For those interested in old cars.

[PhilJ W]

When I lived in Burnham-on-Crouch in the eighties there were a lot of elderly residents a few of whom had obtained their driving licence before the driving test became compulsory. They often came before the magistrates for minor traffic offences and the magistrates often required them to take a test, which the majority were unable to pass.

[Dunsignalling]

1 minute ago, PhilJ W said:

When I lived in Burnham-on-Crouch in the eighties there were a lot of elderly residents a few of whom had obtained their driving licence before the driving test became compulsory. They often came before the magistrates for minor traffic offences and the magistrates often required them to take a test, which the majority were unable to pass.

A widespread precaution in this neck of the woods, too but given that compulsory testing applied to anyone who started driving after 31st December 1933, there can't be any of those left on the road by now....

 

John

[PhilJ W]

Just now, Dunsignalling said:

A widespread precaution in this neck of the woods, too but given that compulsory testing applied to anyone who started driving after 31st December 1933, there can't be any of those left on the road by now....

 

John

Agree, that was forty years ago. My dad was one of the first to have to take the test and if he was still alive he'd be 102 now. There are still a very few drivers about who have never taken a test as driving tests were suspended during WW2, they would be in their 90's now.

[Nick C]

1 hour ago, Dunsignalling said:

I tend to agree that the proportion of bad/incompetent drivers probably hasn't changed much over the decades.

There certainly seemed to be an increase of them during the lockdowns though - my presumption was that there's probably a large overlap between the sets of "people who don't care about lockdown rules" and "people who don't care about driving rules"

[spamcan61]

20 hours ago, MrWolf said:

It's strange how we don't notice the once commonplace cars until they're almost all gone. 

I was thinking that the other day, I still think of the Vectra B and Omega B as 'newish' cars but they're both 20+ years old ish and rare sights round my way now. A neighbour still has a tidy L plate Peugeot 405 estate which is another rarity now.

[Dunsignalling]

13 minutes ago, Nick C said:

There certainly seemed to be an increase of them during the lockdowns though - my presumption was that there's probably a large overlap between the sets of "people who don't care about lockdown rules" and "people who don't care about driving rules"

Probably an impression created by the better drivers playing by the rules and staying home.....

 

During lockdown, I had a legitimate need for a 20-ish mile round trip once a week, though I confess to coming back "the pretty way" which stretched the distance a bit, a few times!

 

On some occasions it was a delight experienced on almost deserted roads, on others a near nightmare of having to evade idiots.

 

John

Edited November 26, 2021 by Dunsignalling

[MrWolf]

We had a similar experience during lockdown and found that the back roads were perfect for motorcycling. We were in a state of hypervigilance though for the nutters in ten year old Audi's with tinted windows who also realised that the roads were empty.

[MrWolf]

25 minutes ago, spamcan61 said:

I was thinking that the other day, I still think of the Vectra B and Omega B as 'newish' cars but they're both 20+ years old ish and rare sights round my way now. A neighbour still has a tidy L plate Peugeot 405 estate which is another rarity now.

 

There's a a very tidy Cavalier III in red around here, amazing that it has escaped being driven into the ground as a taxi after its days as a repmobile ended.

In comparison, I could throw a rock in any direction and put a ding in a Morris Minor, there's at least half a dozen around here.

[Fat Controller]

On 24/11/2021 at 18:17, russ p said:

I'm well into the restoration of my MG maestro EFi at the moment.  It came off the road exactly ten years ago with a cracked engine block . In 2013 I managed to pick up two brand new O series engines for an unbelievable £30 the pair. 

The job of changing the engine got put off due to lack of facilities and serious illness twice. But finally in the last couple of months I've got round to it.

I knew it needed rear arches and some other metalwork but thankfully nothing serious the floors are perfect and never been welded . I've picked up a decent drivers door. 

I can't believe how little is available for these cars and once done it will be very rare and one of the best around. 

I'm doing mechanical work I've got the heads off the new engines and building one up with all new oil seals including stem seals and belts etc.

Bodywork is been done by Boyers of Cromer who I've used for years and their work is outstanding 

The last picture is what is was like in 2011

 

 

Do you have a history for this one , Russ? It's got Carmarthenshire 'plates; makes me wonder if it used to belong to someone working in the Rover plant in Llanelli. They used to be able to purchase cars at an appreciable discount.

[Dunsignalling]

21 hours ago, MrWolf said:

 

It's strange how we don't notice the once commonplace cars until they're almost all gone. 

 

The "commonplace" models are just wallpaper until they start thinning out; it's only when they become unusual  that we start taking notice.

 

What is perhaps more noteworthy is how they are now much older when they begin to vanish. Whatever we think of the specifications of modern cars, from about 1990 onwards, most makes became much more durable, both structurally and mechanically. 

 

John

[MJI]

1 hour ago, spamcan61 said:

I was thinking that the other day, I still think of the Vectra B and Omega B as 'newish' cars but they're both 20+ years old ish and rare sights round my way now. A neighbour still has a tidy L plate Peugeot 405 estate which is another rarity now.

 

 

I used to run Omegas, had 4 over a lot of years.

 

My last one was written off by a low flying other car.

 

Cannot see any advantage of any newer car over one. When mine went there were still a few others locally, now down to one.

 

Never noticed Vectras but not seen one recently, but nothing GM Europe has been since since 2002

[spamcan61]

I had 3 Omegas and I'd still use one as a daily driver if I could find a nice one. Just pre Covid garage near work had a low spec 1996 estate for 1800 quid which was a bit rich for a fun car.

Edited November 26, 2021 by spamcan61

[MrWolf]

2 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

The "commonplace" models are just wallpaper until they start thinning out; it's only when they become unusual  that we start taking notice.

 

What is perhaps more noteworthy is how they are now much older when they begin to vanish. Whatever we think of the specifications of modern cars, from about 1990 onwards, most makes became much more durable, both structurally and mechanically. 

 

John

 

Definitely. They would last a whole lot longer if it wasn't for the tech. The scrapyards are full of cars that look perfectly okay, rather than the rust ravaged heaps of thirty years ago. The problem is the built in obsolescence. Engine management systems, assisted braking systems and emissions control components go pop and are either unobtainable or ridiculously expensive.

A real waste of materials and energy that cannot be recovered. I would rather see things that are repairable rather than recyclable. Rust was the biggest killer of postwar cars, something that is largely eradicated now, or rather can be. Engines may have been worn out at 75-100000 miles, but it was possible and economically viable to rebuild them many times.

 

[APOLLO]

I agree modern cars don't rust, they just either electrically or mechanically die these days, and it's usually the new tech in them that goes awol after a dozen or so years, sometimes a lot earlier.

 

Brit15

[Dunsignalling]

True, but as things seem to be developing, the powers-that-be will be praying for something sparky to kill my turbo-diesel long before it reaches the likely expiry of its mechanicals somewhere after the 300k mark.

 

Mind you, if the TV prog the other night was to be believed, were I to chop it in for a petrol hybrid, I'd just be swapping one set of nasty fallout compounds for another.... 

 

It's only got 53k on the clock at present, I only do about 7k a year nowadays, and I have no desire to part with it, so it'll almost certainly outlast me. That's going to be more environmentally friendly that passing it on to another owner who might do three times my annual mileage.

 

John

[Hobby]

1 hour ago, APOLLO said:

I agree modern cars don't rust, they just either electrically or mechanically die these days, and it's usually the new tech in them that goes awol after a dozen or so years, sometimes a lot earlier.

 

Really? Do you have the statistics to back up that claim? From what I have seen modern cars are pretty reliable and go big mileages with the correct servicing. Yes, when they go wrong it can cost big money, but compared with the stuff I drove around in in the 70's they are much more reliable and will get you home, unlike the old cars.

 

In both cases, however, it's how you look after them that's important, my Dad used to to do 50k a year in the 50s and 60s and I can never remember his cars ever breaking down, but they were serviced every 2.5/3k miles so it doesn't surprise me. Everything will break down if it isn't properly looked after, new school or old.

Edited November 26, 2021 by Hobby

[Northmoor]

29 minutes ago, Hobby said:

 

Really? Do you have the statistics to back up that claim? From what I have seen modern cars are pretty reliable and go big mileages with the correct servicing. Yes, when they go wrong it can cost big money, but compared with the stuff I drove around in in the 70's they are much more reliable and will get you home, unlike the old cars.

 

In both cases, however, it's how you look after them that's important, my Dad used to to do 50k a year in the 50s and 60s and I can never remember his cars ever breaking down, but they were serviced every 2.5/3k miles so it doesn't surprise me. Everything will break down if it isn't properly looked after, new school or old.

I have personal experience of a nine year old Focus on which two major electronic components failed that actually cost more to replace and repair than the car was worth.  That was after the engine had dropped a valve despite being serviced in accordance with the schedule (according to the records).  It was only because I intended to keep running the car for several more years that I paid out to do the repairs and not simply write it off.

Correct servicing is indeed, very important, but that has no influence whatsoever on electronic components like an ECU.

[Dunsignalling]

I can't comment on modern Fords because the last Ford I had wasn't modern, a Mk2 Fiesta that I got shot of in 1994. A horrible thing that put me off the marque for life!

 

After that I had a string of used Peugeots, all properly serviced with two (a 1990 205xs and a 2002 206 D-Turbo) being kept until they were over twelve years old without significant expenditure on non-service items. Both are still on the road AFAIK! The only electrical issues were a faulty rear lamp unit (the rain got in) and two ABS sensors, both on the 206.

 

The third, a 207SW, I just  didn't enjoy driving and it was chopped in for my current 2013 Skoda Yeti three years ago. Service items and tyres apart, the only expenditure on that has been a steering ball-joint for this year's MoT, and a new base for the radio aerial (rain got into that, too).

 

 

John

Edited November 26, 2021 by Dunsignalling

[duncan]

In the 2010s, I had a very nice Kia Ceed estate, after 9 years the alternator & exhaust both went.  The exhaust was only obtainable at the Kia garage (over £1k then), went to a boom-boom shop who built one a lot cheaper but the cost of the alternator killed it.

 

ps to keep on topic, I also drive a TR6

Edited November 26, 2021 by duncan

[russ p]

9 hours ago, Fat Controller said:

Do you have a history for this one , Russ? It's got Carmarthenshire 'plates; makes me wonder if it used to belong to someone working in the Rover plant in Llanelli. They used to be able to purchase cars at an appreciable discount.

 

I don't unfortunately.  I think it was new then stored for about 5 or 6 years which I think it may have suffered a frozen block which ended up with a cracked in 2011. Never known a O series have this normally. 

Can't remember where I got the information about it been off the road n the early days

Don't suppose you  have any information of fletchers of Swansea as I would love to get dealer stickers made

[Fat Controller]

37 minutes ago, russ p said:

 

I don't unfortunately.  I think it was new then stored for about 5 or 6 years which I think it may have suffered a frozen block which ended up with a cracked in 2011. Never known a O series have this normally. 

Can't remember where I got the information about it been off the road n the early days

Don't suppose you  have any information of fletchers of Swansea as I would love to get dealer stickers made

They would seem to have gone out of business, Russ. I couldn't find anything online with a current address.

[APOLLO]

14 hours ago, Hobby said:

 

Really? Do you have the statistics to back up that claim? From what I have seen modern cars are pretty reliable and go big mileages with the correct servicing. Yes, when they go wrong it can cost big money, but compared with the stuff I drove around in in the 70's they are much more reliable and will get you home, unlike the old cars.

 

In both cases, however, it's how you look after them that's important, my Dad used to to do 50k a year in the 50s and 60s and I can never remember his cars ever breaking down, but they were serviced every 2.5/3k miles so it doesn't surprise me. Everything will break down if it isn't properly looked after, new school or old.

 

I talk to my friendly local garage owner. It's getting worse every year (for him). The need for very expensive specialised tools and equipment for various makes etc.  The worst are ALL the German makes, most reliable are Toyota (Petrol) Honda (Petrol) & Hyundai.

 

What's the most reliable car I asked him, A Toyota Avensis petrol was his reply.

 

Servicing is important, but wont stop electrical control unit failures etc etc. Modern cars are over complicated these days.

 

And 1970's British Leyland, I have a 73 Rover P5B V8 in the garage, superb car, never let me down, simple tech and 'nowt goes wrong - but indeed change the oil & filter every year is a must.

 

Brit15

[alastairq]

For reliability, anecdotal [personal or otherwise] is all well & good, but shouldn't we really be looking at the bigger picture?

 

Taking time out to go through the likes of Honest John, or Autowotzit, or JDPowersurveys, to see exactly how many, and for what reason, manufacturers have had to deal with guarantee work, or the responses from owners who participate in the surveys?

 

Taking the broader view , however, does not mean individual instances which have resulted in the exact opposite finding cannot be discounted.

High mileages are one thing [and don't really present an accurate view, in y opinion]....since a car that has spent its life being thrashed up & down the motorway system might well be in better nick than the same car spending it's life on more mundane urban work.

[In the same view, as a retired minion of the professional world, I spare little thought for those drivers who claim a 'clean record' having driven half a million miles each year...when compared to someone like a bus driver, who hasn't covered  a fraction of that mileage, yet has spent the same amount of time threading through inner urban traffic conditions, only to turn around when they get to the other side, and dive back in again.. It's all about how much exposure to risk of collision both have undergone]

 

If I were to be guided by what I have read in the relibaility surveys,i wouldnt entertain anything coming out of the Land Rover factory.

Neither would I consider Renault [or anything French].....

{ I have poor experiences with the Peugeots I have had, better experiences with the  Renaults....and mixed experiences with anything coming from VW!

I have found the Japanese always seemed to make a reliable, if uninspiring [driving-wise] car.

Possibly same with other SE Asian makers?

Equally, Lada seemed to prove reliable as well.

 

When it comes to reliability, any maker is often in the hands of the makers of the ancillaries.

A duff alternator isn't down to the badge on the front...it's down to whoever made the alternator...

 

[My Daihatsu 4Trak has an engine which is known to be reliable and strong, with mileages before overhaul that rival those of Bristol cars.....Cannot say the same for everything else the engine is bolted to, however.]

 

I know of quite a few old hands who swear by Reliant Robin 3 wheelers, for reliability, usefulness, etc. 

But I suppose it will all come down to exactly what one exects from one's car? 

Transport?

Utility?

Work?

Looking cool in front of the neighbours?

Or, what?

  

 

[Rugd1022]

Just to add to the reliability thing - my Italian Alfa's Achillies heel is its German electrics!

 

Meanwhile, back in late '60s London....

 

 

[MJI]

17 hours ago, spamcan61 said:

I had 3 Omegas and I'd still use one as a daily driver if I could find a nice one. Just pre Covid garage near work had a low spec 1996 estate for 1800 quid which was a bit rich for a fun car.

My last one was a 2001 2.6 I retro fitted lpg to. I also ran with ported heads and lumpy cams.

 

Sports springs.

 

On one road it was 2mph faster than a 3.0

 

Ran it for over 8 years

 

I think it had only had 1 or 2 mots when I bought it.

 

Would have cost £3k to have repaired