have been created with ficticious companies. 

[Nearholmer]

Have you chaps seen Edwardian's 'Castle Aching' thread?

 

(Beware, it is more a complex set of warps and wefts than a single thread, but he is freelancing away in great style.)

 

K

[Iain Popplewell]

Thanks for pointing out the thread Nearholmer looks good. Another one well worth a look for freelancers is" Nile's mostly freelance bodging bench" inspirational and instructional. In fact useful for anyone contemplating a bit of RTR. engine and stock bashing.

Edited October 24, 2016 by iainp

[detheridge]

To revive this thread a bit more, here's a site to give you ideas on location:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fictional_counties

 

David.

[detheridge]

Or this one:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Fictional_populated_places_in_England