13t Sand Wagons: in use

[BRealistic]

I can’t resist a bargain, and at £4.25 each, I couldn’t stop myself from buying the last 3 Bachmann 13t low-sided Sand Wagons from my local shop. That was easy, but finding out about their usage has been the opposite! Haven’t been able to find a single pic showing one that’s loaded… as that’s what I want to do… create authentic-looking loads. I’m guessing chutes were used at source, and that, maybe, this would result in at least 2 (merging) heaps?? I’ve come across pix of longer wheelbase wagons with 3 heaps… but that’s all (I'm modelling early 60s).

 

Also, even though I understand they’re ‘tipplers’, could such wagons have been used to transport loco sand, as I fancy the idea of ‘posing’ a half-empty one near my loco shed! In this scenario, would the sand have been a particular type/colour?

[Fat Controller]

I can’t resist a bargain, and at £4.25 each, I couldn’t stop myself from buying the last 3 Bachmann 13t low-sided Sand Wagons from my local shop. That was easy, but finding out about their usage has been the opposite! Haven’t been able to find a single pic showing one that’s loaded… as that’s what I want to do… create authentic-looking loads. I’m guessing chutes were used at source, and that, maybe, this would result in at least 2 (merging) heaps?? I’ve come across pix of longer wheelbase wagons with 3 heaps… but that’s all (I'm modelling early 60s).

 

Also, even though I understand they’re ‘tipplers’, could such wagons have been used to transport loco sand, as I fancy the idea of ‘posing’ a half-empty one near my loco shed! In this scenario, would the sand have been a particular type/colour?

Given they were only 13t capacity, the sand probably didn't reach the top of the sides- having shovelled quite a lot over the years, I can vouch for it being very dense. The load would have started off heaped (Oakamoor tended to be one heap), but would blow off/settle to a flatter angle of repose very quickly.

The sand was for use in glass-making and, to a lesser extent, mould making (for foundries) and abrasive powders. The main places that I've heard of using these tipplers were Oakamoor (near Cheadle), Chelford (near Congleton) and Leighton Buzzard- the flows were mainly to the St Helens area. The wagons would be seen in conjunction with other types, such as Covhops, Prestwins and 27t ore tipplers.

I don't know if these wagons were used for loco sand- my impression is that most loco sand arrived bagged in vans in later years, though sand-drying ovens were a feature of many sheds in earlier days.

I think a lot of these wagons went over to engineers' use fairly early, as companies moved to covered hoppers to reduce handling and contamination.

[Fat Controller]

A link to Paul Bartlett's site:-

One loaded with foundry sand and sheeted:- http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brsand/h3af0039a#h3af0039a

[br2975]

Also, even though I understand they’re ‘tipplers’, could such wagons have been used to transport loco sand, as I fancy the idea of ‘posing’ a half-empty one near my loco shed! In this scenario, would the sand have been a particular type/colour?

In short, yes.

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In 1968 when the 'nine-fivers' (Class 14 to the younger generation) were in their last days, several were stored on the sand house road at the west end of Canton's servicing shed. The road also accomodated a couple of BR sand wagons (bauxite liveried) with supplies for drying.

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There is a photo somewhere on the web of D9500 taken here in March 1968 parked with two tipplers.

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Brian R

[BRealistic]

That's so, so, helpful Brian and Brian. Just before starting the topic, I visited Paul Bartlett's site but I have to admit I missed the sheeted example... and there's clearly 3 heaps hidden beneath... which I think adds a little interest to a load compared to a single, 'levelling-off' mound.

 

Great, too, to have a 'siting' close to a shed... and if there was an oven for drying, where would it have located, inside or out? Might be some modelling potential, here, although I haven't the faintest idea what they would look like!

 

Thanks again, guys. Yet again RMwebbers come up trumps!!

 

PS. A bit on the large size for my layout, but just found this example at Bourneville! (about two thirds down the page)

 

http://www.photobydjnorton.com/BournvilleShed.html

Edited April 10, 2013 by BRealistic

[TheSignalEngineer]

I used to work up against the line at Stoke in 1971. The Oakamoor wagons usually had two heaps IIRC.

[Fat Controller]

That's so, so, helpful Brian and Brian. Just before starting the topic, I visited Paul Bartlett's site but I have to admit I missed the sheeted example... and there's clearly 3 heaps hidden beneath... which I think adds a little interest to a load compared to a single, 'levelling-off' mound.

 

Great, too, to have a 'siting' close to a shed... and if there was an oven for drying, where would it have located, inside or out? Might be some modelling potential, here, although I haven't the faintest idea what they would look like!

 

Thanks again, guys. Yet again RMwebbers come up trumps!!

 

PS. A bit on the large size for my layout, but just found this example at Bourneville! (about two thirds down the page)

 

http://www.photobydjnorton.com/BournvilleShed.html

Horwich wouldn't have been sand for locos, but moulding sand for the foundry- Horwich used to cast all of BR's brake shoes, amongst other things. IIRC, the sand used to be mixed with a small amount of molasses to help it keep its shape when the pattern was removed. The resultant smell when hot iron was poured into it was not pleasant.. My memories of this were from BSC Landore which, in the early 1970s, had its sand delivered by road from Chelford by Arclid Transport.

[br2975]

 

 

Great, too, to have a 'siting' close to a shed... and if there was an oven for drying, where would it have located, inside or out? Might be some modelling potential, here, although I haven't the faintest idea what they would look like!

 

 

 

In this link is a modern aerial view of Canton TMD.

 

http://www.webbaviation.co.uk/gallery/v/wales/cardiff/CardiffCantonTMD-db73393.jpg.html

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The South Wales main line is to the left, the first building to the right of the SWML is the former servicing shed - and in the bottom corner closest to us the sand shed juts out - close to where the Arriva Mk.2 coach is parked.

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Brian R

Edited April 10, 2013 by br2975

[BRealistic]

I see it, Brian, and have used Google maps to get a closer view. I've also discovered you can buy kits of Sand Houses 'with chimney attached'... not that I'll be doing that, but now I have an idea of what a small one would look like, if I decide to do something freelance. I presume the chimney at Canton was taken down after it became redundant?

 

Oh, and thanks Signal Engineer for that observation. Can you recall whether or not they were sheeted over?

Edited April 10, 2013 by BRealistic

[Clive Mortimore]

I see it, Brian, and have used Google maps to get a closer view. I've also discovered you can buy kits of Sand Houses 'with chimney attached'... not that I'll be doing that, but now I have an idea of what a small one would look like, if I decide to do something freelance. I presume the chimney at Canton was taken down after it became redundant?

 

Oh, and thanks Signal Engineer for that observation. Can you recall whether or not they were sheeted over?

Hi BRealistic

 

Not all sand driers had chimneys. Most diesel depots did not use coal fired heaters to dry the sand. http://www.flickr.com/photos/merf29/6135833533/ The drier at frodingham is an example. It is the small building next to the Brush Type 2. Note the pipes running to the sand hoppers standing between the Type 1s. This is typical Eastern Region practice not common elsewhere.

[BRealistic]

Hi Clive

 

So diesels and electrics have sand boxes too... I'm learning new stuff every day! Me, I'm an old-timer addicted to WR steam circa 1960, although having said that, I've not been able to resist getting a Dapol Western!

 

Cheers for bringing me up to date!

[Fat Controller]

Sand's still used to help adhesion; these days, in the UK, it's either delivered in waterproof bags or in road tankers like those used to deliver cement and flour. At Eurotunnel, if it has to be used, then the driver must advise the signaller, as its presence on the rail-head can cause interference with the track-train signal for the TVM cab-signalling. Most diesel and electric locos had/have sand boxes- one curious exception were the Brush Type 4s, which were built without, IIRC.

Our near neighbours at SNCF still take their sand by rail- they have wagons nicknamed 'bouchons de Champagne' ('Champagne corks') which resemble a couple of tanks from a Prestwin stuck on whatever 4-wheel chassis is available.

Edited April 11, 2013 by Fat Controller

[BRealistic]

I used to work up against the line at Stoke in 1971. The Oakamoor wagons usually had two heaps IIRC.

I should have asked... can you recall what colour the sand was?

 

and the colour of loco sand, if anyone can recall seeing some back in the days of steam. Silver -grey, maybe... or yellow or golden???

[Bristol_Rich]

Foundry sand is silver/ grey. Used Foundry sand has larger black particles within the sand.

[Enterprisingwestern]

Some sand flows, the ones based around Stoke at least, used old cattle wagons as barriers to prevent the sand blowing into the guards van, which would suggest the loads weren't sheeted, maybe as dug out of the ground the sand was still wet and reasonably solid so as not to need sheeting?

 

Mike.

[dagrizz]

Having just put up four such wagons for sale in the classified section, I can confirm that two of them are 'Empty to Leighton Buzzard', one is 'Empty to Congleton' and one is 'Empty to Cholsey' 

 

Graham

[BRealistic]

Three great replies, guys! Thanks everso. I now know all I need to know to sort my 3 out... but it could be quite a challenge creating realistic-looking heaps of sand!

[Fat Controller]

Foundry sand is silver/ grey. Used Foundry sand has larger black particles within the sand.

Said black particles being the result of 'cooking' the molasses.. We must have had some means of cleaning the sand at Landore, as there were only one or two tank loads delivered every week.

The cattle vans at Stoke lasted until 1976/7; they were replaced by BR standard (as per Wrenn)Banana vans, and then by ex-Ford vac-fitted Palvans. The vans were only used as far as Cockshute. The sand used to get everywhere; it not only blew off the top, but trickled out of any gaps in hopper doors. You could tell which roads the wagons used at Cockshute by the sand covering the sleepeers.

I have a recollection that the glass-making sand was washed in acid to dissolve any ferruginous contamination; not sure that they bothered with this for foundry sand.

For the loads, you might be able to use some off-cuts of that aluminium-faced polyurethane insulation board; it's got a very close structure, and can be easily shaped (Surform for the general shape, then glass-paper and wet-and-dry

[BRealistic]

Interesting 'snippits' there, Brian. The sand getting everywhere... covering the sleepers, and the idea of using that insulation board for the loads. I'll be needing some of that to 'insulate' my metal up'n'over garage door so I'll more than likely give it a try.

[Fat Controller]

As usual, Mr Bartlett's come up trumps with shots of some of the ex-Banana barriers, showing how the sand got everywhere:-

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brbanana/h28510169#h28510169

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brbanana/h31785181#h31785181

[br2975]

Here is a photo of a sand wagon at Laira, dated 1967 - note the return to Margam brand.

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http://www.flickr.com/photos/glevumblues/6492952369/in/set-72157623160462696/

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And a photo of the sand house road at Canton.

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http://www.flickr.com/photos/mark-walker/8053139196/

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Brian

[BRealistic]

Cheers Brian, and thanks yet again for your help. I especially like the Laira one, with exactly the right wagon and it's loco sand as well! Never heard of Margam so will do a google to find out more. Must find out whether I can get some 'return to' transfers! There are none on the 3 wagons I've got.

[Fat Controller]

Cheers Brian, and thanks yet again for your help. I especially like the Laira one, with exactly the right wagon and it's loco sand as well! Never heard of Margam so will do a google to find out more. Must find out whether I can get some 'return to' transfers! There are none on the 3 wagons I've got.

Margam was one of the big 'Modernisation Plan' yards, built during the early 1960s to deal with all the traffic from the South-West of Wales. One curious feature is that it was built on the site of the medieval town of Kenfig, which had been buried under drifting sand- my 1960 plan of the yard shows a pair of tracks labelled 'sand sidings', suggesting the place actually despatched sand, rather than receiving it. There's still a small yard at Margam, to the west of the original one, a pale shadow at 18 roads against 50+.

You'll find 'return to' or 'empty to' transfers in either the Modelmasters or Cambridge Custom Transfers ranges, as part of larger sets for particular sites. In later years, small yellow discs, marked 'Circuit', and with an arrow pointing to a plate on the solebar, were used- I got some of these from Modelmaster.

The other Welsh Brian

[ikcdab]

Thought I might make up some of these over the Christmas/new year dead days. I have cut the sides out of plasticard and I have some 9ft wagon chassis in stock.

 

My question, what was the number series of the wagons before transfer to departmental use?

[The Johnster]

B764476 is the number on my Bachmann unfitted 'Return to Conlgeton' wagon, which I will (when my round tuit arrives) convert to a Margam example.