Did BR Western Region varnish their diesel hydraulics?

[Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71]

Mornin' all,

 

Is anyone aware of whether Swindon applied varnish to their hydraulics esp. Westerns in the early to mid sixties?

 

Cheers

 

Dave

[Andy W]

If they did it can't have been very well applied, given the number of locos running around with paintwork damaged by washing plants.

[The Stationmaster]

To be honest I doubt it - even in steam days Swindon's painting was very much in the 'economy mode' (the engine paintshop was dispensed with back in Churchward's days) and I'm reasonably sure with the 1000s it was gloss paint which was used and no varnish and repainted Hymeks were varnished.

 

The story of teh early Swindon blue era is a complex one subject to all sorts of interpretation and comments and all I would say, based solely on personal observation at the time is that soem locos came out in a somewhat paler looking and more vibrant blue than became the subsequent rule

[Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71]

Hi Mike,

 

That would be my assessment too. I hear the oft stated 'every Western was painted with the same shade of BR blue' and yet direct comparison of colour pictures from the mid sixties of them in bright sunlight, at least questions this.  

 

If varnish was used then this could affect the perceived shade of blue in such light conditions.

 

There are some very shiny Westerns in colour pictures from this period.

 

Knowing that Swindon always liked to 'go their own way' suggests that their locos are unlikely to be standard.

 

Dave

[stovepipe]

Don't forget that Swindon didn't actually build that many of the diesel-hydraulics.

 

Only 38 Warships, 30 Westerns, and the 56 teddy-bears. All the others were built elsewhere - Crewe, NBL, Beyer Peacock - no doubt each with varying paint specs from new.

[Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71]

....bearing in mind that no Westerns were built in blue S and that Swindon is likely to have applied most of the early blue paintwork, then the observation re this particular livery stands. 

 

Dave

[stovepipe]

Quite so, but you were asking about early to mid-60s in your original post.

[Xerces Fobe2]

It is interested to note that the Western regaion hydraulics paint appeared to discolor very quickly and the same could be said for a lot of the DMU's. I wonder if the Western used different chemicals in their washing plants as compared to other regions at the time?

 

XF

[The Stationmaster]

It is interested to note that the Western regaion hydraulics paint appeared to discolor very quickly and the same could be said for a lot of the DMU's. I wonder if the Western used different chemicals in their washing plants as compared to other regions at the time?

 

XF

The problem with washing plants fell into a number of areas.  Kensal Green for years had problems with both speed regulation of trains (and locos) passing through it plus the rinse cycle wasn't correctly timed (exacerbated by speeding) which meant the Exmover it used originally was not properly rinsed.  Several of the cleaning machines installed at depots didn't last very long - brushes which took oil deposits off the side of one loco were quite good at putting it onto the next one and generally - so I was told - there were other problems with maintaining the washers so they fell into disuse fairly early on.

 

All of this meant that effectively locos were only washed when passing through the carriage cleaning washers and Kensal Green wasn't the only one which had problems with rinse times.  For coaches it wasn't too bad because if they started getting Exmover stained they would be hand cleaned to try to get rid of it and in many depots there was still an element of hand cleaning anyway - albeit at cost.  But as far as locos were concerned very few depots had cleaning staff with any time available to spend on locos - they had the depot itself to try to keep clean - so the only cleaning tended to be restricted to longer exams when artisan staff sometimes had an opportunity to try and get things better.  In later years painting at depot level seems to have replaced cleaning!

[Rugd1022]

....bearing in mind that no Westerns were built in blue S and that Swindon is likely to have applied most of the early blue paintwork, then the observation re this particular livery stands. 

 

Dave

 

Swindon applied all of the early blue liveries on the Thousands, Crewe had no hand in it at all once their batch had been built in 1964.

 

We still see references to (ahem, cough) 'chromatic blue' when talking about the Swindon repaints from late '66 onwards, they certainly had their own way of undercoating and applying top coats, but as a 'dedicated' named colour it didn't actually exist. It may have looked different in the flesh as Mike and others have noted from first hand experience, but the paint itself came out of the same tins labelled 'Monastral Blue' as subsequent repaints once the corporate image had been established. In one of the Strathwood books on Hydraulics there are some beautiful colour photos of D1030 on display at Taplow in September '66 in it's famous early blue / small yellow panels guise, parked up next to it is a rake of stock in Monastral Blue, which matches exactly that on D1030 itself. I'd say that the differences we see in other published material showing all seven blue / syp Westerns is often down to the condition of the original image, lighting, printing variations etc, not to mention being copied over and over. For instance, there's a well known shot of D1037 on Bath Road Shed which makes it look a very bright shade of torquoise, but elsewhere there's another shot of it at Plymouth newly outshopped from Swindon, looking very dark indeed. The presence of the small yellow panel shouldn't be overlooked either, as it can have an optical effect on the surrounding blue from some angles.... look at pics of BSYP and BFYE Westerns alongside each other and you might get the idea.

 

Something worth pointing out regarding the patchwork paintwork on Westerns and Warships is the 'Prestolith' body coating process which happened when they were being built, before they were undercoated... the bodyshells were effectively 'monococques' with stressed skin construction, and this Prestolith (a paste like substance) was coated on the completed shell to smooth out any ripples before the painting process began. Being monocoques the shells twisted in active service making the Prestolith crack at weak spots, resulting in large chunks of the stuff falling off, taking the surrounding paint with it. Warships were particularly prone to this, more so than the Westerns, while the Hymeks and 22s being of (more or less) standard construction never had this problem (they did look bl**dy aweful at times though!).

[Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71]

...thanks R. In dull light I don't detect any colour difference...as you suggest. However, shiny locos (hence the varnish question) in bright sunlight seem to change shade. Other colours in the same pictures e.g. grass green, tree green etc still look the same, which casts doubt on the dodgy picture colour explanation.

 

Dave