Real coal

[Mr Brunel]

What's the best way to add real coal to locomotives and wagons, and what glue should I use?

[sulzer27jd]

I find that crushing the coal and then grading it with various sieves (ex kitchen preferably!) will give a range of sizes.

 

For steam locomotives some bigger pieces can be included as firemen often had to break these up before using them. For things like modern MGR's the finest grade can be used.

 

The basic shape can be created using various bits of scrap from different materials and I tend to use PVA poured into the wagon with the coal then added in excess. Once the glue starts to set the vehicle can be upturned and the excess coal reclaimed for further use.

 

In my experience there is nothing looks more like coal than the stuff itself.

 

good luck

[JZ]

Here is a few from my Somercombe blog. I got an ice-cream tub full of fine coal from a neighbour and graded it using a metal tea strainer, some 1mm mesh glued over an Oxford Diecast box and any larger lumps were ground in a cheap pestle and mortar from Tesco. Glued in place with neat PVA. Just brush it on and sprinkle.

Super D. I have used the 1mm stuff on this. Photo's show that the grade of coal supplied by the sixties could vary from very fine (slack) to some quite meaty chunks.

 

West Country. I used some larger lumps in this in the, perhaps mistaken, belief that passenger loco's would have better grade coal.

 

 

T9. Again the same sort of stuff as in the WC.

 

 

 

 

 

In the coal staithes I have used different grades to represent different types, anthracite, nuts and housecoal. I have used clay or the moldings supplied (Ratio & Will's) and just glued to that. The wagons have used either what comes with the Dapol kit or some I bought from Parkside at a show. Sprayed matt black to hide the base colour and provide a bit of extra bite for the PVA. The lorry has Peco Modelscene sacks with a little light brushing of pva on the tops and then the 1mm grade sprinkled on.

 

Finally I do have a few items of modern stock, mostly HHAs. For these I put in a plasticard layer with clay added for the 'mounds'.Then the finest grade sprinkled over. I did first weight them so the GLW is about 250gms each.

The spillage over the sides is deliberate.

[clarkea1]

I got hold of a couple of lumps and put them in the strongest polythene bag I could find, then put them on top of the wall outside and took a large hammer to them! You want to aim to end up with a bag full of coal of varying shapes and sizes, ranging from fine dust to lumps about 4mm or so in size (in 4mm scale). Here you can either go two ways - the easy or the more scientific method! Quite a few of the articles on coaling up usually recommend getting a range of sizes of strainers and "screening" your coal into different sizes. Alternatively you can do what I do and just pick out appropriate-looking lumps with tweezers (for the bigger bits) and a small spoon for the dust.

 

Now, to add coal to locos I'd really recommend finding a photo of your chosen prototype to see what sort of lumps are appropriate - you'll probably find shunting locos had far fewer big lumps of coal in their bunkers. You need to provide an appropriate based for the coal - the huge moulded heaps on most tenders and bunkers are rarely appropriate. In the Bachmann 3F I recently worked on, the coal in the bunker was cast as part of a metal weight, so I filed this off flat to a level a few millimetres below the bunker top, and painted the surface black. I then applied a thin coat of PVA to the surface, and applied my coal. Once you have the main coal in place it's worth sprinkling some of the finest dust over it to ensure good coverage.

 

For wagons, you'll again need to provide a suitable base. I've seen a range of methods used. Commonly, people make up a base from styrene sheet (a flat piece the shape of the inside of the wagon, with styrene "legs" to support it off the wagon floor at an appropriate level). Modelling clay can then be used to build up the heap, and the whole lot painted black and coal added with PVA. Again, look at photos - you'll find a wide range of coal sizes from big lumps to fine coal (usually destined for power stations where its usually pulverised prior to burning anyway). I've also seen people cut sections of foam pipe lagging to form the base (which can be had in black "off the shelf").

 

Have a look in Geoff Kent's 4mm wagon books or John Hayes' 4mm Coal Wagon book (all Wild Swan) for pics and more info.

 

Hope this is of some use - the hardest bit I found was getting hold of some coal - and I live in the valleys of South Wales of all places!

 

Alastair

[cromptonnut]

I've just used diluted PVA (like you would for ballasting) flooding the area, then using a cotton wool bud or bit of tissue in the corner to 'soak up' any excess, then a sprinkle of fine dust on top of it and leave it to dry.

 

Additionally, a light drybrushing of a gloss black paint in one direction only across the top of the coal (once glue has dried etc) does add a 'shine' to it very reminiscent of the real stuff, which is usually somewhat dulled if you use too much glue to stick the coal down.

[Il Grifone]

Nothing looks like coal more than the real thing! and it is one of the few substances that scales down as you break it up.

 

For fixing I have used varnish or the liquid paper glue from stationers. This used to be gum arabic but is probably some nasty synthetic stuff now. Being water soluble it enables easy removal. In the past I have used it loose, but derailments tended to be messy. (I know you shouldn't have derailments!).

[JZ]

In the past I have used it loose, but derailments tended to be messy. (I know you shouldn't have derailments!).

 

Yes, but they would have looked realistic.

[James]

Nothing looks like coal more than the real thing!

 

True-ish...

 

But left untreated it can look hideously shiny! An easy fix for this is once everything is dry coat it liberally with black weathering powders to take off the shine and add a dirty look to it.

 

Alternatively spray it once it's in place with Humbrol Metalcote Gunmetal and leave to dry. Once dry use one of those stiff cheap 'artists' brushes and brush over the coal. This will catch bits and lend a realisitc sheen to it. Finally treat with weathering powder. Best of both worlds; the structure and shape of real coal pieces and a lovely realistic appearance.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

... I used some larger lumps in this in the, perhaps mistaken, belief that passenger loco's would have better grade coal. ...

That was generally the aim of the loco running staff, insofar as they had suitable supplies of fuel, to match the grade to the duty. But much too often it all went horribly wrong, and some poor fireman was trying to maintain pressure against a high demand for steam, using slack of which 50% shot straight off his shovel in the firebox draught, through the tubes and out the chimney without igniting.

[totonlover]

Some helpful tips on there guys, it certainly educated me as I was having the same issues, thankx all

[barrymx5]

My problem is that after a few months I get a jaundiced look to my loads! I assumed it was the pva glue going off. But maybe it is sulphur in the real coal? Any thoughts folks. Not only wagon loads but now the odd loco tender looking a little sickly!

[66C]

Hi Barry

 

One of the things that should be done with real coal is to seal ALL the surfaces with PVA or varnish.  If not, the coal will slowly oxidise to ash.  The yellow/brown/grey colours that appear are the impurities in the coal.  The yellow is indeed sulphur.

 

Regards.

[Mad McCann]

My source of coal is the former coaler and ashpit site at Carlisle Kingmoor. I find the ashpit stuff seems to be the best - already half burnt by having been through the engine, it's generally less shiny. I set it in place using the floor polish formerly known as Klear and often give it a quick burst of matt acrylic varnish or powder and fixer to tone it down if needed.

 

Dave. 

[Darwinian]

Hi Barry

 

One of the things that should be done with real coal is to seal ALL the surfaces with PVA or varnish.  If not, the coal will slowly oxidise to ash.  The yellow/brown/grey colours that appear are the impurities in the coal.  The yellow is indeed sulphur.

 

Regards.

 

I suspect the type of coal has an impact here. I have 4mm scale tenders and wagons coaled with real coal and unsealed that have been sitting happily in my cupboards/loft/display case alternately for twenty odd years and no sign of chemical breakdown. The carbon in the coal will be relatively unreactive so it's most likely the impurities (and tar like components) that are causing the issues.

 

Regarding the shiny nature of real coal, again it depends on the source. A piece of real Welsh coal from a friend in the Valleys was very shiny, fairly soft and quite coarse grained. It did need toning down a bit to look realistic on a model. On the other hand the piece I'm using now came was picked up in the carpark / yard of a preserved railway and is much finer grained and harder with only a subtle shine that looks better without needing further treatment.

 

Regards.

[JZ]

I too have not had issues with discolouring. While my loco's have crushed house coal from an unknown source, my coal wagons all have genuine Somerset coal. This has been picked up while exploring the sites of old collieries. The earliest closure I have managed to find coal from is Timsbury, 1916.

[Peterpiper]

I'm suprised the coal degrades or dis-colours, somewhere I have coal loads I did 42 years ago, done on white card, no sealing or special work, dug it out after many years storage a few months back and looks as good as when I did it

[barrymx5]

I too have not had issues with discolouring. While my loco's have crushed house coal from an unknown source, my coal wagons all have genuine Somerset coal. This has been picked up while exploring the sites of old collieries. The earliest closure I have managed to find coal from is Timsbury, 1916.

Thanks folks. I am only a few miles from Radstock so will change my coal supplier!

[JZ]

Thanks folks. I am only a few miles from Radstock so will change my coal supplier!

Best sites I found for finding large lumps is Camerton and New Rock