John Oxlade Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 OK combined knowledge of RMWeb. I am researching captions for a collection of my late Father's photographs and I have come up against a problem (likely the first of many. I am trying to identify this EMU. Now it has been suggested it is a 4-SUB due to the profile, however, the gap between the driver's window and guard's van door is significantly larger than on most photos I have seen. So, is this some sub-class I haven't found another photo of yet, or is it something else? Your help would be appreciated: http://www.flickr.com/photos/86615534@N06/8664396834/ It was taken in 1963 on a service heading north out of Redhill. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 It is a post-war 2 HAL unit, also known as 'Tin' HALs. The driving motors had a larger van section than usual and seven passenger compartments. The Driving trailer composite had four first class and four second class compartments, a toilet compartment and a side corridor connecting the lot. They were largely used on Gatwick Airport services in the late '50s and early '60s because of their large luggage capacity, being attached or detached from through trains on the Brighton line. They did stray further in later years and were treated indiscriminately with pre-war HALs and BILs. The units were numbered from 2693 to 2699. Under TOPS they became part of class 402. One other thing to note that is a dead give away: the DMBS at the front in the photo has two guard's periscopes, one for each direction of travel. 4 SUBs only have one periscope per DMBS. There was one exception to this and that was unit 2700, which had the 2 HAL DTC attached to an ex-4 SUB DMBS, which didn't have the larger brake van but had the standard Bulleid SUB eight compartments and only one periscope for the first years of its life, although a second was added later. If it is of any interest, I have been working on an Ayjay Models 4mm scale resin kit for one of these. It is still not complete but has progressed a little further since I took the following photos. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Oxlade Posted May 24, 2013 Author Share Posted May 24, 2013 Excellent, thanks for that. Kind regards John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
slilley Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 About three photos back you have a picture labelled as a 4 SUB http://www.flickr.com/photos/86615534@N06/8663296813/in/photostream/ It looks like it is a 6PUL. Best wishes Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted June 4, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 4, 2013 About three photos back you have a picture labelled as a 4 SUB http://www.flickr.com/photos/86615534@N06/8663296813/in/photostream/ It looks like it is a 6PUL. Best wishes Simon I seem to have said so on the flickr page at the time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Oxlade Posted June 5, 2013 Author Share Posted June 5, 2013 You did and I have just now changed the filename to avoid confusion. My sister can only go on what was written on the slide mount by my Dad, so with all the images she's scanned, I think we can let her off one error. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted June 5, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 5, 2013 Not a criticism, John! People who post wrongly-captioned pics are a lot more helpful than those of us who post nothing! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
slilley Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 You did and I have just now changed the filename to avoid confusion. My sister can only go on what was written on the slide mount by my Dad, so with all the images she's scanned, I think we can let her off one error. No probs, I was just saying so together we ensure the information is as correct as possible. Team effort so to speak. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Oxlade Posted June 29, 2013 Author Share Posted June 29, 2013 I did think about starting a new thread, but thought I'd tack this on here. Can anyone identify these two units seeing as we can't make out the unit numbers? I think (amateur that I am), that it is likely a 2-BIL and a 2-HAL.... http://www.flickr.com/photos/86615534@N06/8664415972/in/set-72157633281123435 Many thanks, John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted June 29, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 29, 2013 The OP link shows 2Hal 2696 leading a Bognor - Littlehampton - Crawley - Redhill - Victoria service. The tin Hals were sometimes added between Gatwick and Victoria for additional passenger and luggage accommodation; sometimes only a 2 Bil would reach the Sussex coast. Of interest is that the down service over the same route used headcode 98. Whereas in most cases the same headcode applied in both directions on routes where a reversal took place "unidirectional" codes were used to avoid confusion. The same applied to all trains reversing at Eastbourne and the Reading - Tonbridge trains reversing at Redhill. The link above (post 9) shows a 2Hal leading what appears to be one of the 2Bil units (2069 or 2100) which had a Hal trailer after losing their own to accident damage. I can't make out the leading unit number but it also shows headcode 42 meaning it is working the same service as the OP train. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted June 29, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 29, 2013 About three photos back you have a picture labelled as a 4 SUB http://www.flickr.com/photos/86615534@N06/8663296813/in/photostream/ It looks like it is a 6PUL. Best wishes Simon Unit number 3013 on the front confirms it is a 6Pul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 2013 an EMU Odyssey, it's HAL not BIL, are you there John? LOL XF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Oxlade Posted June 30, 2013 Author Share Posted June 30, 2013 I am here now - 12hr time difference between UK and NZ :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horizontal Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 OK combined knowledge of RMWeb. I am researching captions for a collection of my late Father's photographs and I have come up against a problem (likely the first of many. I am trying to identify this EMU. Now it has been suggested it is a 4-SUB due to the profile, however, the gap between the driver's window and guard's van door is significantly larger than on most photos I have seen. So, is this some sub-class I haven't found another photo of yet, or is it something else? Your help would be appreciated: http://www.flickr.com/photos/86615534@N06/8664396834/ It was taken in 1963 on a service heading north out of Redhill. What you're looking at here, is one of the first dedicated 'Gatwick Express' Sets - Basically it's a 'Tin HAL' with one less compartment in the MBS whose space has been used to extend the luggage area to cope with amount of airline baggage that was expected to be carried between the airport and London Victoria - There was about a dozen of these built around 1951, ready for use when the airport was fully opened, and they were added to the end of the standard 'Tin HAL' orders - They normally formed the rear two coaches of a coast bound semi-fast service of 2-BILs (via Horsham as I recall). They were detached on the way down at Gatwick, where they stood and waited to be attached to the front of the next Up Semi-Fast working to Victoria - 'Hope this helps! :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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