HSB Posted June 11, 2015 Author Share Posted June 11, 2015 I have been having further thoughts about the fiddleyard. I believe somebody suggested the possibility of having kick-back sidings some time ago but I can't find the post (it may have been on the GOG forum). Anyway, I have been looking at the practicality of putting the fiddle sidings in front of the mainline but under the scenery and fed by a sector plate. Trains approaching the tunnel would be viewed by looking down a wooded hillside to the cutting at the back. After drawing it out on Templot I think this would actually work quite well and would be simpler to operate than either cassettes or traversers ( and a lot easier to build than the latter!). 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddys-blues Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Hi Howard, I like that idea, it saves the faffing around of cassettes and eradicate possible disasters with the cassettes !!, but will you just reverse shunt your stock into the kick back sidings ? or move the loco from one end of the stock to the other end and vice versa on a return working ? Best regards Craig. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSB Posted June 11, 2015 Author Share Posted June 11, 2015 Hi Craig, I will be able to shunt a train into one siding, then put the loco into another. The coaches or wagons can then be simply pushed back onto the sector plate by hand before attaching a loco on the other end. I just have to make sure the sector plate is lined up to the right siding each time! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 (edited) I dare to suggest it might have been the third paragraph of post #135, so I think it is an excellent idea! Extending it to a sector plate seems to make it better still - I think this would be a very good solution. Maybe having a couple of tracks on the sector plate itself will be more operationally flexible. Edit - you can supply the sidings with power from the sector plate by using wiping contacts. Might avoid an "oops"! Watching with interest. Simon Edited June 11, 2015 by Simond Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSB Posted June 11, 2015 Author Share Posted June 11, 2015 Thanks, Simon, it was indeed your post I was thinking about. I think a second track on the sector table would probably just add unnecessary complication. As it will be just a home layout there is no great need for a speedy turn-around between trains and in real life such a branch would only have a few trains a day anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSB Posted June 12, 2015 Author Share Posted June 12, 2015 To further illustrate my proposed scenic treatment of the fiddleyard and approaches here is rather crude cutaway drawing (definitely not to scale!):- 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
railwayrod Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Nice work Howard. Don't forget to allow sufficient clearance under the scenery to be able to get your hands in comfortably. Rod Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jintyman Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Nice idea, I'll concur with Rod, to allow a way of access. Could you have a short retaining wall and a hinged section maybe???? Jinty Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 I disagree - at least a bit - the trick here is that these sidings are not a fiddle yard, they are hidden storage. This means that they don't need hand access (except to deal with "oops"), and they will potentially keep the stock dust free. Of course, if you don't have anywhere "to fiddle", the sets are going to have to run back into the scenic part of the layout in the same configuration as they came off. This may be an irritation, maybe not. My original suggestion was hidden sidings coupled with cassettes, which were Howard's original preference. The sector plate potentially offers some benefits over cassettes, but there are maybe some disadvantages too. I suggested a double track sector plate, but as Howard pointed out, it adds complexity. Having thought about it a bit more, I think the sector plate is more limiting than the cassettes, and so I'd tend to go for the cassettes, but add the hidden sidings too. Of course, sitting here, it's easy to pontificate... It's not my layout, money or time at stake!!! Hth Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSB Posted June 12, 2015 Author Share Posted June 12, 2015 (edited) I will need room to get my hand in - not to lift stock up but to push it out onto the sector table while reassembling trains. As I said before the drawing is NOT to scale (merely an illustration of the basic principal). It would probably be advantageous to add a couple more sidings to give more flexibility whilst shuffling trains. It should be possible to move the sector table between tracks fairly quickly to push stuff in and out of the sidings by hand. Only the buffers and couplers will need to be touched in the process. Edited June 12, 2015 by HSB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Train Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Excellent idea. If you flipped the plan vertically, it would give you much more clearance by the door and you could use the full width of the room.allowing a larger radius curve to go along the bottom wall of the room. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
railwayrod Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 while on paper flipping the plan vertically would be good. However there is a window along that wall which Howard wanted to keep free. Rod Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSB Posted June 13, 2015 Author Share Posted June 13, 2015 I have drawn umpteen different configurations but keep coming back to the current one as the best compromise for the space without having to put a scenic section in front of the window and allowing access without a duck-under. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSB Posted June 16, 2015 Author Share Posted June 16, 2015 I have been having a further play with the arrangement of tracks in the fiddleyard. I originally put the longer tracks for holding complete trains at the front but it would be better to have the shorter sidings which will be used for shuffling trains to be at the front where they would be most accessible. As the assembled trains will just need to be driven in and out of those longer tracks without normally needing to be handled they can go right at the back and as they won't be coupled or uncoupled they can be on a quite tight curve. I have also extended the scenic section slightly. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Logical! Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cklammer Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Smart!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
railwayrod Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 During our session on Ramchester this afternoon Howard and I got to talking about DB branch line coaches and we could not decide why and when some of the 4 wheelers were painted red. Can anyone fill us in on this point please. Rod Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cklammer Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 (edited) Okaaay .... short version and many links (all German - unfortunenately for you): For the DB in era III there were red "Donnerbüchsen" and there were VS145 which were surplus after compared to the available VT145. Both were mainly used with the V36. I have shown you earlier in this thread the images from bahnen-wuppertal.de The red "Donnerbüchsen" had their own heating since the V36 (being a former military shunter) had no means to generate the steam required by the ordinary green "Donnerbüchsen" for heating. http://www.db58.de/2009/04/22/v36-nach-st-peter-ording/ http://www.db58.de/2009/11/01/v-36-und-vt-72-9/ (no VS145 here - two V36 - one at each end of the train) http://www.db58.de/2011/08/17/wendezugbetrieb-mit-v-36-bd-wuppertal/ (you have seen that before) http://www.drehscheibe-online.de/foren/read.php?10,6660520,6665027 (mentioning VS145 with V80 amd we had VS145/V36 in Bremerhaven, too - didn't even know that) http://www.db58.de/2011/02/16/bw-plattling-v-20-aufhausen-kroehstorf/ (mentioning BR64 and red "Donnerbüchse" after the V20s (!!!) had been retired!) And then we have http://www.noetzel24.de/index.php?id=89&L=%271 and the V36 detail page http://www.noetzel24.de/index.php?id=90 and the BR64 detail page http://www.noetzel24.de/index.php?id=96#c995 Edit: no red "Umbauwagen" I know of ... everything else was green unless it was the fast trains (TEE, D-Zug, F-Zug) or "Silberlinge" Edit2: see P.S. Enough I assume .... Best Regards, Christian P.S.: Forum "Railways of Germany" http://germanrail.fr.yuku.com/directory#.VYnFM7xAv7Y German Railways Forum http://www.railroadforums.com/forum/showthread.php?7918-German-Railway-Forum&s=bbe0be47afcd72503a3433a3477f92ef RMWEB German Railways http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/forum/134-german-railways/ Edited June 23, 2015 by cklammer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSB Posted June 24, 2015 Author Share Posted June 24, 2015 Thanks for those links, Christian. The train formations are particularly interesting. Unfortunately I can't see any of the 4-wheel coaches with enclosed ends that MBW are planning to do and I'm still not clear when and where the red livery was used (the MBW coaches will be available in DB and DR green and DB red liveries). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cklammer Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Evening Howard, Unfortunately MBW's website is under maintenance and I am unable to find images of their coaches. That restricts my options somwhat. From other places I found hints that we are talking about Langenschwalbacher. Please confirm from http://www.donnerbuechse.eu/ and select "Langenschwalbacher". Could what you perceive(d) as red DB livery may have been the brown Prussian State Railways (KPEV) 3rd class livery? Just asking, mind you, absent any pictures ... Red Livery was used for coaches which could used with engines without steam heating facility like the V36. Regular coaches for secondary lines were green and the red one were rare in comparison. VS145 was a Steuerwagen (sorry don't know in English) for VT 137 and VT 60 as well as V36 post-war - it was NOT a coach. Sorry, homework not done today due to extenuating circumstances: "Honest, Guv, my gramp's dog ate the holiday essay just as I was finished!" Best Regards, Christian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 I hope my German is good enough here - I believe "steuerwagen" is a "driving trailer" - ie a non powered vehicle with a driver's desk from which the loco can be "remote controlled" HTH (and stand to be corrected!) Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSB Posted June 24, 2015 Author Share Posted June 24, 2015 (edited) There are drawings of the coaches in this report from Spur Null Magazin:- http://www.spurnull-magazin.de/neuheiten/lokomotiven/mbw-neuheiten-2015-zur-spielwarenmesse/ Edited June 24, 2015 by HSB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
0_gauge_novice Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Hi Howard, MBW is a very unreliable producer. I would also like a couple o coaches from their range for my Greek stuff but let's see of they will ever produce them. Cheers Andreas Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cklammer Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Okay ... the mists are lifting: it is the Bi33 and Ci33 that you'll be wanting then ... some links with images: Here (image #57) IG Höllentalbahn and a very informative but looong thread. The red ones were being used with DMUs and V36s as ordinary coaches with linkup cables and own (coal oven) heating. The red Steuerwagen were used in the same way as the red coaches just having an additional dmu drivers stand for controlling/driving the train. The cabling linkup was somewhat standardized. The green ones were just ordinary coaches. Best Regards, Christian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSB Posted June 25, 2015 Author Share Posted June 25, 2015 Thanks, Christian. Looks like It would be best to get the green version unless Lenz do a re-run of the V36 in the near future (ideally with the raised driving position!) As Andreas pointed out MBW have a habit of announcing proposed models then quietly dropping them later and they have only shown drawings so far - but we can live in hopes. Meanwhile - the new run of the Lenz Era 3 VT98 was due for release over six months ago! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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