Brixington Town 2.0

[dale159]

I'm still working on your led thing, but now thinking about this too. Can you clarify a few things please? What is supposed to happen when you try setting a crossover when the other one is set? Do all four motors fire to reset the other to normal, or does nothing happen unless you reset the crossover first? Also, can you tell me what model of detector board you're using to drive the LEDs?

Many thanks for your help Mike.

 

Looking again at my drawing I've spotted 1 mistake in that I have mixed up the two outputs from the outer relays so that firing one crossover would prevent the same one being fired again rather than the opposite one, whoops only 2 wires the wrong way around!

 

My original intention was that if one crossover was set I would have to reset on the push button before being able to set the other one.

 

The points position indicators are from Micro miniatures - link to their site - http://www.microminiatures.co.uk/acatalog/Points_Position_Indicator.html. I could PM you the instruction sheet if that would be useful to you.

 

Dale

Edited March 19, 2015 by dale159

[Memphis32]

The seeps you're using are the ones with switches in, but they're being used for frog polarities, aren't they? I think the best solution to this would be to use relays for both interlocking and frog switching, and a little bit of cunning for LEDs, and not use those boards, as they're not really necessary once you've got the components to the rest! They'll be fine for the rest of your points.

[dale159]

The seeps you're using are the ones with switches in, but they're being used for frog polarities, aren't they? I think the best solution to this would be to use relays for both interlocking and frog switching, and a little bit of cunning for LEDs, and not use those boards, as they're not really necessary once you've got the components to the rest! They'll be fine for the rest of your points.

 

Are you referring to all the points or just the scissors? If its just the scissors their frog polarities are sorted out by the 3 relays under the boards as documented bottom of page 4 post 100, the 4 motors under the control panel should interlock the scissors but it seems 1 CDU isn't powerful enough to work all 6 motors (although only 3 would actually move) simultaneously hence the idea to work the interlock motors off the middle CDUs using the 3 relays.

 

Dale

Edited March 19, 2015 by dale159

[Pete Harvey]

I would of thought all you need is 1 push to make buttons and one SPDT switch (the relays will do the work controling the polarity) with the SPDT in the middle of the diamond on the track diagram and the push to make on one side of the running rails, you would select either up for straight ahead or down for cross and the push to make to fire the CDU the SPDT controls the which side of the Seep motor gets the power and the direction as you can never have trains crossing from both directions you can have all 4 points throwing at the same time.

 

Pete

[dale159]

I would of thought all you need is 1 push to make buttons and one SPDT switch (the relays will do the work controling the polarity) with the SPDT in the middle of the diamond on the track diagram and the push to make on one side of the running rails, you would select either up for straight ahead or down for cross and the push to make to fire the CDU the SPDT controls the which side of the Seep motor gets the power and the direction as you can never have trains crossing from both directions you can have all 4 points throwing at the same time.

 

Pete

 

Thanks for your ideas Pete.

 

I think given how far I've got now it would be a huge backward step to change it, plus the way I've set it up is how I wanted it to work, one toggle switch sets the crossover route and the push button returns it to 'normal' straight ahead route

 

I'm not a million miles away from getting it working but obviously I'm asking too much of 1 poor little CDU so I think the circuit with the 3 car relays under the panel and moving the interlock motors onto the middle CDU is the best way forward to get it to work as I designed it to.

 

Dale

[dale159]

I've ordered 6 car relays off eBay which have arrived this morning, hoping to fit and get them working tomorrow, as I am working this afternoon unfortunately!

 

Dale

Edited March 21, 2015 by dale159

[dale159]

Unfortunately my trip to the garage isn't going well so far.

 

Before I'd even started the points on middle CDU has stopped working again for reasons I've yet to work out, last time jiggling the wires coming out of it sorted it out but no joy this time.

 

Then I tested a relay on the connected to the purple reset wire with some jump leads, solenoid of the relay worked by it randomly changed LEDs on the panel - different ones with each press of the button! So I'm not sure as to hats going on there.

 

Whilst trying to diagnose the CDU problems the chest of draws below the board had to come out so while it was out I permanently fitted the transformer and shortened the excess wires

 

Looks like I've got some more head scratching to do!

 

Dale

 

 

[topsy11]

Just a thought, but have you dropped Brian Lambert a message with the troubles you're having?

 

He's helped me out pretty much from day one and with my very limited electronic knowledge and poor electrical terminology my end, he's helped me through even with me sometimes sending 5+ messages a day!

 

Top bloke when it comes to electrical problems.

 

Cheers

Mark

[dale159]

Just a thought, but have you dropped Brian Lambert a message with the troubles you're having?

 

He's helped me out pretty much from day one and with my very limited electronic knowledge and poor electrical terminology my end, he's helped me through even with me sometimes sending 5+ messages a day!

 

Top bloke when it comes to electrical problems.

 

Cheers

Mark

Thanks Mark, I will keep that in mind.

 

Been out again this afternoon having got nowhere with the relays, have brought one inside to do some more testing, I decided to see if I could address some of the other outstanding issues.

 

Some good news, I have identified the cause of the one dead section of track - no red wire from the controller 1 bus to the switch inside the control panel - egg on face job!

Bottom right terminal - Whoooooops!

 

I have managed to reposition the point motor on the front siding and had a train running over it in both directions.

 

Also I think I have identified the random short on controller 1, again caused by a badly positioned point motor not throwing enough and bridging red and black wires to the frog feed - Although it does not affect controller 2 for reasons unknown. I have tried to ease it over by a few mm but this hasn't cured the problem.

 

Dale

Edited March 22, 2015 by dale159

[Markmiller2008]

Hi Dale

 

Just read through your thread with much interest as i am about to convert my garage to build a layout in.

 

Looking very good so far will watch the layout progress.

Mark 

[dale159]

Good news.

 

But I'll start with some not so good news - my middle CDU is dead which explains why the points it powered weren't working, before I buy a replacement tomorrow I have bypassed it and connected its points straight to the transformer with a pair of jump leads.

 

And now for the good news.

 

I have a working fully interlocking scissor crossing.

 

Where I was going wrong previously was connecting the relay and point motor in series whereas they are now connected in parallel. I have also wired up the other scissor srossing with the other 3 relays however this still isn't working correctly, some further investigation to come this week when my eyes are a bit fresher.

 

Dale

[dale159]

Another quick hour in the garage earlier.

 

Unfortunately noting to report on the points other than I have confirmed that I have killed another CDU, one of the ones I bought about 2 months ago, not sure what to do about that

 

However, I seem to have rectified the random short which I suspected to be point motor. There was a red and black feed across from another connector block feeding where it shouldn't so when the point was thrown one rail was joining the red and black together and causing the short, quickly rectified with the wire cutters once I'd worked it out.

 

Dale

[class"66"]

Looking realy good Dale

 

 

 

 

cheers neil..

[dale159]

Here's something a bit strange - and annoying I discovered yesterday.

 

Still getting nowhere with the few outstanding electrical issues so I decided to test a few more items of stock over the scissor crossings, I was running a Hornby mk3 DVT which I was propelling with a 67 and 3 coaches I discovered that the DVT derailed on all the curves even the outside radius. I have changed the couplings from the standard tension lock to Kadee No.5s. Then I saw it was being caused by buffer locking with the coach.

 

I also noted that the buffers on the inner end or the DVT are portrayed in the extended position, whereas in reality if coupled to a mk3 coach by buckeye the buffers would be in the retracted position. So it looks like some surgery is required on my DVT.

 

Dale

[dale159]

Buffer problem now sorted

 

Pulled the buffers out, cut the head of the shanks and glued them straight to the chassis.

 

Much better, although the set still doesn't like being propelled across reverse curves, maybe needs more weight in them

 

Dale

[86902]

Hi Dale

Have you tried using the keen coupler sets on the mk3s?

I'm slowly doing all mine, makes a big difference, and works out about £12 for 5 coaches.

Cheers

Bob

Edited April 8, 2015 by 86902

[dale159]

Hi Dale

Have you tried using the keen coupler sets on the mk3s?

I'm slowly doing all mine, makes a big difference, and works out about £12 for 5 coaches.

Cheers

Bob

image.jpg

Thanks Bob,

 

It's an option but a daunting task of fitting about 70 mk3s of Hornby, Lima and even a few Jouef coaches, mainly used with HSTs some with the modern Hornby type power car with a single motorised power car and some with Lima power cars fitted with the Hornby railroad chassis powered both ends.

 

Dale

Edited April 8, 2015 by dale159

[Removed a/c]

How did you fit a Kadee to the MK3s? 

[dale159]

How did you fit a Kadee to the MK3s?

 

DVT or coaches?

 

Coaches are quite simple, 2 cuts down the buffer beam with a razor saw using the kadee as a guide, then I break out the required bit between the two saw cuts with a pair of pliers and then clean up with a file, some coaches may require a shim of plasticard to get the height right.

 

Dale

Edited April 11, 2015 by dale159

[Removed a/c]

Thanks, it was the MK3s I was inquiring about. 

[dale159]

No further progress with the electrics since the last post.

 

Today I have ordered a heavy duty CDU from eBay - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/231308735047?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT.

 

Hopefully this will be substantial enough to move 6 points at once as advertised and I'll be able to do away with the car relays as I haven't been able to get them to work reliably.

 

Dale

[dale159]

Hi Dale

 

Your idea for coupling the mk3s is exactly how I did min although I have only done 2 of them at this time so I can find out which coupler length is best for my layout.

 

Once my mk3 set is finished including the power cars when I manage to finally buy another for the set and put a motor in it I will then be turning to a mk4 set of coaches + 2 class 91 locos & 1 DVT, but I think the mk4s are not going to be easy to do.

 

I think that the hardest part will be the 91s and dvt.

 

I would welcome any advice you have regarding the mk4 set.

 

I have used Kadee No.5s which are about the most common type used on British stock - Also avalable in bulk pack No.11 for the heads and No.242 for the gearboxes (2 packs of 242s required for each pack of 11s) My tightest curve is where the DVT was buffer locking with the coach before I modified the buffers, I'd say that this was just a little bit bigger than 3rd radius.

 

Can't be 100% sure about the 91 and Mk4s as I don't own any but I would imagine it wouldn't be too dissimilar to HST power cars and Mk3s.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Dale

Edited April 22, 2015 by dale159

[dale159]

The new CDU from Railroom Electronics came in the post today.

 

I have just been and installed it and reconfigured the wiring to how it was originally and not surprisingly the operation is back to how it was as well, interlock motors work but not those on the layout.

 

I think I need to consult our electronics genius up the local club.

 

Dale

[dale159]

Think I might be on to something here,

 

Ordered a few of these - http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=111389297337&alt=web

 

To be used in place of the current single pole toggle switches, one side for interlocks with a feed taken from the middle cdu and the other for the scissor motors. I was trying to find a double pole push to make switch to do the same with the reset but can't find anything on the net,so a single car relay may have to be pressed back into use for that, here's to hoping!

 

Dale

[Pete Harvey]

I'm at the Sutton Coldfield Show this weekend with Peters Street and Squires is there and I noticed the attached.

 

 

The ones in the middle 821-094 £1.99 Each Spring Centre Return.

 

Pete