Berrington and Eye GWR/LNWR Joint Line 1912 - Layout

[Brassey]

23 hours ago, Mikkel said:

Can I ask how you did the PBV lining? I'm trying to learn from people's experiences.

 

I have generally followed Ian Rathbone's technique illustrated in both his book and video.  Mike Trice has posted a few videos on Youtube showing coach lining too. 

 

 

The gold/yellow lining on GWR and LNWR pre-group coaches goes on the molding quadrant not the panel.  The Crimson Lake lining above on the PBV does not have black on the molding so is quite unforgiving whereas the GWR choc/cream and LNWR have the molding lined too which helps.

 

I use a bow/ruling pen with gloss paint onto a gloss painted surface.  Gloss paint is easier to clean off when you make a mistkae whereas with matt the lining sinks in and is harder to wipe off.

 

I have pens from Haff and also more recently Kern.  These can draw fine lines.  However I think the consistency of the paint is key.  It needs to be quite thick.  I have used Humbrol 7 buff which is what Mike Trice uses and was also advocated by Coachman ex of this Parish.  The current Humbrol is probably too thin and I think the line spreads once applied.  So I have acquired some PP Gorse Yellow which is what Ian Rathbone uses but am yet to try it.  For the black I use Humbrol gloss black.  All can be toned down after with varnish.

 

On LNWR coaches I must give credit to Jol Wilkinson's article in MRJ on lining coaches.  But I am trying to develop the same technique for both companies so have deviated from his.  I do have some PP LNWR lining buff but also use Humbrol 9.

 

Humbrol 9 is also used on GWR locos with some red added to create the orange lining.  I guess if you can't get Humbrol or Phoenix Precision paints then it is a matter of experimenting and a lot of trail and error.  I find gloss paint lines best for me but Jol uses matt.  But always onto a gloss surface.  All the paint I use is gloss enamel.  Jol and others use cellulose car paints for the base.  It has to be hard and allowed to dry.

 

For the curved lines it is necessary to use a ruling compass to follow the curve and it is this that has given me the worst lines as per the Duke.  I have recently acquired a Kern compass to replace the old school set I have used up to now but am yet to use it.  Good ruling pens are hard to come by and I have found, like Ian Rathbone, that the ones with the shorter blades are best.  I think Haff still have one for sale on their website which is where I got mine.  I got my Kern from a friend. Otherwise it's look out on auction sites.

 

Edited June 7, 2022 by Brassey

[Brassey]

I mentioned that the GWR Crimson Lake lining was on the quadrant so here's what it should look like:

 

 

This is not easy to achieve but you have to lie the pen down low to do it rather than how Mike Trice does it on LNER stock.  This is described by Ian Rathbone in his book and demonstrated in his DVD both of which are copyright.

 

Some modellers line the sides before the coach is assembled.  Others with the coach flat on the bench.  I find holding the coach in one hand whilst running the pen along the quadrant best for me.   You do all the vertical lines first on one side in one direction.  Then the other direction, then the horizontal lines.  I use a rule on the long horizontal bottom lines.  You try to fill the corners in as you go along.   Allow to dry fully before attempting the other side.

Edited June 7, 2022 by Brassey

[Brassey]

LNWR quadrant lining:

 

 

[MrWolf]

Always thought that the LNWR livery is impressive. I dread to think what it would cost to paint a whole fleet of coaches like that now.

[Regularity]

12 minutes ago, MrWolf said:

Always thought that the LNWR livery is impressive. I dread to think what it would cost to paint a whole fleet of coaches like that now.

They’d produce a vinyl, and stick it on.

[MrWolf]

15 minutes ago, Regularity said:

They’d produce a vinyl, and stick it on.

 

I know, they'd wrap the coach, which is why I said I dread to think what it would cost to paint a whole fleet of coaches like that now.

[Regularity]

13 minutes ago, MrWolf said:

 

I know, they'd wrap the coach, which is why I said I dread to think what it would cost to paint a whole fleet of coaches like that now.

Ah. I see. You were using the word “paint” to mean precisely that!

[MrWolf]

Exactomundo. Despite the impressive things that can be done with vynil wrap (and the awful things such as gold plating footballer's Lambos.) there's still something truly impressive about a hand lined piece of rolling stock.

[Regularity]

Aye. Would also need to stick on some mouldings!

[MrWolf]

And they would probably be moulded from expanded foam....🥱

[Brassey]

Herewith a couple of shots of Jeremy Suter's railmotor which show what can be achieved.

 

Interesting the two different shades from the same camera on the same day:

 

 

 

 

[Mikkel]

On 07/06/2022 at 08:39, Brassey said:

 

I have generally followed Ian Rathbone's technique illustrated in both his book and video.  Mike Trice has posted a few videos on Youtube showing coach lining too. 

 

 

The gold/yellow lining on GWR and LNWR pre-group coaches goes on the molding quadrant not the panel.  The Crimson Lake lining above on the PBV does not have black on the molding so is quite unforgiving whereas the GWR choc/cream and LNWR have the molding lined too which helps.

 

I use a bow/ruling pen with gloss paint onto a gloss painted surface.  Gloss paint is easier to clean off when you make a mistkae whereas with matt the lining sinks in and is harder to wipe off.

 

I have pens from Haff and also more recently Kern.  These can draw fine lines.  However I think the consistency of the paint is key.  It needs to be quite thick.  I have used Humbrol 7 buff which is what Mike Trice uses and was also advocated by Coachman ex of this Parish.  The current Humbrol is probably too thin and I think the line spreads once applied.  So I have acquired some PP Gorse Yellow which is what Ian Rathbone uses but am yet to try it.  For the black I use Humbrol gloss black.  All can be toned down after with varnish.

 

On LNWR coaches I must give credit to Jol Wilkinson's article in MRJ on lining coaches.  But I am trying to develop the same technique for both companies so have deviated from his.  I do have some PP LNWR lining buff but also use Humbrol 9.

 

Humbrol 9 is also used on GWR locos with some red added to create the orange lining.  I guess if you can't get Humbrol or Phoenix Precision paints then it is a matter of experimenting and a lot of trail and error.  I find gloss paint lines best for me but Jol uses matt.  But always onto a gloss surface.  All the paint I use is gloss enamel.  Jol and others use cellulose car paints for the base.  It has to be hard and allowed to dry.

 

For the curved lines it is necessary to use a ruling compass to follow the curve and it is this that has given me the worst lines as per the Duke.  I have recently acquired a Kern compass to replace the old school set I have used up to now but am yet to use it.  Good ruling pens are hard to come by and I have found, like Ian Rathbone, that the ones with the shorter blades are best.  I think Haff still have one for sale on their website which is where I got mine.  I got my Kern from a friend. Otherwise it's look out on auction sites.

 

 

I've now had a chance to watch Mike's videos, they do help to demystify the process, thanks for pointing to them and for sharing your tips.  As for the lining on the quadrant, at least it means that there is a little more margin to the lettering in the waist panels.

 

Good-looking railmotor, and what a difference with the lighting.

 

[Penlan]

On 07/06/2022 at 07:39, Brassey said:

  The current Humbrol is probably too thin and I think the line spreads once applied. 

The 'current' Humbrol I've managed to buy over the last 3 - 4 years is like treacle.
These have been from different suppliers too.
My tins of Humbrol that are at least 10 years old are far superior, though 'obviously' I've used up the popular colours, like black. 

[MrWolf]

I've noticed that with pretty much every kind of paint, model making, automotive, industrial and domestic.

They might seem thicker, but often don't cover properly.

It may be because of the removal of traditional ingredients that are considered toxic (but okay to blend in with allegedly greener fuels) that actually caused the paint to flow and self level.

[Brassey]

As per my posts last year, I intend to extend the layout in the Southern direction.  As a stickler for prototype fidelity, I now face a dilemma.   Looking at the OS map and Google Earth there is a fairly substantial pond in the area I intend to model.  Although less than an acre, it is bigger than the station complex and would take up a length of 575mm to model.  I also don't know what it looked like in 1912 when it was bordered by an orchard.  Do I include it or not?   

 

[Mikkel]

Is it the bit surrounded by trees? I can't remember what side it's to be viewed from. In itself 575 mms of flat surface seems a bit dull, but does allow you to have fun with some reeds etc. And if there were also trees around it back then they would provide an interesting bit of contrast to the neatness of the orchard - even if it was just 1 or 2 trees. 

 

An alternative is to not model it and just leave it as plain field until you find evidence of how it looked.

[Methuselah]

Go for it.... Looks like it's still there too. Chances are there were some willows around it, and those grow at a prodigious rate near water, so you can't go far wrong. It was probably there well before the railway.  Personally, I find some model ponds where attempts have been made top create ripples etc a bit wooden, since real waves and ripples are entirely animated. Using a sheet of glass works well, as it's level and really shiny, as real water always is.

 

[Brassey]

In Sept 2021 I announced that I intended to extend the layout and bought some 6mm ply; how time flies.  So after a lengthy hiatus, work is progressing, and stripped down the layout has been moved back to the living room where the initial baseboards where built.  The curved board for the North of the layout is built almost to completion.  Work on the scenic Southern extension has started.  These two boards will complete 180 degrees leaving another 180 to produce a roundy.  Hopefully it won't take as long as it's making quite a mess of the living room.  The large mirror helps to give a view of the other side of the layout.  All the curves are transitions but get down to 900mm which is a bit tight for P4 the minimum recommended radius being 1000mm.

 

[Brassey]

The full 360 degree roundy is now complete.  There’s room for a 4 foot traverser fiddleyard. A lot of track laying  now to follow. 
 

[Mikkel]

And a sofa in the middle so you can lean back and enjoy the clickety-clack 🙂

 

Do I understand correctly that only part of this will be fitted to the rest of the layout?

[Brassey]

9 hours ago, Mikkel said:

Do I understand correctly that only part of this will be fitted to the rest of the layout?

 

This is the whole of the layout now but it is not intended to stay in the current location!  3 of the original scdenic boards are included.  These are the black facia ones in the photo.  One board has been omitted which was a transition board to straighten the curve when there was a fiddleyard at each end.  I still have this board in case I want to revert.

 

A scenic board has been added at the Southern end (as discussed previoiusly) which will be on an embankment.  Another scenic board has been added at the Northern end to complete a sem-circle.  This is intended to be a diorama as I've always wanted to build a viaduct but there were none on the line so this is going to be a different location!  There are 2 plain boards at each end to complete the 360 degrees.  The main objective has been to produce a big enough fiddleyard area to form main line express trains.  The maximum before, as an end-to-end, was about a metre; not enough for a 12 carriage train!

[Brassey]

Well on with the scenic board at the southern (Hereford) end of the layout.  The layout gets progressively narrower and this board is down to 21cm where it butts up with the non-scenic/fiddleyard boards.  Not too sure I'll have room to add the pond as discussed earlier but the embankment will be a good scenic viewing point.  Track is all on a cant so is taking a while to work out and get right but now have finally laid the cork underlay ready for track laying:

 

[Mikkel]

Good to see progress. I spy some grass too!

 

[Brassey]

This image has been posted on my rolling stock thread and I am repeating it here as it provides a wealth of detail relevant for the layout development.  The date I have for the photo is 1932.

 

 

Firstly the railway boundary is marked by a somewhat unkempt hedge.  In pre-grouping days this would have been kept tidier.  I initially had a fence but now removed.  A lot of hedge to be built.  There was a gate in the hedge behind the dock leading into the adjacent field.

 

There is also a hedge on the platform dividing the passenger and goods areas.  I do not intend to model the corrugated hut in that area.  The yard crane is however on my to do list.

 

The land on the station side is higher than that on the other with a drop beyond the up platform.  The rather tall telegraph poles are also evident on this platform.

 

To the south beyond the station limits is a copse surrounding a pond.  I am not modelling this on the extended layout as the trees would obscure my view of the trains which kindof defeats the objective of extending the layout.  Also the baseboards narrow in this area so there is little room for it.  Instead I am building an embankment on that new board.  Photos of progress to follow.

[Brassey]

I realise that I have not posted an updated image of the layout so here it is, or as much as I could squeeze in one take.  All track is laid and working including the cassettes in the fiddleyard.  A LNWR train is waiting in the fiddleyard having tested the Coal Tanks' pulling power.

 

I've been weaving that embankment out of used cereal packets for ages.  Hope to finish it soon.

 

Stored below the layout can be seen the old end-to-end fiddleyards.