Coal (and Volunteer) Supply Issues

[The Stationmaster]

Just out of interest, the SVR has assured everyone that they have perfectly adequate stocks of coal to continue their operations as advertised.

 

Hope that Tyseley manages to get its hands on some more stuff. Want to take a pretty lady on a romantic trip to Stratford via Steam Train this summer would be pretty miffed (not at Tyseley, I add) if I couldn't do it

Long time since I was involved with Tyseley but back then we were using Daw Mill for the 5XP and it was alright on 'Clun' as well.  So the closure of Daw Mill might explain Bob's views?

[Captain Kernow]

Long term national energy policy cannot be left to short-term politicians, "tree-huggers" or vested interests (renewables) to decide..........a future period of prolonged high-pressure very cold, winter weather, and the ever-hiked imported gas market holding a frigid-populus to ransom, will show the need for base-load reliable home sourced generating capacity.

I really cannot agree more with you, Debs.

 

I'm convinced that in a couple of winters time, or so, rotating power cuts will affect the whole country, due to short-sighted decisions by indecisive politicians over the last few years.

 

Whether such power cuts will lead to industry or domestic users being prioritised remains to be seen, but I can't see any politicians having to turn their lights out. Whether such (completely forseeable) power cuts will lead to the collapse of the government (in the way that the miners strike in 1973 did) remains to be seen (the cynic in me feels that some glib lie or other will be wheeled out by PR flunkies to deflect criticism), but in any sensible society, we should already be taking to the barricades over this!

[trisonic]

This is part of the problem everyone faces:  https://www.facebook.com/coalexportaction

 

Best, Pete.

[APOLLO]

This is part of the problem everyone faces:

 

 

Too true.

 

All those tree hugging global warming greenies should have their electricity and gas cut off, all trappings of modern life that are dependant on them removed - let em live like they preach

 

Brit15

[simon hudson]

Without out being Political and echoing Captain Kernow's post I can see a day when Joe public can't turn their TV's on to watch their favourite soap Oh they'll be at the barricades they will be demanding nuclear power stations they will demand the pits to reopen.Problem is there will be miners left with the relevant experience..

[Bon Accord]

Problem is there will be miners left with the relevant experience..

 

Of course there will. There are tens of thousands of miners in Poland, Russian and China with experience!

[MinerChris]

Anyone volunteering to go down the Pits?

 

Who Moi??

 

TBH, I was surprised that the coal from Daw Mill actually went to run steam trains. I thought it was all shipped off to Ratcliffe as it was too low quality.

 

I agree with the general comment's that there are a lot of other reason's why I don't think another shaft will be sunk in the UK anytime soon, most of which are political and NIMBY hurdle's rather than a "technical challenge," or lack of reserves which is an real shame.

[jjb1970]

Funnily enough I think our problem is a combination of short termism and long termism that has the odd consequence of creating a mess. The dash for gas is short termism, cheap packaged power plants that are flexible, cheap to operate and actually both very clean and efficient as thermal plants go. At the same time there is what I think an unhealthy headlong rush to support anything renewable which whilst may be the correct policy in the long term when the technology is ready in practice is causing all sorts of problems for the grid, increasing electricity prices and hoovering up investment as companies fall over themselves to get the big subsidies on offer in the form of ROC's. I happen to think that in the long term renewable power is the correct way to go but without mass energy storage (or in other words, great big batteries, pump storage or whatever technology may be developed) the intermittency makes it non viable unless supported by either nuclear plants of thermal plants (oil, gas, coal). And it is one of those arguments that it doesn't matter how much you build, you could have 100GW of renewable capacity and the problem would still be there without energy storage to smooth out the peaks, troughs and off days. Hence for the foreseeable future we need reliable nukes or coal or gas or oil. Oil is not economically viable, nukes are probably at 20 years away (if ever)so that leaves coal and gas. Coal is abundant (but then again so is gas now), flexible and reliable so as an interim solution I think it should be part of the energy mix. I also think it is entirely correct to mandate flue gas de-sulphurisation and de-nitrification (not so happy about CCS) neither of which is especially expensive in power generation terms and which use old technologies that are reliable and effective. Battersea had FGD in the 1930's (although they messed that one up by just dumping the sludge into the Thames and making a worse problem than polluting the air). I'd much rather a lot of the subsidies for renewables was re-directed to energy storage research as to me that is an essential element of making renewables a viable long term energy solution but unfortunately although many recognise the issue the funding for it is derisory. I worked as a strategic development engineer in power generation looking at long term development projects and got fed up of a heady mix of short term shareholder pressure, inept political masters, a green lobby that is pretty clueless in many ways and consumers who think electricity should be free of charge resulting in a complete mess so walked out and went to work in another industry.

[griffgriff]

Well the last time we had a steam coal crisis didn't we resort to oil burning.  Now where are those conversion blue prints???

[Bon Accord]

Well the last time we had a steam coal crisis didn't we resort to oil burning.  Now where are those conversion blue prints???

 

 

We did indeed, but shortly after (and in some cases before) conversion was completed we were then hit by the 1973 oil crisis!

[Sam Moss]

In some ways the media really are making a mountain out of a medium sized mole hill. At Butterley we've had our coal merchant ring us to ask if we'd like to order rather than the other way around. We've stocked up just in case but it hasn't really been much of a problem trying to find it. Mind the stuff we have at the moment creates oodles of black smoke!

[ZiderHead]

Light news week + Preserved railway looking for publicity = Story

 

Story + Vid of steam engines = BBC website front page.

 

meh.

 

 

For those wanting to reopen UK pits, just prove the business case. Theres plenty of investors out there looking for decent yields.

[APOLLO]

For those wanting to reopen UK pits, just prove the business case. Theres plenty of investors out there looking for decent yields

 

 

And therein lies the problem.

 

 

Without out being Political and echoing Captain Kernow's post I can see a day when Joe public can't turn their TV's on to watch their favourite soap Oh they'll be at the barricades they will be demanding nuclear power stations they will demand the pits to reopen.Problem is there will be miners left with the relevant experience..

 

 

Correct.   When Joe Public starts to loose his / her bling (i.e.current lifestyle) THEN it will kick off. When / how I cannot say, other than it will more than likely come out of the blue, a strange event from an un-observed direction.

 

We are sleep walking towards the Abyss

 

Brit15

[QWILPEN]

to counter the report about availability  of coal read todays report.

 

slightly different point of view  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-22711416

[melmerby]

to counter the report about availability  of coal read todays report.

 

slightly different point of view  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-22711416

The American "dash for shale" has had a noticeable effect on both coal and oil prices, both of which are currently depressed (although from energy costs in the UK you wouldn't know it!)

Much of the coal produced today is either cheap labour (China etc.) or highly intensive (Australia) and in reality the UK mines struggle to produce at an economic figure.

It's hardly surprising Daw Mill closed after the fire as no doubt, it was not highly profitable and worth spending any more money on.

 

I see also that the Company that owned it, UK Coal is teetering on the brink of collapse.

 

Keith