For those interested in old cars.

[Dunsignalling]

3 minutes ago, alastairq said:

 Morgan Aero [ not sure naming it after a choccy bar? Would one buy  a Bugatti Whispa?], no windows behind drivers door, door opens wrong way, headlamps not inset & boss-eyed either.. Morgan always looked to me as if someone had smacked it hard in the radiator?

 

[YUp, i speak as a former Morgan owner......Well, someone had to buy it!]

The Bentley is what it should have looked like!

[jcredfer]

I always fancied a Morgan.....     until.

 

I went to a race meet {on a disused airfield, somewhere Devon, Somerset, Dorset???} with an anti-clockwise circuit, way back in the very late 60s, early 70s.  We were at the exit of a corner, where the perimeter track joined the runway, in an a hairpin.  There were a couple of Morgans charging around, doing really well, until they hit the exit to the corner.  Some of the runway top surface had become loose and long since left a roughened surface.  All the competitors had grip trouble there, but the Morgans clearly demonstrated that they had a rigid suspension and the only means of dealing with the uneven surface was via a violently twisting chassis, which was bereft of shock absorbers, which were part of the rigid bit.  How the drivers hung on to the road, was great entertainment as they worked to keep the cars on the track, but a good lesson in all that looks good may not be all it seems.   🙄

 

[Dunsignalling]

10 hours ago, jcredfer said:

I always fancied a Morgan.....     until.

 

I went to a race meet {on a disused airfield, somewhere Devon, Somerset, Dorset???} with an anti-clockwise circuit, way back in the very late 60s, early 70s.  We were at the exit of a corner, where the perimeter track joined the runway, in an a hairpin.  There were a couple of Morgans charging around, doing really well, until they hit the exit to the corner.  Some of the runway top surface had become loose and long since left a roughened surface.  All the competitors had grip trouble there, but the Morgans clearly demonstrated that they had a rigid suspension and the only means of dealing with the uneven surface was via a violently twisting chassis, which was bereft of shock absorbers, which were part of the rigid bit.  How the drivers hung on to the road, was great entertainment as they worked to keep the cars on the track, but a good lesson in all that looks good may not be all it seems.   🙄

 

I followed a gorgeous red Plus 8 along a "good in parts" East Devon road on Sunday. The driver was proceeding very gingerly at less than 30mph, so I presume something had broken going over one of the dodgy bits.

 

Being waved past such a motor in my humble (though not slow) Yeti was a new experience. Hope he got it home safely and the damage isn't too severe.

 

John

Edited May 17, 2022 by Dunsignalling
Day corrected

[Sidecar Racer]

 

Now this is a rare one .

 

 

[Nick C]

21 hours ago, doilum said:

The law has changed. I believe that all "historic" vehicles ( IE free road tax / no mot) can carry the old white on black plates.

 

17 hours ago, boxbrownie said:

Is that right, so even a 40 year old (I believe that’s the criteria now?) from the 1980s can use a B&W plate now?

 

Blimey I’d wish they’d make their minds up.

 

It's actually changed again! https://www.footmanjames.co.uk/blog/black-and-silver-number-plates-guidelines

 

Quote

The Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency explained that in 2015 that vehicles manufactured more than 40 years ago were eligible to display the traditional black and silver number plates.

However, coming into effect from the 1st January 2021, there has now been a change and going forward, any vehicle constructed after 1 January 1980 are now ineligible to display the black and silver number plate despite being recorded in the DVLA’s historic tax class. Those vehicles with a construction date prior to 1 January 1980 will continue to be able to legally display black and silver number plates to avoid any undue costs of replacement.

On top of this, from the 1 January 2021 it will no longer be permissible to fix a new number plate displaying a Euro symbol. Number plates already fixed to vehicles are unaffected. The DVLA will also be introducing a new British Standard for number plates produced from 1 September 2021 which will mean all current style number plates that are first fixed to a vehicle from that date must meet the technical requirements contained in that standard.

 

[alastairq]

On the topic of Morgans.....they didn't look like that due to any sense of fashion..they were very much of their time. Form followed function. Like the Lotus 7, or the Dellow.

In my view, after the mid 1980's, Morgans tended to acquire a cache as a 'fashion accessory' rather than as  a proper sports car.  {The interiors bore me out on that personal view]...

By 'proper sports car', I refer back to the arguments that raged in the popular motoring media about 'what' constituted a 'proper' sports car?

Public demand meant 'sports' cars became more like today's posh trainers......almost a 'fashion accessory'' rather than a car of minimalist pretentions , able to be entered into a variety of motor sporting events with little or no alteration, aside from preparation.

Morgans [prior to the 1980's, in my view]....fell into the 'proper' sports car category, since they started off with minimalism to begin with.   Aside from the mandatory need for a roll over bar for speed events, nothing really needed to be 'done' to them to assist performance or survivability. But they weren't suitable transport to carry one's nearest & dearest to the Ball.....Not without arriving  in a dishevelled state, at least.

For the family person, they offered 4 seater versions....with little to keep the wee one's inside the car at speed, it should be added.

 

Yet, the non-cognoscenti driving public thought a VW KArmann Ghia, or a Renault Caravelle, was a 'sports car'....[Or worse, a soft top Vauxhall Astra!!]

 

Today, fashionable folk pay out hundreds for  a fashionable pair of trainers, with a fashionable name [as cache]...yet , would  anyone with any pretentions at being somewhat 'serious' athletes actually go running or whatever, with such footwear? Or, would one go out and buy the 'proper kit?'

 

In the end, it isn't [or, wasn't] about speed capabilities, or comfort, or weather protection, or whatever. A 'proper' sports car didn't need to have the ability to reach 100mph.

For the truth is, in most forms of motorsport, ultimate speed isn't everything...or even, part of it.

What really mattered  was, how the car drove. 

Even today, most production cars have  driving and roadholding compromises to make them usable & sellable to the motoring public at large.

A 'proper' sports car lacked compromise in those departments. It lacked the now-expected degrees of comfort..[Wind-up windows? What was that all about???]

Morgan themselves addressed the differences in the model ranges [up[ to the mid 1950's, at least]...by having both 'roadsters' [sports cars] and 'tourers' [ drophead coupes] in the line up. The touring lineup had similar mechanics to the  sports line up, but came with more civilized interiors or body design....full height doors with proper windy-uppy windows, proper weatherproof hoods, etc....The 4/4 and Plus 4 models having cutaway doors[for elbows to stick out of] and hoods that offered about as much weather protection as an umbrella in a force nine gale.  The Plus 4 seats had 'inflatable' seat cushions..for those of tender nether regions.  

 

The Plus 8 wasn't the first V8 Morgan, either.

Before WW2, when Morgan were making the 4/4 series 1 [4 wheeler]...they got hold of a Ford V8...and fitted into the 4/4 . It went 'very well indeed', but couldn't be progressed with as Ford wouldn't supply the [US type] V8 engines...[Flathead V8's...but differed from the Pilot V8, a UK product]...

However, for his daughter, Morgan made a special [with what was left?]...which was  a drophead coupe, with the V8 engine, for her personal use.....

I have no idea where or if it survived....Apparently she had one or two 'experimental' Morgans....

 

   A '54 plus 4 drophead coupe....note higher door line, proper foldaway [or, put-uppable?] hood, posh wood dash tops, etc...Very different from the 'roadster types..

[boxbrownie]

54 minutes ago, Nick C said:

 

 

It's actually changed again! https://www.footmanjames.co.uk/blog/black-and-silver-number-plates-guidelines

 

 

As I said…..make your minds up chaps at DVLC 🤔
 

Thanks for the info.

[alastairq]

DVLA doesn't make the rules. They don't 'dictate' what a vehicle should, or should not, have. That would be like blaming the DWP for us not having enough tanks!

[boxbrownie]

20 minutes ago, alastairq said:

On the topic of Morgans.....they didn't look like that due to any sense of fashion..they were very much of their time. Form followed function. Like the Lotus 7, or the Dellow.

In my view, after the mid 1980's, Morgans tended to acquire a cache as a 'fashion accessory' rather than as  a proper sports car.  {The interiors bore me out on that personal view]...

By 'proper sports car', I refer back to the arguments that raged in the popular motoring media about 'what' constituted a 'proper' sports car?

Public demand meant 'sports' cars became more like today's posh trainers......almost a 'fashion accessory'' rather than a car of minimalist pretentions , able to be entered into a variety of motor sporting events with little or no alteration, aside from preparation.

Morgans [prior to the 1980's, in my view]....fell into the 'proper' sports car category, since they started off with minimalism to begin with.   Aside from the mandatory need for a roll over bar for speed events, nothing really needed to be 'done' to them to assist performance or survivability. But they weren't suitable transport to carry one's nearest & dearest to the Ball.....Not without arriving  in a dishevelled state, at least.

For the family person, they offered 4 seater versions....with little to keep the wee one's inside the car at speed, it should be added.

 

Yet, the non-cognoscenti driving public thought a VW KArmann Ghia, or a Renault Caravelle, was a 'sports car'....[Or worse, a soft top Vauxhall Astra!!]

 

Today, fashionable folk pay out hundreds for  a fashionable pair of trainers, with a fashionable name [as cache]...yet , would  anyone with any pretentions at being somewhat 'serious' athletes actually go running or whatever, with such footwear? Or, would one go out and buy the 'proper kit?'

 

In the end, it isn't [or, wasn't] about speed capabilities, or comfort, or weather protection, or whatever. A 'proper' sports car didn't need to have the ability to reach 100mph.

For the truth is, in most forms of motorsport, ultimate speed isn't everything...or even, part of it.

What really mattered  was, how the car drove. 

Even today, most production cars have  driving and roadholding compromises to make them usable & sellable to the motoring public at large.

A 'proper' sports car lacked compromise in those departments. It lacked the now-expected degrees of comfort..[Wind-up windows? What was that all about???]

Morgan themselves addressed the differences in the model ranges [up[ to the mid 1950's, at least]...by having both 'roadsters' [sports cars] and 'tourers' [ drophead coupes] in the line up. The touring lineup had similar mechanics to the  sports line up, but came with more civilized interiors or body design....full height doors with proper windy-uppy windows, proper weatherproof hoods, etc....The 4/4 and Plus 4 models having cutaway doors[for elbows to stick out of] and hoods that offered about as much weather protection as an umbrella in a force nine gale.  The Plus 4 seats had 'inflatable' seat cushions..for those of tender nether regions.  

 

The Plus 8 wasn't the first V8 Morgan, either.

Before WW2, when Morgan were making the 4/4 series 1 [4 wheeler]...they got hold of a Ford V8...and fitted into the 4/4 . It went 'very well indeed', but couldn't be progressed with as Ford wouldn't supply the [US type] V8 engines...[Flathead V8's...but differed from the Pilot V8, a UK product]...

However, for his daughter, Morgan made a special [with what was left?]...which was  a drophead coupe, with the V8 engine, for her personal use.....

I have no idea where or if it survived....Apparently she had one or two 'experimental' Morgans....

 

   A '54 plus 4 drophead coupe....note higher door line, proper foldaway [or, put-uppable?] hood, posh wood dash tops, etc...Very different from the 'roadster types..

Bet this chap had wished they had fitted ABS…..not that it would have helped much, must have been loading his pipe!

 

He walked away.

https://www.deadlinenews.co.uk/2019/07/02/1125501/

[boxbrownie]

1 minute ago, alastairq said:

DVLA doesn't make the rules. They don't 'dictate' what a vehicle should, or should not, have. That would be like blaming the DWP for us not having enough tanks!

I like to blame the DVLC…they are all at home working in bed with egg down their PJs at the moment…..lazy bu99ers. 🤣

[alastairq]

Oddly, teh Germans safety people found the Morgan to be surprisingly good with regards to passenger survivability....despite its ash body frame.

[boxbrownie]

10 minutes ago, alastairq said:

Oddly, teh Germans safety people found the Morgan to be surprisingly good with regards to passenger survivability....despite its ash body frame.

Who tested them?  They are not NCAP tested (just as well) as they qualify as an old design.

[jcredfer]

1 hour ago, alastairq said:

Oddly, teh Germans safety people found the Morgan to be surprisingly good with regards to passenger survivability....despite its ash body frame.

 

Didn't they also claim that VW were none-smokers??     🤣

 

 

[alastairq]

Not as an 'old design', but . for Europe, categorised under the 'small series approval'' testing.

As are  probably most new supercars?

The German TUV conducted tests some years ago. They discovered that intrusion into the passenger compartment was a lot less than many all-steel production cars..which was unexpected.

 

Anyway, I'd like to know how a new Moto Guzzi V7 special could pass an NCAP safety test? How safe would it be? Since I might be tempted to go & order one? Am I likely to be killed before its first MoT?

Pffft! SAfety?? Pah....It's about time motorcycle riders were made to wear their own air bags.....

[PhilJ W]

2 hours ago, alastairq said:

On the topic of Morgans.....they didn't look like that due to any sense of fashion..they were very much of their time. Form followed function. Like the Lotus 7, or the Dellow.

In my view, after the mid 1980's, Morgans tended to acquire a cache as a 'fashion accessory' rather than as  a proper sports car.  {The interiors bore me out on that personal view]...

By 'proper sports car', I refer back to the arguments that raged in the popular motoring media about 'what' constituted a 'proper' sports car?

Public demand meant 'sports' cars became more like today's posh trainers......almost a 'fashion accessory'' rather than a car of minimalist pretentions , able to be entered into a variety of motor sporting events with little or no alteration, aside from preparation.

Morgans [prior to the 1980's, in my view]....fell into the 'proper' sports car category, since they started off with minimalism to begin with.   Aside from the mandatory need for a roll over bar for speed events, nothing really needed to be 'done' to them to assist performance or survivability. But they weren't suitable transport to carry one's nearest & dearest to the Ball.....Not without arriving  in a dishevelled state, at least.

For the family person, they offered 4 seater versions....with little to keep the wee one's inside the car at speed, it should be added.

 

Yet, the non-cognoscenti driving public thought a VW KArmann Ghia, or a Renault Caravelle, was a 'sports car'....[Or worse, a soft top Vauxhall Astra!!]

 

Today, fashionable folk pay out hundreds for  a fashionable pair of trainers, with a fashionable name [as cache]...yet , would  anyone with any pretentions at being somewhat 'serious' athletes actually go running or whatever, with such footwear? Or, would one go out and buy the 'proper kit?'

 

In the end, it isn't [or, wasn't] about speed capabilities, or comfort, or weather protection, or whatever. A 'proper' sports car didn't need to have the ability to reach 100mph.

For the truth is, in most forms of motorsport, ultimate speed isn't everything...or even, part of it.

What really mattered  was, how the car drove. 

Even today, most production cars have  driving and roadholding compromises to make them usable & sellable to the motoring public at large.

A 'proper' sports car lacked compromise in those departments. It lacked the now-expected degrees of comfort..[Wind-up windows? What was that all about???]

Morgan themselves addressed the differences in the model ranges [up[ to the mid 1950's, at least]...by having both 'roadsters' [sports cars] and 'tourers' [ drophead coupes] in the line up. The touring lineup had similar mechanics to the  sports line up, but came with more civilized interiors or body design....full height doors with proper windy-uppy windows, proper weatherproof hoods, etc....The 4/4 and Plus 4 models having cutaway doors[for elbows to stick out of] and hoods that offered about as much weather protection as an umbrella in a force nine gale.  The Plus 4 seats had 'inflatable' seat cushions..for those of tender nether regions.  

 

The Plus 8 wasn't the first V8 Morgan, either.

Before WW2, when Morgan were making the 4/4 series 1 [4 wheeler]...they got hold of a Ford V8...and fitted into the 4/4 . It went 'very well indeed', but couldn't be progressed with as Ford wouldn't supply the [US type] V8 engines...[Flathead V8's...but differed from the Pilot V8, a UK product]...

However, for his daughter, Morgan made a special [with what was left?]...which was  a drophead coupe, with the V8 engine, for her personal use.....

I have no idea where or if it survived....Apparently she had one or two 'experimental' Morgans....

 

   A '54 plus 4 drophead coupe....note higher door line, proper foldaway [or, put-uppable?] hood, posh wood dash tops, etc...Very different from the 'roadster types..

The British Ford V8's had a poor reputation. When Fords built trucks (Commer cab) for the British army they were fitted with Canadian made engines.

[rodent279]

Beaulieu spring Autojumble, and Moggyfest, 13-15th May. There were about 80 Minors there, plus a display celebrating 60 years since the Minor Million was released. About 6 of the 350 Minor Millions were there including one that has been repatriated from Nevada, and the second of the 350 built.

Mine is the green Traveller.

 

 

[SamThomas]

2 hours ago, alastairq said:

Pffft! SAfety?? Pah....It's about time motorcycle riders were made to wear their own air bags.....

I'm pretty certain that there is now available motorcycling kit with some sort of "airbag" built in.

[Dunsignalling]

1 hour ago, SamThomas said:

I'm pretty certain that there is now available motorcycling kit with some sort of "airbag" built in.

Has been for a good few years, I understand.

 

 

[boxbrownie]

4 hours ago, alastairq said:

Not as an 'old design', but . for Europe, categorised under the 'small series approval'' testing.

As are  probably most new supercars?

The German TUV conducted tests some years ago. They discovered that intrusion into the passenger compartment was a lot less than many all-steel production cars..which was unexpected.

 

Anyway, I'd like to know how a new Moto Guzzi V7 special could pass an NCAP safety test? How safe would it be? Since I might be tempted to go & order one? Am I likely to be killed before its first MoT?

Pffft! SAfety?? Pah....It's about time motorcycle riders were made to wear their own air bags.....

As we used to say in the safety development area, motorbikes are just cars with all the safe bits taken off 🤣

[boxbrownie]

4 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

The British Ford V8's had a poor reputation. When Fords built trucks (Commer cab) for the British army they were fitted with Canadian made engines.

Ford Canada though 😉

[boxbrownie]

2 hours ago, SamThomas said:

I'm pretty certain that there is now available motorcycling kit with some sort of "airbag" built in.

And horse riding garments also.

[alastairq]

It takes but a mere second or two , to be knocked off one's motorcycle.....42 minutes to cease bouncing around....

 

It could be awkward if the damned thing sets itself off whilst the wearer is in the public loo...

 

Would the trouser portion be otherwise known as a ''Kardashian?''

 

When I had my big 'off', the one overriding thing I can recall , was the smell of scorching plastic as I skidded down the road on my helmet.

[Rugd1022]

No photos to hand yet, but I was pleasantly surprised when I came home from work this afternoon to see my neighbour Geoff has just acquired a very tidy and very original 1961 Ford Consul, a LHD car which came from Norway of all places. He is a life long Ford man and was chuffed to bits when his son fetched it down from Scotland on a trailer for him. More anon!

 

 

[doilum]

7 hours ago, boxbrownie said:

As I said…..make your minds up chaps at DVLC 🤔
 

Thanks for the info.

From 01/04/23 cars will be permitted to wear BW plates only if supported by photographic evidence of the car at first registration. The photograph should show the original owner and at least three of his/ her great grandparents........

[alastairq]

21 minutes ago, doilum said:

From 01/04/23 cars will be permitted to wear BW plates only if supported by photographic evidence of the car at first registration. The photograph should show the original owner and at least three of his/ her great grandparents........

 They're still looking for Lord lucan, then?