Coke Traffic on BR

[billbedford]

I can remember seeing a line of coke hoppers in Newport docks being loaded with apples from a French coaster. Presumably they would have been going to Hereford. This was Late summer 1969.

[Mark Saunders]

Current coke traffic

 

Redcar to Llanwern in sets of 31 HTA's and also Scunthorpe in the Scunthorpe iron ore tipplers.

 

Mark Saunders

[hmrspaul]

 

 

If you can see North Devon, it's going to rain; if you can't, it's already started.

Err Brian was quite correct, it was very rare for us to see rain in South Wales, which is what I wrote.

I worked there in the summer of 1970 - I had to spray experimental plots all over the place, 5 days a week and NEVER missed a day. I only remember once being caught in a thunderstorm at Ham Farm, Llantwit (they had a lovely set of van bodies). Admittedly, once it began to rain in the autumn it rained and rained and rained.

As to the later wagoning years, my photo site is filled with thousands of photos taken in brilliant conditions at various times from early April through to August. In the later 1970s and 1980s we often went there at either Easter or the May bank holiday and had excellent weather - too good sometimes as Julie insisted we leave Swansea Docks and go to the beach - late May 1978 - as we were baking.

Paul Bartlett

[Arthur]

Current coke traffic

 

Redcar to Llanwern

 

Mark Saunders

 

Is that correct Mark? I ask because there are no longer blast furnaces at Llanwern, I'd have thought Port Talbot more likely??

 

Arthur

[Mark Saunders]

Is that correct Mark? I ask because there are no longer blast furnaces at Llanwern, I'd have thought Port Talbot more likely??

 

Arthur

 

A slip of the keyboard!

 

Mark Saunders

[br2975]

I only remember once being caught in a thunderstorm at Ham Farm, Llantwit (they had a lovely set of van bodies).

 

I wish I'd known, as my camera was usuall y at my side. . . . . In the mid 70s I was part of a team that carried out the surveys in advance of the construction of the Llantwit Major by-pass and Ham Lane fell within our survey area.

 

It was a source of great amusement that when I surveyed a culvert - that flowed under the Vale of Glamorgan line, my 'levels' indicated the stream was flowing "up hill" !

 

I left soon after !

 

Brian

[hmrspaul]

I wish I'd known, as my camera was usuall y at my side. . . . . In the mid 70s I was part of a team that carried out the surveys in advance of the construction of the Llantwit Major by-pass and Ham Lane fell within our survey area.

 

It was a source of great amusement that when I surveyed a culvert - that flowed under the Vale of Glamorgan line, my 'levels' indicated the stream was flowing "up hill" !

 

I left soon after !

 

Brian

Brian

 

It didn't need any special permission for access. They had a camp site and the entrance to it drove past the vans - they were still there when we camped there in the later 1970s but I didn't waste film on them; by the evening on those days I would have been "all wagonned out".

 

Paul Bartlett

[caradoc]

I can remember seeing a line of coke hoppers in Newport docks being loaded with apples from a French coaster. Presumably they would have been going to Hereford. This was Late summer 1969.

 

Hopefully this train wasn't sent to a steelworks by mistake ! (Unless it was Appleby-Frodingham of course).

 

There was a huge coking plant at Manvers, near Wath; I believe trips to and from Wath Yard were worked by pairs of Class 08s. And another at Avenue, south of Chesterfield. Both plants are long gone of course; The Avenue site is currently being reclaimed, and is described as the most heavily contaminated industrial site in Europe. Certainly from a passing train, yellow smoke could always be seen emanating from a chimney, although I actually found the accompanying smell quite pleasant. I suppose the disappearnce of places like these illustrates the huge change in Britain's industry over the last 30-40 years.

[buckdancer]

I'm not surprised about that site, south of Hasland shed, but on the other side of the line.

The smell of the factory (Coalite if I remember correctly) cleared your sinuses immediately.

[cheesysmith]

Wasn`t there also orgreve, next to rotherwood sidings? That was a coking plant IIRC? Me didn`t have a sense of smell until I moved away from brinsworth.

 

Cheesysmith

[Fat Controller]

Wasn`t there also orgreve, next to rotherwood sidings? That was a coking plant IIRC? Me didn`t have a sense of smell until I moved away from brinsworth.

 

Cheesysmith

Orgeave was indeed a coking plant, and the site of a well documented dispute between police and strikers during the 1984 miners' strike. I have a vague memory that it belonged to British Steel, rather than the NCB.

One great thing about the smell from coke ovens (which you also got from pre-North Sea Gas gasworks and some oil refineries) was that no-one could tell if you'd let rip...Natural gas doesn't have anything like such a strong odour, which caused all sorts of problems when it first arrived- it now has a concentrated odour mixed with it before being sent to homes.

To return to the coke hoppers- I used to encounter the HCOs bound for Imperial Smelting when walking from St Andrew's Road to my workplace on Smoke Lane in the mid-1970s. I don't recollect seeing any wagon with as little of the original paint remaining.

[br2975]

Orgeave was indeed a coking plant, and the site of a well documented dispute between police and strikers during the 1984 miners' strike. I have a vague memory that it belonged to British Steel, rather than the NCB.

 

Completely off topic, but Orgreave was used to divert the attention of the NUM during the bitter dispute. BSC were allegedly shipping coke in directly to some east coast plants from Antwerp where they had been stockpiling coke prior to the miners strike. As Orgreave supplied Scunthorpe (amongst other places) by rail - and the trains had been 'blacked' by the NUR & ASLEF the coke was moved in lorry convoys by road and the miners set to blockading the plant in order to prevent coke leaving (a repeat of Scargill's tactics at Saltley years earlier, which brought down Heath's government).

 

Thatcher's government were happy to allow miners and police to slug it out in what amounted to a meaningless battle at Orgreave, as it diverted the miners attention away from picketting the 'megawatt valley' power stations (Trent Valley) and the working pits in Nottinghamshire and thereby prevented power cuts.

 

My apologies to the moderators, but it goes to show you don't just get railway information on this forum, but social history as well.

 

Brian R

[Rivercider]

 

To return to the coke hoppers- I used to encounter the HCOs bound for Imperial Smelting when walking from St Andrew's Road to my workplace on Smoke Lane in the mid-1970s. I don't recollect seeing any wagon with as little of the original paint remaining.

 

 

The coke for I.S.C. used to come variously from Cwm or Coed Ely, via Llantrisant and Severn Tunnel Junction, or from Nantgarw via Radyr and STJ.

The service from Severn Tunnel Junction to Hallen Marsh ran 6 days a week, bringing other traffic also for the Avonmouth area.

Later, once the HCO and HCPs were scrapped the traffic came from Grange Sidings Margam in HTVs on a service direct to Hallen Marsh.

 

cheers

[hmrspaul]

The coke for I.S.C. used to come variously from Cwm or Coed Ely, via Llantrisant and Severn Tunnel Junction, or from Nantgarw via Radyr and STJ.

The service from Severn Tunnel Junction to Hallen Marsh ran 6 days a week, bringing other traffic also for the Avonmouth area.

Later, once the HCO and HCPs were scrapped the traffic came from Grange Sidings Margam in HTVs on a service direct to Hallen Marsh.

 

cheers

 

The coke hoppers rotted away - coke is very acidic when wet - and HUOs replaced them in some South Wales traffic see http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brhopperhuo/edba1c39 (in decent weather!)

 

Paul Bartlett

[Arthur]

Orgeave was indeed a coking plant, and the site of a well documented dispute between police and strikers during the 1984 miners' strike. I have a vague memory that it belonged to British Steel, rather than the NCB.

 

That's right Brian, the Orgreave ovens were originally owned by the United Steels Companies and supplied Appleby Frodingham with coke, which did not have it's own coking plant until the 1950's. Ownership eventually passed to the BSC until closure in 1990.

[philwaglab]

Coke was also supplied in cokehops to Ebbw Vale from 1970 to 1975.From about 1974 the coke came in HTO's & HTV's.We also had a few 13 ton hoppers in with coke and the odd hopper in the train for Pensnett,these were usually unloaded and documents adjusted.

[br2975]

These four undated photos were taken by the late Bob Ranson, formerly a driver at Llantrisant.

 

From the Cl.37 having a TOPS number and displaying a 0O00 headcode, I would estimate the incident to have taken place  between 1974-1976/1977. 

They show the derailment of a loaded train entering Llantrisant Yard near the former Mwyndy Junction .

As the train contains both coke (in both 20ton coke hoppers and 24.1/2 ton hoppers) and coal (in ‘pools’) it would appear the train originated at Cwm (Llantwit) Colliery as opposed to Coed Ely.

Of interest are the close up photos showing the coke hoppers.

B449114 “HOP COKE”

B449189 “Experimental HCO”

Both wagons are from Dia. 1/152 Lot 3122 and branded ‘Pensnett’ being allocated to TOPS Pool 7078, for the traffic of foundry coke between Llantrisant and Kingswinford, for Messrs Lunt, Comley & Pitt at Pensnett.

The extended hopper chutes fitted to these wagons can be seen.

I don’t know what the ‘experimental’ modification(s) of B449189 amounted to.

.

Can anyone add anything further ?

.

Brian R

[Fat Controller]

Might the 'experiment' have been the first trials of the 'Pensnett Shute'? BR was prone to leave painted inscriptions about 'Experiments' long after the experiment had ceased- it became even worse when the experiment details were on yellow plastic panels, screwed to the vehicle.

What was peculiar about Pensnett that the chutes had to be fitted?

[jonny777]

Rather O/T but my late mother in law used a solid fuel rayburn cooker/water heater in her home until she died. She always used domestic coke because it burned very hot and did not fall apart quickly like the more modern equivalents.

 

About 10 years ago, she was told by her coal merchant, that the last UK domestic coking plant (in Bolsover I believe) was closing and there would be no more supplies after that. She had to switch to bags of stuff called Homebright or similar names, which she said were far inferior products.

 

At the time, I did try a search on the internet but nothing seemed to be available in small quantities; so presumably domestic coke use ceased about that time.

 

Sadly, she has passed away, so I will never again have the challenge of cooking a roast dinner in that coke fired oven; but it was fun trying (especially the home made yorkshire puddings).

[Mark Saunders]

Might the 'experiment' have been the first trials of the 'Pensnett Shute'? BR was prone to leave painted inscriptions about 'Experiments' long after the experiment had ceased- it became even worse when the experiment details were on yellow plastic panels, screwed to the vehicle.

What was peculiar about Pensnett that the chutes had to be fitted?

 

It can be seen in the photograph that the original 'Monkey Tail' type doors have been replaced with doors/hopper pans like those on the 24.5 ton Coal Hoppers!

 

Mark Saunders

[Devonbelle]

I recollect the coke traffic to imperial smelting at Avonmouth (line diverged at Hallen Marsh Jn). The traffic in the mid 80s and certainly to 1988 was in HTV hoppers from South Wales and hauled by a 37. Wagons bereft of paint - just rust.

 

BTW I am loving the Bob Ranson photos - he was a great driver and photographer - I remember the day the Cwm coking traffic finished he rang me (March 1987) to say that was the end of Llantrisant Traincrew depot - the next few weeks I fixed things to keep the Llnatrisant 37 busy on engineers trip workings - to delay the inevitable closure of the depot.

 

Paul