nathan9117 Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 Well hello there everyone and welcome to my thread. I have a thread on Br Blue forum too but as many people I know have threads on both forums I though I would give it a go my self . This is a modern image layout named Westbury Works or Westbury but is not based on the real Westbury. The name popped into my head about 2 years ago now and I have always liked it. This layout's beginnings will be based on 2 modules that fit together to make a 8 feet long by 2 feet wide baseboard. Each module is of course 4 feet long by 2 feet wide and is made from 3 inch by 1 inch PSE timber. The layout tops are 9mm mdf and the track will be most likely pva glued down and pinned in few places for ease of change if ever needed in future such as replacement of damaged or worn track etc.I took a simple track plan from the famous layout Blackmill. This is what I came up with on AnyRail5 so far. As you can see it is almost representative of Blackmill but smaller. Blackmill is 50 feet long by 3 feet wide for the scenic section and has a rather long run around behind the operators leading to a fiddle yard and other bits and pieces. In reality when I lay tracks tomorrow I may not like how it looks so might change the direction and or orientation of some bits and pieces this is just an idea. More pictures to follow as the framework and tops will be arriving today for me to drill and screw together. I decided to go with 18 mm by 70 mm timbers and 9mm mdf to take a neater approach to baseboards as I want this to look presentable. Thanks everyone and sorry for my crazy ramblings. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andypops Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Is this based on the Blue-Circle cement works? I seem to remember seeing a fantastic representation of the same place in MR about two years ago? I will dig the number out if you would like? I don't think it was called Blackmill... While it's a fantastic place to do some awesome weathering using talc, I would like to question your trackplan, just a little. Firstly, it looks too much to me. I'm a big believer in "less is more" - as I've built a few attempts in the past that end up being glorified fiddleyards, with no space left for including the non-railway scenery, people, vehicles etc which really give the layout context. Wiring it will also be an absolute pig, 7 points is about the limit of sanity on something this size. Also, if only 8 ft by 2 ft, do you really need to make it two boards? If you can avoid it, don't do it. I did it, and massively regret it now (poor trackwork over join, boards warped slightly). Secondly, where are you going to operate it from (front, back, side?), and are you happy that you (and any potential audience) will be able to see all of the activity in the sidings at the back right? It looks to me like you're going to have most of your (loading/unloading?) sidings out of sight from the front of the board. Thirdly, what stock and wagons do you plan to operate? Shunters or mainline diesels? What type of points will you be using? Are you going to have manual or electronic point control? DC or DCC? Finally, I think we need to know how do you envisage operating it? Is the exchange siding offscene (your fiddleyard?)? You have no way to run-round any train without going offscene to the FY, which IMHO is very undesirable. In addition, all of your moves will have to be propelling - and this can play havoc with reliable running with any light wagons you have. So you might need to modify your entire wagon fleet with heavy ballast to get decent running. Just a thought. If I have this right, typical operations at the moment would go something like this: A mainline loco arrives into the siding at the front, the shunter joins from offscene, and then (by shuttling backwards & forwards on and off-scene - not so good) delivers wagons to the respective sidings? Once the siding is empty, the ML loco can escape to the FY, the shunter can assemble the outboud train in the long front siding and disappear off to the FY, the ML loco can arrive and the consist can depart? In this case, what are the short headshunts in the first siding needed for?? If anything, they would be far more useful at the end close to the FY, where the shunter can sit idling until the train arrives for it to deal with. And if the shunter is constantly shuttling back and forth from offscene with wagons, why not do away with the front siding, and just have a pure shunting layout? I hope this helps you, or at least gives some food for thought! Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andypops Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Also, sorry to double-post but have you ordered the timber yet? I would strongly advise against MDF, especially if making two boards. MDF is easily distorted by water in the air, and more cuts = more surface area. People have and do continue to use it, but if you're thinking of exhibiting the layout in the future it might not be your best bet. Ply, although slightly heavier and more expensive, is much stronger and better long-term. If you have already ordered it, consider sealing any cuts you make using PVA or a specific sealant for MDF. the track will be most likely pva glued down and pinned in few places for ease of change if ever needed in future such as replacement of damaged or worn track etc My final recomendation, don't lay ANY track until you're completely SURE about it. Track - especially pointwork - is expensive, and any mistakes you make can be really very costly. You need to be happy with the aesthetics of the layout as well as understanding how you'll wire and then actually operate it all...before laying a single piece of track. Bear in mind also, that the track should be ballasted to make it more realistic, and this will mean that any changes you want to make later are next-to-impossible. So, you must be SURE you're happy with it before you take the plunge! Let us know how you get on, Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathan9117 Posted June 21, 2013 Author Share Posted June 21, 2013 Also, sorry to double-post but have you ordered the timber yet? I would strongly advise against MDF, especially if making two boards. MDF is easily distorted by water in the air, and more cuts = more surface area. People have and do continue to use it, but if you're thinking of exhibiting the layout in the future it might not be your best bet. Ply, although slightly heavier and more expensive, is much stronger and better long-term. If you have already ordered it, consider sealing any cuts you make using PVA or a specific sealant for MDF. My final recomendation, don't lay ANY track until you're completely SURE about it. Track - especially pointwork - is expensive, and any mistakes you make can be really very costly. You need to be happy with the aesthetics of the layout as well as understanding how you'll wire and then actually operate it all...before laying a single piece of track. Bear in mind also, that the track should be ballasted to make it more realistic, and this will mean that any changes you want to make later are next-to-impossible. So, you must be SURE you're happy with it before you take the plunge! Let us know how you get on, Andy Hi there thanks very much for your replies to tell you the truth your reply helped me in thinking about it alot. I should have been a bit more clear about the front end of the layout where it looks to be headshunts sorry the track at the bottom right going to the edge of the board goes to a fiddle yard that will contain ready made consists such as engineers train and random trains that just pass through the scene for interest. Also i should have been more clear and let you know that the layout will have the mainlines at each side joined using a run around. My faults here but your posts have actualy helped me clear some things up for my self ! Cheers . Okay so next this layout is not the blue circle cement works or not that i know of it is a smaller version of a layout i saw called Blackmill . When you say less is more your not wrong at all ! tomorrow when i dry fit the tracks as a test to see how it looks i will most likely fiddle with it and move it about till it looks nicely spaced. I want space for scenery as well as track so as you say it may be too much i may remove some trackwork if it looks crowded on the boards in person thanks for the pointer. Unfortunately the boards need to be in 2 halves due to where they will be moved and or transported. I am currently working on my shed but it is only 5 feet by 6 feet so at one side I am going to build a rack or some type of brackets on the wall to stack the sections for storage until the loft space is done out. The shed has upvc windows to seal the outdoors out and damp proofing will be fitted to prevent any un wanted moisture. Operation will be from the back and I will run multiple trains from passenger DMU and HST to freight and a little bit of shunting at the front. As for MDF unfortanatly i have ordered it but on the plus side they did ask me where i am going to use it and also advised I should seal it from water etc so once the frames are together before I screw the tops down I will coat all the open edges with pva and maybe the top and bottom. Thanks for your questions they help me alot in thinking should i realy do this or that etc would it just be easier to do this instead of this or vice versa . Also here is the original plan of the model railway Blackmill. This layout is viewed from the top side on this picture that is the reason why my track plan is backwards because I was working it out as if I was looking at it in exhibition form. Thanks very much I am glad to have your questions help me out feel free to ask anything you feel you need cheers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathan9117 Posted June 21, 2013 Author Share Posted June 21, 2013 Okay so as you can see here I have modified the track plan a little. The mainlines will be joined up using a out of sight run around loop. The tracks in the station that say to 3 track fiddle will go to a traverser fiddle yard containing storage for 2 or 3 trains or maybe more if I have spare track or space . From the left hand side of the layout the 2 simple tracks can now go around the run around loop and about half way round there will be a set of points from each side one left one right so that the trains can enter and exit the traverser from both sides thanks.More space for scenery now and I may also add some disused sidings at the bottom left or a small yard that exits to the left just for interest cheers. Any ideas welcome please. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathan9117 Posted June 21, 2013 Author Share Posted June 21, 2013 Been up since crack of dawn waiting for my wood how impatient oh wait its still not here lol. As soon as the wood is delivered it will be drilled and screwed with in about 15 minutes I will have the baseboards set up . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathan9117 Posted June 21, 2013 Author Share Posted June 21, 2013 As you can see the wood arrived got 2 4x2 pieces of mdf 9mm thick and then my battons gona drill and cut now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathan9117 Posted June 21, 2013 Author Share Posted June 21, 2013 Rightey ho got both boards built and screwed together next on the agenda is to make up some cheap A frames or work horse's to sit the layout on while I scenic it. Once I get some more money I will go to the timber shop again and buy some new timber to re make A frames Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andypops Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Rightey ho got both boards built and screwed together next on the agenda is to make up some cheap A frames or work horse's to sit the layout on while I scenic it. Once I get some more money I will go to the timber shop again and buy some new timber to re make A frames Do you have any plans for the meantime? One thing I really enjoy about this hobby is that although some things can be incredibly expensive - locos up to ~£100-£130, and then wagons costing £30 each!! - there are lots of things which can be done really cheaply, with just basic bits of kit. My advice is that if you're saving for something expensive, try to do the smaller jobs - like painting the backscene or weathering wagons - while waiting / saving. Even scratch- building or making little scenic things like pallets and sacks! What I'm saying, in a roundabout way, is that if you use the meantime to keep things ticking over in your mind, the more refinements you can make and the better your layout will turn out. All the best, Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathan9117 Posted June 22, 2013 Author Share Posted June 22, 2013 Do you have any plans for the meantime? One thing I really enjoy about this hobby is that although some things can be incredibly expensive - locos up to ~£100-£130, and then wagons costing £30 each!! - there are lots of things which can be done really cheaply, with just basic bits of kit. My advice is that if you're saving for something expensive, try to do the smaller jobs - like painting the backscene or weathering wagons - while waiting / saving. Even scratch- building or making little scenic things like pallets and sacks! What I'm saying, in a roundabout way, is that if you use the meantime to keep things ticking over in your mind, the more refinements you can make and the better your layout will turn out. All the best, Andy Hmm i never thought of it that way before your full of really good modeling experience all sorts of tips and ideas already ! Going to be a good thread i feel always to refer back to as well I have got loads of metcalf cardboard buildings i never built or ones i can put back to 2d and use as a back scene . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathan9117 Posted June 23, 2013 Author Share Posted June 23, 2013 Here is a poor poor panorama shot of the 8x2 layout surface. Excuse the fact it looks wonky i couldnt get far enough back to take a single shot so had to bodge it using panorama mode on my phone.Anyway here it is the 2 modules together creating 8 feet by 2 feet of pure modeling space now just to arrange the tracks see how i like it then get to work . Plenty of pictures to come today I hope you all like it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ess1uk Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 Interesting ideas. I like layouts with lots of shunting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathan9117 Posted June 23, 2013 Author Share Posted June 23, 2013 Interesting ideas. I like layouts with lots of shunting. Cheers i sure hope it turns out interesting. I am slightly modifying the track plan above though i want a nice modern station as well as shunting so this set of boards may end up getting used for the tmd and another 2 built for the station Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathan9117 Posted June 24, 2013 Author Share Posted June 24, 2013 Alright im stuck I need a hand if anyone can help me please. Yesterday night i layed the track plans out and pinned it down using drawing pins from the noticeboard just to see how it looks and i didnt like the look of it i though one side looked too empty and the other too crowded.Can anyone point me in the direction of very good modern image track plans to fit anything of 8x2 or bigger aslong as it is 2 feet wide I can cut and 8 foot section out of it. I am looking for a decent station as well as something else to occupy the scene I dont want it to be over crowded but i do want something in the space unlike the above plan where everything is on the right hand board and the left board is just the 2 lines. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdw7300 Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 Hi Nathan. I asked for advice on a similar size/era layout. Progress is glacial, in fact going backwards, I have decided to paint the garage before building my layout! A few iterations of my layout are on here: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/71766-advice-comments-wanted-on-oo-10-x-2-layout/ Good luck Sam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathan9117 Posted June 24, 2013 Author Share Posted June 24, 2013 Hi Nathan. I asked for advice on a similar size/era layout. Progress is glacial, in fact going backwards, I have decided to paint the garage before building my layout! A few iterations of my layout are on here: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/71766-advice-comments-wanted-on-oo-10-x-2-layout/ Good luck Sam Hmm nice cheers just looked over the plans looks interseting for a lot of shunting might see if i can take some sidings from your plans and mix them with a station to get some stuff in the space . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathan9117 Posted June 25, 2013 Author Share Posted June 25, 2013 Right got a small idea in mind for what i want to do now Had a think about it for a day or so and im thinking a nice station along the layout somewhere, a cement works thanks for the idea Andy ! and also a small shunting area for shunting as i like shunting so i am going to see what i can fit in 8x2. Plans soon and im laying out track free hand on the baords to see how it looks in reality. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathan9117 Posted June 25, 2013 Author Share Posted June 25, 2013 Bit of recycling this morning 5 am and im sat hot gluing an old peco engine shed together to be re sprayed into a small factory this will have a platform infont of it for loading and unloading wagons etc.i will get the card kit out tomorrow well at like 11am today and glue it together making a platform ready for the factory to sit on . Pics in the morning i need sleep im a zombie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathan9117 Posted June 25, 2013 Author Share Posted June 25, 2013 Please excuse the poor image quality i couldnt hold my ipod still enough to capture a decent picture after like 20 attempts. The reason i used the ipod is because the model is up on top of my cupboard near the boiler where the heat is so that the pva drys.Anyway while i am mocking ideas up and playing about i have been making some bits and bats for the layout this is going to be a small diorama i cut up an old metcalf kit into my own custom low relief building's and stuck it to a card base i made from white card. It will have some more of the path layed down and also scenic items added to make it look nice . My thoughs are either place it at the back of the layout as the backscene or use it at one side of the layout as a town overbridge where the trains enter and exit the scenic boards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathan9117 Posted June 26, 2013 Author Share Posted June 26, 2013 Just found a track plan on rm web and whipped up my own version of it so i say at 1.47 am in the morning uk time im now sat fixing my double slip kind of .Mainline at the back seprate to the yard but for trains to pass across the scene . There will be more boards made up in time to fit on each side of the layout for a station side etc but for now i want my yard so i can shunt while i search the attic for my platforms and also save up for the new boards and point work. Cheers pic of trackwork in the morning. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ess1uk Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 nice track plan, i'm still strugling with mine Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathan9117 Posted June 26, 2013 Author Share Posted June 26, 2013 nice track plan, i'm still strugling with mine What type of plan are you after ? I have loads and loads of ideas and plans but none that suited me lol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattWallace Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 Just found a track plan on rm web and whipped up my own version of it so i say at 1.47 am in the morning uk time im now sat fixing my double slip kind of . Mainline at the back seprate to the yard but for trains to pass across the scene . There will be more boards made up in time to fit on each side of the layout for a station side etc but for now i want my yard so i can shunt while i search the attic for my platforms and also save up for the new boards and point work. Cheers pic of trackwork in the morning. I'm assuming that the red peice of flexi-track is because you've stretched it too far, not because the angles are too much to cope with? One of the things I found useful when I moved from AnyRail to XTrackCad (Not a decision I took lightly!) was that flexi-track in XTrackCad is "infinite", it just keeps extending as far as you need it and angles are flagged up in bright pink if they are too sharp making it easier to know which part of the layout is not going to work. If it is just red becuase the track is longer than AnyRail will let you, then it looks like that's a great shunting layout to play with! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdw7300 Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 Matt - yes, the red track in Anyrail just means it's longer than a piece of Peco SL-100. Nathan - liking the look of this layout - plenty of shunting potential. One obervation if I may, the headshut top left look only about 18" long so you would only be able to get a loco and a couple of short wagons into the top sidings in one go. Moving the curvred point and the attached lefthand point closer to the double slip would give you a slightly longer headshut (but risks bunching the track up a bit....) All the best Sam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathan9117 Posted June 27, 2013 Author Share Posted June 27, 2013 Matt - yes, the red track in Anyrail just means it's longer than a piece of Peco SL-100. Nathan - liking the look of this layout - plenty of shunting potential. One obervation if I may, the headshut top left look only about 18" long so you would only be able to get a loco and a couple of short wagons into the top sidings in one go. Moving the curvred point and the attached lefthand point closer to the double slip would give you a slightly longer headshut (but risks bunching the track up a bit....) All the best Sam Hmm interesting that is something I thought of my self my idea was to have a loco be able to come in on the longest track at the bottom entering the scene from the right hand side the bottom of the layout. On the picture where the longest length of track is that would be the back of the layout in reality where the operator would stand and the scenic view from the front. But what i though was another board to the right hand side with a small curved station mainline at the back of the board and the mainlines can continue to pass the back of this shunting yard, from the station board a set of points and double slip will give access from both mainlines into 1 single road track to join the longest track where the headshunts are so a train can come in park up and switch off. A shunter will then come behind the loco pulling some wagons off and into the sidings shortening the load by maybe 1/4 and the headshunts are mainly only so the shunter or loco can get to each side of the wagons to get a new rake and set off backwards and go to the opposite mainline to what it came in on . Also i think i might stick a loading facility on one of the sidings or maybe on a siding on the station board with a cement silo to fill the wagons so i can shunt some cement wagons down a siding to be filled up. There wont be many if at all any locos actually going in the sidings just wagons and the shunter as a wagon sorting exchange area so that some wagons can be delivered and sorted for one train to take and the arrived train can take another load of wagons elsewhere. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.