Wandering through Georgia

[burgundy]

Travelling through rural Georgia recently, we stopped off in Madison, which is about 60 miles east of Atlanta and whose main claim to fame is the large number of pre Civil War houses that survive. The story goes that General Sherman, while “marching through Georgia”, was talked out of destroying Madison either because of its charm – or because he was persuaded by a pro-Union friend of his brother, who lived there. However, the number of ante bellum houses in this part of the world does make me wonder whether his scorched earth policy was quite as comprehensive as both sides chose to present it subsequently.

There is a walking tour of the town, which includes the railroad depot (pronounced dee-po) as one of its stops and so, in amongst admiring the considerable number of timber framed houses, we just had to pay a visit to the railroad.

The obvious depot building itself was a rebuild from about 1900 (Sherman's troops clearly were pretty thorough in dealing with railroad facilities and anything that might have military value) but what caught my attention was that there was rather more to the area than just a straight track through.

First of all, the railroad was a couple of blocks back from the town centre, indicating that the town existed before the railroad arrived. Plenty of towns in the area developed because of the railroad, so that the town has grown up around it with a road and storefronts on either side of the track(s). This must be quite disconcerting where CSX or Norfolk Southern 100 car freights still go barrelling through every hour, with the horn blaring for each level crossing. The second point that dawned rather slowly was that there was actually a second depot opposite the first – smaller, different architecture and different livery (relics of).

A historic marker helpfully advised that the east/west route through the town had been constructed first by the Georgia Railroad, but that subsequently the Central Railroad of Georgia had built a line north/south which intersected at Madison. The two lines were actually parallel through the station area with the two companies' buildings almost opposite each other. At this point, although I have absolutely no ambition to build a US model, it struck me that I was looking at something that Ian Rice would describe as “modelgenic” - something around the turn of the century with modestly sized steam locos shifting the local cotton crop perhaps?

Wandering up to the former Central of Georgia depot, I thought that I could make out some sort of dieselly thing at the end of a loop, surrounded by bogie hoppers,

so, following a path, and without passing anything to suggest that I should not be there, I wandered up to have a look. As it turned out, there were actually three diesels. Don't ask me what they were, because I really don't do diesels – least of all American ones, but for those who care, the attached photos, cross referenced to the Great Walton Railroad website  (or possibly the Squaw Creek Southern), may explain all.

Reading the websites, it looks as though there is some latter day, Georgian version of Colonel Stephens, struggling to operate a group of local shortlines – in this case short sections of the former Georgia Railroad route, to the immediate north and south of Madison. So again, a modeller of present day practice might find something “modelgenic” to stimulate the imagination.

Best wishes

Eric

Edited June 12, 2014 by burgundy

[Adrian Wintle]

According to the website:

 

8395 is a GP10

4537 is a GP9

 

But 8795 isn't listed. It is a much more interesting beast - a SD40T-2 tunnel motor, ex-UP (it is so useful when shortlines just re-use the previous running number). It has close to twice the HP of either of the other two.

 

Adrian

Edited August 13, 2013 by Adrian Wintle

[Dr. John]

8395 appears to be a former Wiregrass Central locomotive that served in neighboring Alabama. Both 8395 and 4537 are rebuilds from EMD GP-7 or GP-9 models (lowered short hoods, new electricals and air filters), making them 50+ years old. These rebuilds (most work done in Paducah, Kentucky) were once commonplace on railroad in the southern USA. Now they are a vanishing breed, even on shortline railroads. 8795 is an unusual find for Georgia. It is an EMD SD-40T2, a "tunnel motor" unit once owned either by either the Denver & Rio Grande or the Southern Pacific before both lines were absorbed by the Union Pacific. This unit still retains most of the UP livery. They were called "tunnel motors" due to the low intakes along the rear of the long hood. Ostensibly, these units were better suited for the long tunnels in the mountainous west and able to draw cooler air with the low intakes. I'm not sure how well this worked in practice.

 

Very interesting finds!

Edited August 13, 2013 by Dr. John

[burgundy]

Marietta is about 20 miles north west from the centre of Atlanta and is now subsumed into the suburban sprawl. In 1862, it was the first stop on the Western and Atlantic Railroad, which ran from Atlanta to Chattenooga, about 138 miles. During the Civil War the railroad, which had opened in the early 1840s, was a critical supply route for the Confederacy and subsequently a line of advance for the Union armies approaching Atlanta. 
Marietta was also the starting point for the Great Locomotive Chase of 1862, which, for those unfamiliar with the story, is described here.
While staying in the area recently, we have taken the opportunity to visit some of the sites that featured in the story and the first couple of photos feature Marietta, where the raiders stayed overnight and boarded the train the following morning. The immediate area around the railroad station has survived and been preserved, so that the former hotel where the raiders stayed

and the station itself can be visited (it is the visitor centre).

Just to prove that the line is still in intensive use, these three large diesels thundered through at about 30mph, blotting out the view for some minutes.

Also on show is a relic of a local locomotive builder.

8 miles up the line at Big Shanty (now Kennesaw), the train stopped to allow passengers to take breakfast, at which point, the raiders hijacked the train and set off northwards. Kennesaw is now home to the Southern Museum of Civil War and Locomotive History.
This includes not only a display of the Glover Machine Works (see above), but also the “original” General. Sadly, the loco is displayed in the sort of gloom (reinforced with “no flash photography” signs) that you normally associate with a gothic cathedral, protecting medieval works of art. It is therefore rather difficult to take reasonable photos but the linked website should give the overall impression. 

The first thought that occurs is to wonder how much of the civil war period General is still there. This photo is alleged to show the General towards the end of the civil war, having evidently been cremated.

All woodwork has gone (e.g. the cab), but also noticable is the footplate, extending from the pilot back to the cab. This would have required a fairly major rebuild to return to service and possibly at this stage the original 3 dome (2 steam and 1 sand) would have been replaced by a 2 dome version (one of each). Sometime in the 1880s, the historic significance of the loco was recognised which may have involved some further work and finally in 1964, it received another makeover to operating condition for the centenary of the civil war. In short, the appearance of the loco is almost certainly fairly different to its original appearance.
The second point to occur, as a modeller, is the absence of frames. I knew that American locos were built with bar frames – rather than the plate frames that were typically used in Europe – but I had not thought through the implications. Visually, the driving wheels are securely anchored to the firebox, but, forward from the leading axle, there seems to be very little to hold the leading bogie in place, other than its linkage to the cylinder black/smokebox.

Finally, in the lobby to the museum are three very fine O gauge models of three of the locos involved in the Chase. They have been donated by SMR Trains.

Best wishes

Eric

[pH]

Here are a couple of pictures taken in Marietta in autumn 2000. The first is of the plaque outside the Kennesaw House shown in Eric's pictures:

 

 

The second is a Norfolk Southern train passing through, with a Union Pacific unit (GE B30-7A, I believe) in the lead:

 

[F-UnitMad]

Thanks for posting, Eric - some interesting pics & history there.... but I have to say - you must be made of strong stuff Sir - if the pics in your first post can't move you to model US outline, nothing will...!!!

[trisonic]

Agree. The USA is “blessed” with small shortlines all over the country.

 

By the way in the town that I live in New Jersey there are plenty of houses built prior to 1776, under British/Crown rule.

 

Best, Pete.

[Adrian Wintle]

Marietta is also well known in the aerospce industry as the home of Lockheed-Martin. It was in this context that I visited, fairly early in the F-22 program.

 

The CSX locos appear to be an ES44DC (5462), a C40-8W (7650) and a GP40-2 (if that is 6442).

 

Adrian

[pointstaken]

By the way in the town that I live in New Jersey there are plenty of houses built prior to 1776, under British/Crown rule.

 

Best, Pete.

Which reminds me - aren't there some tax arrears to collect ? Someone mentioned a "Tea Party" up near Boston. HMRC had better get moving!

 

Dennis

Edited June 13, 2014 by pointstaken

[CVSNE]

Last time a bunch of fellows in redcoats showed up to collect taxes it didn't end well .... for anybody!

[F-UnitMad]

Which reminds me - aren't there some tax arrears to collect ? Someone mentioned a "Tea Party" up near Boston. HMRC had better get moving! Dennis

In the immortal words of Mr Banks in "Mary Poppins", the tea was thrown into the river - "thus making it un-drinkable; even for Americans"

 

I always liked that line....

[Adrian Wintle]

The thing I hadn't really noticed in the first set was the Canadian Wheat Board covered hopper - a uniquely Canadian-pattern 4550cu.ft. grain hopper built by National Steel Car in the '70s and '80s (1983-84 in the red Canada scheme). The 'inverted-A' framing on the straight end sheet is a distinguishing feature of this pattern of car. It is probably now in CN or CP ownership rather than CWB - CN or CP reporting mark rather than CNWX or CPWX, but it is a long way from where they are usually seen.

 

Adrian

Edited June 13, 2014 by Adrian Wintle

[burgundy]

Thanks for posting, Eric - some interesting pics & history there.... but I have to say - you must be made of strong stuff Sir - if the pics in your first post can't move you to model US outline, nothing will...!!!

You mean something like this?

Best wishes

Eric

[Glorious NSE]

The thing I hadn't really noticed in the first set was the Canadian Wheat Board covered hopper - a uniquely Canadian-pattern 4550cu.ft. grain hopper built by National Steel Car in the '70s and '80s (1983-84 in the red Canada scheme). The 'inverted-A' framing on the straight end sheet is a distinguishing feature of this pattern of car. It is probably now in CN or CP ownership rather than CWB - CN or CP reporting mark rather than CNWX or CPWX, but it is a long way from where they are usually seen.

 

Wonder if the industry in the corner of the shots is a mill receiving wheat from more Northerly climes?

 

Lots now seem to be simply CN or CP cars (that ones a CP clicking on the closeup) and do seem to wander on the systems - remember neither of them are now purely Canadian railroads, with the CN getting as far south as the gulf of Mexico!

[Jeff Smith]

I lived in Marietta from 1995 until 2010 (yes and worked with Lockheed) Americans, even other Georgians, are always identified as not being a local by the way they pronounce Marietta - it is May-retta......

 

By the way, some great photos in this thread.

Edited June 13, 2014 by Jeff Smith

[Adrian Wintle]

Wonder if the industry in the corner of the shots is a mill receiving wheat from more Northerly climes?

 

Lots now seem to be simply CN or CP cars (that ones a CP clicking on the closeup) and do seem to wander on the systems - remember neither of them are now purely Canadian railroads, with the CN getting as far south as the gulf of Mexico!

 

Yes, most of them were sold to the operating railroads - CNWX cars to CN and CPWX cars to CP. They are relatively small as grain cars go - the US versions of the same car (as modelled by Bachmann) have stepped end sheets and are 4650 cu.ft. cars. I have seen video of NS and CSX trains with one or two of these cars in them, so it isn't unheard of, just rare.

 

Adrian

[burgundy]

For those who are interested in this part of the world, this site shows some fascinating views of Atlanta just before General Sherman created a major urban redevelopment opportunity in 1864.

Best wishes

Eric

[Jeff Smith]

Yes, fascinating.

[burgundy]

Continuing to follow in the tracks of General Sherman, we spent a short break in Savannah, visiting the Historic District and sights; highly recommended and unlike any other US city that I have visited.
One of the features of the city is the Georgia State Railroad Museum which is located on the edge of the historic district and occupies a substantial area beside the Savannah History Museum and the Visitor Centre. The museum and visitor centre are actually located in the former terminus of the Central of Georgia Railroad, which has been restored and reused in a very imaginative way, including a Whistlestop Cafe that is built around two passenger cars and, inevitably, sells fried green tomatoes. The museum also includes a steam loco that appears to have escaped from the next door railroad museum, leaving its tender behind in the process.

This mural is inside the station building and gives an aerial view of the station as it was.

The roundhouse and loco shops are just out of scene top centre. This link
gives a different perspective which show both the station and the roundhouse.

Just outside the former railroad station is a small park, commemorating the battle of Savannah in the American War of Independence, in which the French and American forces came a rather resounding second. The “English” army (made up primarily of a Highland regiment, some Hessians and a small detachment of Royal Marines) held off attacks on the defensive earthworks, of which an example has been reconstructed on an area that was previously part of the railroad yard. 

The Railroad museum itself consists of the former roundhouse and workshops of the former Central of Georgia railroad, which was built to link the port of Savannah with its hinterland, including Atlanta and its connections westwards. Given its strategic significance, it received the full benefit of General Sherman's march through Georgia, where the technique of wrapping rail around convenient trees to render it useless was perfected (Sherman's neckties).
The museum is a curious mixture. Firstly, its website does little to sell the attraction. The site is on the edge of a major tourist area with a considerable amount of ground and a surprising number of surviving buildings, given that the loco shops closed over 50 years ago. The signage is very informative and the guide was excellent – and added a lot by explaining the use of the various buildings and the history of some of the vehicles. From a railway enthusiasts point of view, however, there is not really a huge amount there – certainly not as much as the amount of space would suggest.

The roundhouse layout does not lend itself to photography (other than the outside end) and, in fact, the one main line steam loco was completely inaccessible (apparently with work going on). I am afraid that small diesel shunters do not really excite me and so my attention was mostly drawn to the passenger cars that were on display. Again, the verdict is mixed. There are some genuinely historic vehicles in the collection – but they have survived by being used as “business cars” (fitted out for the use of company officials) and so are not representative of normal passenger stock.

There was also evidence of some serious restoration work on Georgia Railroad No 67, which possibly dates back to the 1880s. This vehicle had been used as static accommodation since WW2 and still retains evidence of partitions and fittings to meet the Jim Crow Laws, requiring racial segregation until 1965.

The freight cars in the roundhouse are gangwayed through and have been fitted out with a series of displays and videos which were well done.
The former workshop facilities include the rather spectacular chimney, which combined the exhaust from the boiler house, with the water tank and, immediately below, the showers and toilets.

Elsewhere, the machine shop has been outfitted with some illustrative machinery which is demonstrated using electric power and belt drive. A sample of early rail caught my attention, with – top to bottom – strap rail (you can just see the flat strip starting half way along the shelf), U section rail (bridge rail) and I section rail (flatbottomed rail); note the size of the 70lb rail on the right.
   
Easy to overlook would be the HO model railroad, featuring a recognizable replica of the Savannah waterfront – with a UP Mallet running through...... The N gauge layout was being reconstructed.

All in all, lots of potential, still some way to go, but worth the visit.

Best wishes

Eric

[Jeff Smith]

Eric - Excellent trip report, I must try and get there next time I'm in Savannah, although most of my trips there are to Gulfstream at the airport and tend to be in and out. Did you visit the Eighth Air Force Museum while in Savannah?  It deals mainly with WW2 operations in East Anglia.

 

The piece of rail with #70 written on top looks unevenly worn......

[burgundy]

Geoff

I am afraid that we missed out on the 8th Air Force museum; we spent most of our time on foot in and around the historic district.

If you look closely at the photo of the various sections of rail, the small I section is not only worn but quite large chunks have flaked off the sides of the top section.

Best wishes

Eric    

[Jeff Smith]

The early bridge and I section rail is probably manufactured from very poor quality material and has not stood the test of time - probably buried for much of its life before recovery for display.

[burgundy]

Driving through Atlanta on Wednesday evening, heading for the airport on the way home, we passed the AMTRAK station for Atlanta (which seems to be some way from anywhere in the city). In one of  those fleeting glimpses, I saw what looked like a four unit A-B-B-A set of F units lettered for Norfolk Southern, followed by some heavyweight coaches.
Can anyone tell me, please, what I saw?
Best wishes
Eric

[Adrian Wintle]

You saw the Norfolk Southern office car train.

 

Adrian

[2996 Victor]

A sample of early rail caught my attention, with – top to bottom – strap rail (you can just see the flat strip starting half way along the shelf), U section rail (bridge rail) and I section rail (flatbottomed rail); note the size of the 70lb rail on the right.

Rail.JPG   

 

Bit of a thread resurrection!

 

Very interested by the bridge rail - I wasn't aware that the great Isambard Kingdom Brunel visited the United States during his lifetime! But seriously, the bridge rail looks visually identical to that used by the Great Western Railway in the UK in it's broad gauge days. But how was it laid? Was it cross-tied or laid on longitudinal baulks?

 

Fascinating thread for me as I'm only recently indulging an interest in the US scene, and among other things the role of the railroads in the Civil War.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

Edited September 30, 2017 by 2996 Victor