Am I wrong to want to brush paint my brass locos?

[Stringfingerling]

I have two Tower brass locos - a 4575 and a 48xx.  I am tempted to approach painting them completely by brush.  I don't currently own a compressor, or a painting spray booth, and I do like painting models with brushes.  it occurs to me that experts often spray paint a loco body all over with a main colour and then pick out black bits with a brush. If a brush finish is good enough for those parts, perhaps it would be good enough for boiler cladding etc as well.  I feel as though, with care, and a number of very thin coats of enamel, perhaps using turpentine rather than thinner, it would be possible to get a very clear smooth finish, and I'm planning to experiment on some spare pieces of brass to test this out.   

 

Why?

 

Partly, I don't want to spend money on equipment unnecessarily, but partly because there is going to be brush painting involved anyway, so why not just to a bit more of it? Eventually I want to achieve an "in use but cared for" type of weathering.  I know I need to read "The Art of Weathering" by Martyn Welch, but i feel fairly confident that I can achieve a lot of the weathering effects I want with a paintbrush. 

 

Your thoughts please!

[Jim Bob]

Of course you can use a brush! There are plenty of posts on this website about brush painting. See Mikkel's contributions - probably under "Painting and Weathering". By the way, "thinners" is a generic term - not alluding to DIY store "thinners" for home decorating use. For enamels, use turpentine; for acylics, use water.

 

Jim Bob

[Stringfingerling]

Thanks for the encouragement folks! 

 

I realise i can do what I like to my engines   , but naturally I would like to them to look as good as I can make them!  My first steps are going to be use Birchwood Casey brass black on the bits where the paint is liable to getting scratched, whatever method of painting I use.

 

More to follow

 

Rob

[Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71]

Hi Rob,

 

I do have a good compressor and airbrush but thus far I have always used many layers of well thinned Phoenix paints, applied with a wide range of good brushes. There is something very individual about creating a one off, hand brushed, weathered piece of stock. 

 

Cheers

 

Dave

[Armchair Modeller]

Unless you want pristine models, spray painting can give far too "good" a finish. The real thing could look quite rough in real life, even after cleaning - unless of course you are modelling modern stock with high gloss paints etc.

[t-b-g]

Many of my kit built locos are brush painted. I usually use several coats of well thinned Railmatch paint, with a good drying time between coats.

 

The reason for the part sprayed/part brushed approach is that it avoids the hassle of masking. An aerosol of GWR green will give decent results for the main flat surfaces, such as the tank and bunker sides and the boiler, where any imperfections will tend to show up. Then the secondary colour, black, which is on far fewer flat surfaces, can be brushed without too much risk of imperfections showing.

 

I have used an all over spray (usually if a loco is black) a part/part and an all brushed finish and I challenge anybody to say which is which when they are on a layout.

 

Good luck and let us know how you get on,

 

Tony

[Stringfingerling]

Thanks again folks!

 

I think my mind is made up!

 

I shall take my time and do everything in careful stages and post some photos as I go.

 

Cheers

 

Rob

[kandc_au]

Rob,

When I was in the Uk a couple of years ago....how time flies.

I was introduced to a chap whose name eludes me who paints all his loco's with a brush.

frankly it looked like it had been spray painted.

When I asked the how's... all he said was use a brush a lot larger than you would think.

Hope that is of help.

 

Khris

[Stringfingerling]

Hi Khris,

 

I can understand that; I've noticed that larger brushes are easier to get an even finish with.  I've been experimenting with some odds and ends of brass and I've found, using satin humbrol paint, let down with turpentine, that it's quite easy to get a very smooth brush finish.  Having read other comments about Hammerite Special Metals primer, I've tried that and found it worked well, though I've found it a bit tricky to eliminate all build up of brush marks even when its diluted.

[Rumblestripe]

I believe that (historically at least) the GWR was also reliant on brush painting it's locos!

 

I would consider using a primer from an aerosol can though. Halfords auto primers are pretty good and easily available. Oh and don't use a cheap brush, they are much more likely to shed hairs (which will ruin a finish, especially if unnoticed when wet!). A good sable is money well spent no matter what paint you are using, just make sure you clean it REALLY thoroughly when you finish!

[bluebottle]

Would anyone care to show us some examples of their brushwork, to show us what can be done and give us something to aim at?

[Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71]

Would anyone care to show us some examples of their brushwork, to show us what can be done and give us something to aim at?

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/43564631@N08/5231311308/in/photostream

 

....this is how I weather wagons Gordon but the principle is the same. The golden rules are: don't expect paint to hide surface imperfections...prepare all surfaces fastidiously: use newish paint and mix/thin it well (Phoenix is my paint and thinners of choice): paint what you see rather than just buying cans of paint with specific shades written on them before slapping them on: I use flat matte almost exclusively...this also means that a different texture e.g. oil on axleboxes contrasts and stands out: use an artists dimple palette with around 8 different shades of the colour that you're aiming at so that you can blend different shades together (and create other new ones): I apply paint in layers so thin that you can see through them...build your desired finish in very thin layers: Make vertical brushstrokes only...gravity means that anything running over the surface of a wagon generally does so vertically: Lastly, know when to stop.  

 

Dave

[Xerces Fobe2]

Brush painting with acrylics is easy and gives good results

 

Here is an example

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XF

[t-b-g]

I have experimented with all sorts of shapes and sizes of brushes and find that I get my best results from using a flat brush rather than a round one. The ones I am currently using are £1.99 for a set of 4 from "The Works" shops but sometimes thay appear in a half price sale so I stock up then. Despite being so inexpensive, they seem to be decent quality and don't shed hairs and when the eventually need replacing (usually because I have skimped on cleaning them properly!) I don't worry about the cost. 

 

Tony

[t-b-g]

Not a loco but this is an LT&SR carriage, painted with Tamiya acrylics and varnished with Johnson's Klear, all done with a "Works" flat brush.

 

[Armchair Modeller]

Did you thin the acrylics to any extent to paint the coach? A more detailed description would be appreciated.

[Kenton]

 

I realise i can do what I like to my engines   , but naturally I would like to them to look as good as I can make them!

Owning an airbrush and booth does not automatically mean that using one produces better results than a brush - I have one, and it doesn't. But then my brush painting isn't anything I'd dare show anyone.

 

In the end it is what is acceptable to you and if you are competent using a brush to achieve that standard then settle with that. An airbush is not going to be an instant answer just another technique to learn and maybe, just maybe, take to a level beyond brush painting.

 

In your position I would probably settle for brush painting, then think of an airbrush and when up to a better standard, strip one down and repaint with an airbrush. That way you can enjoy what you have within your limitations and gain a new technique at leisure practising on something less important.

[micklner]

I( would suggest spraying the brass with Halfords Grey Primer this will give a much better surface to pint onto, than direct onto brass

[t-b-g]

Did you thin the acrylics to any extent to paint the coach? A more detailed description would be appreciated.

 

The carriages were primed with Halfords red oxide primer first. I usually use a spray can for this but on this particular set I saw that they had the primer in a can, along with cellulose thinners so I airbrushed the primer. It reminded me why I like brushing....... much less mess and cleaning up afterwards!

 

The Tamiya acrylic was thinned with water in an old ice cube mould I use as a palette/paint mixer (4 for a pound from a pound shop - I like modelling on the cheap!) and was brushed on quite well thinned. This seems to keep detail quite clear and crisp. It dries so quickly that b the time you have done the second side of a carriage, the first side is dry enough for a second coat.

 

The actual colour I used was all used up and the jar has been chucked away but it was something obscure like Japanese Navy Linoleum Brown.

 

It probably took 3-4 coats but as it takes less than a minute to do each side, it is still a really quick process.

 

The paint I used was a matt finish and to start with it looked dreadful and flat but a couple of coats of Klear really lifted it. When you look at carriage photos, even during the most run down days of the 1960s, you can usually see a reflection in carriage sides, so I prefer a medium to gloss finish, even if underframes, ends and roofs are left matt and weathered.

 

I am not 100% sure of the finished colour. All the records state that LTSR carriages were varnished teak but the photos show a much darker solid colour, which looks painted rather than being grained. I have a colour photo of a preserved LTSR Carriage Crest, which is mounted on a very dark green background, which would tie in with the photos but not the written records.

 

In the absence of any firm information, a "dark wood" solid colour was adopted but I am fully expecting to be told it is wrong! A dark green, matching the dark green borders on the loco livery, would actually make a lot of sense and would look really smart.

 

I am just doing something similar on a rake of LBSCR 4 wheelers. It is hard to believe that the carriges pre and post "Klear" are actually the same colour.

 

I hope that helps but if you need to know any more, please just ask and I will help if I can,

 

Tony

[Armchair Modeller]

Many thanks Tony. You confirmed my own very limited experience with acrylics - that several brushed thin coats can work really well. The LTSR carriage is beautiful, by the way, whatever colour it ought to be!

[t-b-g]

Many thanks Tony. You confirmed my own very limited experience with acrylics - that several brushed thin coats can work really well. The LTSR carriage is beautiful, by the way, whatever colour it ought to be!

 

Thanks for the kind words!

 

I enjoy painting with acrylics due to the speed of drying, the ability to use very thin washes, the lack of smell/fumes and the nice finish I seem to be able to get. They are not as durable as enamels or cellulose but it is a trade off I am happy to accept. I don't always use Tamiya. There happened to be a nice brown in my box ready for use. I use Hunbrol, various plastic bottles sold for artists and pretty much any other brand or type I see around. I also use acrylic paints or inks for lining nowadays.

 

For anything like a proper railway colour, such as a red & cream BR carriage, I use Railmatch paints in the same way as the acrylics. Several thin coats of well thinned paint. You have to leave a good drying time between coats but it works just as well.

 

There are some things, like a plain black loco, that will still get a spray of Halfords matt or satin black but I rarely use the airbrush and compressor.

 

Regards

 

Tony

[Stringfingerling]

Here are my efforts so far on the 14xx..   Still awaiting GWR lettering, cabside numbers and much else.  I'm going to keep some of the gloss in the paintwork, but will try to make it look as though is "in use and cared for after recent overhaul".....

 

[Chris g]

Nice work

[t-b-g]

From that evidence I would think it safe to say that the answer to your question is "No". You are not wrong to brush paint.

 

Looking really nice and a lovely finish on it. I agree about keeping a bit of shine on it too, especially on the tank/bunker sides, which is where the cleaners could reach easily.

 

Tony

[Stringfingerling]

Thanks Tony, you're very kind

 

Rob