dullsteamer Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 From memory, when the subject was debated on a Traction Modelling forum, the common agreement was modellers wanted something of the quality of a Hollywood Foundry drive, but the size of a NWSL Stanton drive and at the price of a Bachmann Brill trolley... I can never understand that mentality. If I'm going to the effort of building a loco from scratch or a kit, then I'm more than happy to pay a fair price for a good-quality mechanism to put under it. To me, a cheap mechanism is just false economy. At the moment Flickr is down for maintenance, but when it's back I'll post some photos of a simple mech I built for a Cannonball GE steeplecab using NWSL Stanton drives. Something very similar would work for this BLW loco, I reckon. I've successfully used a pair of Stantons to repower my MTS BLW B-1, too. BTW, Damin, I'm very impressed with your efforts so far in drawing the BLW B - very nice! Cheers, Mark. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 Truck centres are 16', truck wheelbase is 6'6", wheels are 34", cab is 16'6.5" (external). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supaned Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 Looking at it , a Stanton drive truck certainly provides the right wheelbase , I presume a pair of powered trucks could be wired in parallel to work from one DCC decoder? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 Thanks Andy - much tighter than I thought Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 Truck centres are 16', truck wheelbase is 6'6", wheels are 34", cab is 16'6.5" (external). I have just measured a Bachmann UE Chassis that is under one of my Boxcabs (admittedly it only drivss on one axle with traction tires, but picks up on the other 3 and with added lead pulls very well Truck cebtres are 19'as near as I can measure it , truck WB is 6'6" and wheels are 10.5mm (36") the (central) motor sticks up 3 scale feet, and the tops of the gear towers stick up 2 scale feet, above the footplate - it should be possible to remove 3 scale feet from the non-drive end of the chassis without too much problem and perhaps add a brass angle strengthener with epoxy to each side of the chassis/footplate Watch for a jump in the cost of UE chassis! If Damin can supply the truck sides as seperate parts (Perhaps on a sprue) they can be stuck to the outside of the bogie frames Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 You forget that the bonnets of the steeple cabs were offset, so unless you can offset the gear towers into the space beneath the bonnet, they aren't going to fit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 I've had a good look at a Bachmann UE chassis and other bits lying around from a 44 tonner, and think it might be possible to use them but it won't be straightforward- as Bill says there isn't the width clearance within the hoods unless you reduce the width of the worm holder. The truck centres are less of an issue as although 55mm is shorter than standard, you could drive on one truck or 3D another chassis block with a shorter motor in. Here are a few rubbish photos of a Brass B, I'm not sure of it's origins but has a Suydam-type spring drive. This chassis used Hollywood foundry trucks and is from a Brill Master Unit. I thought there might be clearance for such a style of truck but once the thicker 3D printed walls are taken into consideration there wouldn't be clearance. And my first GE Steeplecab, built before I had proper dimensions and fitted with a lengthened American Model Builders lowering kit. I doubt this type of truck would fit either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaminKeenan Posted July 27, 2013 Author Share Posted July 27, 2013 I'm not sure whether it'd be better to produce them seperately (I'd only break them if they were moulded on), and there is some variation amongst locos, ranging from ones made from bent metal strip similar to yours, or chunkier ones with pressed steps from lattice plate. In model form these equate to steps lasercut from plastic sheet (AMB Steeplecab), flattened brass strip (on numerous brass imports), or cast whitemetal treads. Yes, they won't be printed already mounted on the shell. They'll probably be printed on a separate sprue, along with other small details. The shell will then have "starter" holes or other features designed to help position the parts for installation. I think it would be neat to include different versions of each part, allowing the user to select the ones that meet their preference. Thanks, Damin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaminKeenan Posted July 27, 2013 Author Share Posted July 27, 2013 I can never understand that mentality. If I'm going to the effort of building a loco from scratch or a kit, then I'm more than happy to pay a fair price for a good-quality mechanism to put under it. To me, a cheap mechanism is just false economy. I agree with you Mark. I've seen too many people whine about something being not available commercially, only to turn about and whine about the cost, or some road-specific detail that they don't like, when some manufacturer steps up to the plate. In reality, I don't think that "those" people will ever be satisfied, and probably wouldn't buy such an item no matter what the cost. To them, I offer two suggestions: shut up and buy it, or shut up and build it yourself! And thanks to Shapeways, I can take the later course for myself. Thanks, Damin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaminKeenan Posted July 27, 2013 Author Share Posted July 27, 2013 Here are my current theories as to how this model could be powered in various scales... For O scale, I would consider going with a set of assemblied trucks (one powered and one dummy) from Q-Car Company. Such trucks would offer a completely, or nearly completely, underfloor option for powering the model. Baldwin/Westinghouse sideframes (part number CB227) are listed as "special order" on their website. I would recommend contacting them to see if they are still available. You could also ask them if the appropriately sized trucks are available without sideframes, allowing you to add 3D printed ones yourself. For HO scale, a NWSL Stanton drive with a 6' - 6" wheelbase and 33" wheels (with 0.110" wide tread) is $84.95 for a powered truck (NWSL part number 39274-4), and $44.95 for a dummy truck (NWSL part number 39274D-4). I've sent an inquire regarding the height, width, and length of the Stanton drive to NWSL via the "Contact Us" link on their website. I await their response. For N scale, I'm exploring Velopeur's suggestion of the Bandai B-Train chassis. I've gone ahead and ordered one from PlazaJapan on Ebay. Thanks, Damin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dullsteamer Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 G'day Damin, Until you hear from Dave at NWSL, here's a diagram showing the dimensions of the Stanton truck: Not my work, I hasten to add, it's from this gentleman's blog: http://interurban.blogspot.fr/ I think you'll find Volkmar's work interesting, he's producing interurban cars and parts using 3D printing. All the best, Mark. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dullsteamer Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 As promised, here's two - admittedly poor quality - photos of the simple mech I built for a MRR Warehouse GE steeplecab. It's just 60 thou styrene laminated together and reinforced with some Code 100 nickel silver rail. It's as rough as guts but it works. It gives the corrrect ride height for the body, and keeps the interior free for the addition of weight and a decoder. I'm very interested in Damin's work on the Baldwin B, as there were a number of these locos, and locally-built copies, running on Japanese government and private lines. Chichibu Tetsudo BLW B class locos All the best, Mark. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaminKeenan Posted July 29, 2013 Author Share Posted July 29, 2013 Just got a reply from Dave at NWSL. He attached a partial CAD drawing of the Stanton housing. I'll compare it with the diagram Mark provided and update the digital model to fit. Thanks, Damin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Which program are you using, Damin...? I've had a quick play with Sketchup for a first attempt, and can guarantee that it is as difficult as I thought it'd be...!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaminKeenan Posted July 31, 2013 Author Share Posted July 31, 2013 Which program are you using, Damin...? I've had a quick play with Sketchup for a first attempt, and can guarantee that it is as difficult as I thought it'd be...!! I'm using the student version of Autodesk Maya. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaminKeenan Posted August 2, 2013 Author Share Posted August 2, 2013 BTW while tootling around the Internet this evening, I came across blog entry on the MRH website... http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/13955 He has posted a model for an 85-ton GE steeplecab on Shapeways... https://www.shapeways.com/model/1002219/85-ton-ge-steeple-cab-ho.html He says that it fits an HO Atlas HH660 frame. It might be worth checking out. Meanwhile I'm waiting for my Bandai chassis to arrive to see if it will fit inside the B-1. Thanks, Damin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-59 Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 Figures crossed for the Bandai. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaminKeenan Posted December 13, 2013 Author Share Posted December 13, 2013 Okay so it's been a while since my last post on this topic... I measured the Bandai chassis against the digital model I've been developing. It's kind of a good-news/bad-news situation. The bad news is that the B-1 with the hood-less design is impossible as there is no way to hide/cover the gear towers on the trucks. Also the chassis is slightly wider that the body, so I had to enlarge the design to fit. The good news is that, hopefully, this won't be too noticeable to anyone but purists (actually, purists with calipers; but who in their right mind walks around with a pair of calipers in their back pocket all day long?). I've uploaded the model to Shapeways and have ordered a test print. It's still a work-in-progress, and therefore not for sale yet. The link is http://www.shapeways.com/model/1565525/n-scale-baldwin-class-b-work-in-progress.html. I'll keep you posted. Thanks, Damin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof Klyzlr Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Dear Damin, SteepleCab fans, Apart from putting in a good word for Hollywood Foundry, can I also mention another Aussie mech maker who does self-contained power trucks which will give the Staton a run for it's money in slow-speed crawl performance, the Steam Era Models Black Beetle. http://www.steameramodels.com/bbeetle.htm I'd highly reccomend opting for the 27:1 ratio units, which gives an immediate benefit above and beyond the common 14:1 ratio of most equivalent PDT/SPUD-esque units.(have had the chance to head-to-head compare 14 and 27:1 ratio units under On30 logging locos, and for both crawl and haul performance it was a night/day difference). Just thinking out loud... Happy Modelling,Aim to Improve,Prof Klyzlr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dullsteamer Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 I'll second the Prof's recommendation. I've got a couple of 27:1 ratio Black Beetles that I used to repower an old Tenshodo brass model of a JNR DD13 diesel. It was originally fitted with a drive that drew enough current to dim the room lights and that sounded like a coffee grinder on steroids... The new mech uses two BBs wired together, mounted on the existing frame with minimal modification. The result is a very smooth running and controllable loco with ample power. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfsboy Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 I lurk on this thread and bought a Bandai chassis you kindly shown.Later another forum came up with this so I have one on order .I am building a small n gauge roundy with sharp curves and fancied N scale interurban but no equipment but this will kick start it at least .The Bandai chassis just arrived .sweet runner I think the panto on this may need a slight rework . http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10232025 martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaminKeenan Posted December 23, 2013 Author Share Posted December 23, 2013 The box from Shapeways just arrived. At first glance, the shell looks good. The footboards are a little warped; I'll try straighting them out using hot water when I get home. I'll post pictures later. Thanks, Damin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaminKeenan Posted December 23, 2013 Author Share Posted December 23, 2013 I think the panto on this may need a slight rework . http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10232025 martin Hi Martin, I don't know if you're planning on using the entire body, or just the pans themselves. However, Kato sells a variety of pantographs as spare parts... https://www.google.com/search?q=Kato+%22N+scale%22+pantograph&oq=Kato+%22N+scale%22+pantograph&aqs=chrome..69i57.6570j0j8&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8#es_sm=93&espv=210&q=Kato+%22N+scale%22+pantograph&tbm=shop Thanks, Damin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfsboy Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 Hi Martin, I don't know if you're planning on using the entire body, or just the pans themselves. However, Kato sells a variety of pantographs as spare parts... https://www.google.com/search?q=Kato+%22N+scale%22+pantograph&oq=Kato+%22N+scale%22+pantograph&aqs=chrome..69i57.6570j0j8&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8#es_sm=93&espv=210&q=Kato+%22N+scale%22+pantograph&tbm=shop Thanks, Damin. I'll play it by ear but a good pantograph is a must so thanks for the link .i sort of fancy fitting foot boards ,panto ,KD,s and a repaint but i'll see how its made when it arrives .it also come with a 2nd shorty train body so if it all fails my grandson can have a little bandai B train roundy to play with . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dullsteamer Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 I am building a small n gauge roundy with sharp curves and fancied N scale interurban but no equipment but this will kick start it at least .The Bandai chassis just arrived .sweet runner I think the panto on this may need a slight rework . Yes, it should look like this: Joshin Dentetsu had three of these locos built by Siemens-Shuckert/MAN. All survive - DeKi 3 is plinthed, but 1 and 2 seen here are still available for traffic. Cheers, Mark. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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