Advice on OO gauge track underlay please

[justgettingstarted]

Hello, I'm in the process of laying down my track at the moment and have been using the Peco foam underlay with Peco code 100 streamline track. It's OK but I'm not 100% happy with it. One of the reasons I'm not happy with it is that the sleepers sit into sleeper indentations of the foam, now I can see that this is beneficial if no ballast is going to be added but I want to ballast my track and if I do then the sleepers are going to disappear under the ballast - does that make sense?

 

As I haven't done a huge amount yet then as far as I'm concerned it's not too late to redo the underlay with something like cork strip instead of the foam. Can you suggest either a good cork underlay or even something completely different.

 

Thanks in advance for any help/suggestions that you can give me and obviously if I haven't given you enough information then just let me know.

 

Graham

[BR60103]

I don't like the foam underlay at all -- all mine disintegrated after 10 or 20 years.

I have a small bit that used Woodland Scenics rubber roadbed. But I don't have any fancy trackork on that section.

Most of my layouts have track laid on the subroadbed.

I found cork a problem but it did hold pins and spikes.

[fender]

I've purchased Carr's Rubberised Cork for my new layout, although I haven't laid any yet and so can't comment: http://www.finescale.org.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=437&product_id=3742

 

Previously I've used the Tracklay underlay system, which has an adhesive backing and works very well, but is not cheap. The advantage is that you can ballast the track without using glue, as the ballast sticks to the underlay (the adhesive side is facing up, with the track sticking to it and ballast in between the sleepers), and so you can peel it all off at a later date to reuse the track again. that may be a big help if you plan to alter your layout in the future but it comes at the cost of the underlay and the ballast will never look as good as the traditional diluted PVA ballast technique (which looks brilliant when done well, but you'd have to replace much if not all of your track if you ever wanted to build a different layout).

 

I've read of people buying cork from flooring suppliers (If I recall correctly), which can be much cheaper than cork 'designed' for model railways, and also that the Woodland Scenic underlay is very good (but not cheap).

 

for my small layout the rubberised cork looked pretty good.

 

I have never read anything good about any of the underlay types that you are using at the moment. I stand to be corrected, but the comment by David above is one I have read often: they tend to degrade over time. also, imo, they don't look very good and they cost too much, although they allow you to reuse your track at a later date.

 

it really boils down to how much work you want to do on ballasting and how permanent your layout will be. you can find much more information on all of this, I'm sure, by searching this site.

 

hope that helps.

[justgettingstarted]

OK, thanks for replies and they really have confirmed what I was thinking - time for a rethink. 

 

Graham

[Gordon A]

I opt for 1/8" or 3mm thick cork stuck down with pva on to Birch ply.

I have found it stable easy to cut, shape and paint.

 

Gordon A

Bristol

[Norm81]

I found Wickes cheapest for cork floor tiles.

[CullingworthGNR]

I have used cork before, in an attempt to minimise noise, but once it was glued and PVA'd up it was just as noisy as without it. Apparently using Copydex rather than PVA can help though, as it is more elastic and rubbery.

[Gordon A]

Why worry about noise?

The real thing can be quite noisy espeacilly if you are modelling up to the 70's.

Noise tells us if every thing is working correctly, or not as the case may be.

 

Gordon A

Bristol

[Gruffalo]

No one has yet mentioned 3mm closed cell polyurethane! This is used by aero modellers as being gluable and strong. With the closed cell construction, you will get some sound attenuation but it will result in a "not-solid" track bed. I am not a convert to it but I am interested to see if there are others with some experience of it.

[westcountryman]

Pop down to your local camping emporium / bargain shop / Wilko's / pound-o-rama or whatever, & get yourself a standard closed cell foam camping sleeping mat.

Cut it into the required shapes or strips etc & fix it down with Copydex or any other latex adhesive, it stinks but stays elastic, & it'll deaden any amount of noise.

When it comes to ballasting, use latex adhesive watered down to fix the ballast to the sustrate, as said before, it kills any noise & is great once the smell dies away!

We've used it on our exhibition layout 'Tawbridge' down here in Barnstaple, & it works a treat.

Better still, come along to our show on Saturday & see it in the flesh.

Cheers

Rob

[steve1]

I've used conventional cork sheet and cork flooring tiles in the past and had acceptable results with both.

 

However, these days I use the foam sheet sold by Wizard Models. It sticks down with PVA, it's easy to cut, both to size and to let structured into it and track will stick with PVA. I also use Johnson's Klear for ballasting and that works fine too.

 

http://www.wizardmodels.co.uk/

 

steve

[Phil Bullock]

I opt for 1/8" or 3mm thick cork stuck down with pva on to Birch ply.

I have found it stable easy to cut, shape and paint.

 

Gordon A

Bristol

With Gordon on that! Shops like Cheltenham Models - no connection other than a satisfied customer - buy in bulk and sell on as rolls at a cost effective price.

 

Wouldn't use pins though - glue track down with bricks (12" to 1 foot bricks) on the track until the glue sets. Then ballast with dry ballast and use diluted PVA glue for adhesion, add a bit of detergent too  - daily shower clean sprays are excellent to wet the ballast before applying the glue, they will wet it thoroughly with minimal application. Once dry spray ballast and track with your chosen weathering.

 

See Abbotswood - link below - for results of this method.

 

Phil

 

Phil

[justgettingstarted]

WOW!! Fantastic response from all who replied and thank you to all of you. There are some really novel ideas there and it just goes to show how resourceful you lot are.  

 

I got in from work late tonight so not much chance to do anything on the layout but I had to have my 'fix' so I made a decision and ditch the foam and spent 15 minutes taking the pins out of some of the outer track and to be honest, it felt the right thing to do. Thanks once again people for all your help, much appreciated.

 

Graham

[gordon s]

Personally I won't use closed cell foam like Depron.  You have to be very careful to use the correct adhesive as it will melt quickly, but it also is easy to 'dent'.  The slightest pressure with a thumb or tool and you will have an indent.  Not ideal if you are trying to lay track carefully to ensure it is level and true.

 

http://yourmodelrailway.net/view_topic.php?id=9349&forum_id=6&highlight=depron

 

I use 3mm cork strip for plain track and 3mm cork tiles for pointwork.

 

http://www.charlescantrill.com/model-railway/cork-track-strips.html

 

The cork tiles I got from DIY tools, who I believe are Taylor Brothers in Liverpool.  Tried their website but it is no longer available.  I seem to recall they were the cheapest at £5.10 per pack of 9 tiles 300 x 300 x 3mm. 

[martin_wynne]

Personally I won't use closed cell foam like Depron.  You have to be very careful to use the correct adhesive as it will melt quickly, but it also is easy to 'dent'.  The slightest pressure with a thumb or tool and you will have an indent.  Not ideal if you are trying to lay track carefully to ensure it is level and true.

 

http://yourmodelrailway.net/view_topic.php?id=9349&forum_id=6&highlight=depron

 

I use 3mm cork strip for plain track and 3mm cork tiles for pointwork.

 

Hi Gordon,

 

Your YMR link is not available to non-members. I think in due course new owner Alan will change this, but at present he doesn't want to go against Bob.

 

regards,

 

Martin.

[justgettingstarted]

Well, I did a little experiment tonight when I got in from work as I had an idea today which I thought may work. I took the pins out of the first section of track I had laid down (I wanted to anyway as the pins I first used were too large), so with the track still in place but free of pins I then slipped out the existing underlay and put my idea into action. I cut the two edges off either side of the foam up to the edge of the indentation of the sleepers, I then turned the foam over so that the indentations were on the underside and slipped it back underneath the track and carefully lined the edges of the underlay up with the edges of the sleepers. 

 

So what I have now is a bed of foam underneath the track with no edges sticking out further than the edge of the sleepers and also the sleepers are now sitting on top of the foam rather than in the indentations - I hope that all makes sense!!

 

This will now allow me to ballast the track and still have the sleepers showing and I will also be able to still have the chamfer on the edge therefore completely hiding the foam, so this now gives me the look I want plus I still get the sound deadening as well plus no extra expense. I know that there was some advice that foam doesn't last for more than 10-20 years but to be honest, at my age then I'm probably not going to be here to worry about it.  :-)

 

Graham

[MattWallace]

Bit late to this, but I'm using cork for Appleford Junction (see http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/69236-appleford-junction-was-redcot/page-4&do=findComment&comment=1111630

 for exactly how I'm using it) and I'm cutting a 45-degree chamfer on the edge of the cork using a mount-cutter.

[justgettingstarted]

Yet another great solution - thanks. I have now decided to carry on using the foam as I bought so much of it and the principle seems to be working OK. I have done a small update to the layout which shows the before and after - link here:

 

http://youtu.be/4Mddi1VZtck

 

Graham

[Holmesfeldian]

I am planning a layout and sound deadening for the fiddle yard is very important for no other reason as to stop rumbling noise going through to the lounge below and winding up the family !

 

Interested to see if cork flooring tiles (cheap and self adhesive) from wickes etc will work in deadening noise - no ballasting in a fiddle yard so that particular counter argument won't really apply.

 

The foam sheet option is also of interest. The fiddle yard needs to be sheeted for ease as it is nearly all track.

 

Any thoughts on carpet underlay ?

 

The diorama side will be woodland scenics trackbed foam unless anyone advises against it.

 

http://woodlandscenics.woodlandscenics.com/show/Item/ST1474/page/1

 

Rubberised 'feet' will be attached to the board legs for extra insulation.

http://www.elastometall.ie/table_ke_kp_ds_mount.php?p=kmount