Chrisr40 Posted January 10, 2010 Share Posted January 10, 2010 Hi My layout was built with DC in mind but I now have a number of dcc sound locos for which I bought a dcc 70 black box system. The layout has 3 seperate running lines outer middle and inner which are isolatd from each other by dead frog points. Overtime i have aquired another black box and an ez command which means I could have one for each circuit - I have resisted the option of going totally dcc as the majority of my locos arent equipped and funds are limited as I guess they are for everyone right now. Basically my question is - if I have each controller set up with its own circuit of track and I want to move from the middle to the outer for example and then isolate the middle once I have completed the move ( without stopping the loco and powering down middle then up the outer loop ) am I at risk of causing mortal damage by having the 2 circuits powered at the same time with or without isolating rail joiners on the points ? additionally what risk is there to the loco of crossing from the control of one controller to the other - am I right in thinking that the chip will only take the power its told to ? apologies if this is rambly or plain ignorant but I think the snow has got to my bonce. Thanks for any advice or thoughts - p.s ez command is inner the middle and outer will be dcc/ dc via my black boxes and an HM Duette - selectable via switch Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted January 10, 2010 Share Posted January 10, 2010 The same question was asked on the previous RMweb, and it was agreed it's a recipe for terminal damage. It also goes against one of the basic principles of DCC in having one command station controlling the whole layout. One possible way would be to have a long connecting track between the two loops with double isolating fishplates at each end, and a DPDT switch so the track could be energised from each EZ command unit, a bit like the double gates into a safari park. You would still have to ensure the switchable section was longer than any train as even a metal wheelset bridging the gap could cause damage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisr40 Posted January 10, 2010 Author Share Posted January 10, 2010 thanks 298 - at least I now know that I have to operate it in a particular way - ie move to the other circuit and then power down on the previous circuits controller then power up on the new one. Tedious but if its that or blue smoke hell then I know which I choose. thanks again Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted January 10, 2010 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 10, 2010 Sorry Chris,really can't help on this one. However I'm contemplating something similar and wondered how you found the dcc 70 black box. Good control over sound locos? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisr40 Posted January 10, 2010 Author Share Posted January 10, 2010 Sorry Chris,really can't help on this one. However I'm contemplating something similar and wondered how you found the dcc 70 black box. Good control over sound locos? Hello Legend - I bought mine when they first came out - surprisingly since then the prices have actually gone up ...? Its does what it says on the tin and I have no complaints ..but given the choice I would use the Bachmann ez command instead. Less messing about wiring wise if you want to run dcc and dc because all you do when you want to run dc is to unplug the ex command and plug in a standard Bachmann dc controller using same power supply and same contacts to track. Notice I havent said use the ez commands ability to support 1 dc loco as the awful humming noise it causes the loco to emmit scares the bejeeezus out of me and a fiver or so for a spare controller isnt that bad a price to pay for peace of mind. Overall I think the ez command option works out a bit cheaper than the black box and if you do eventually go wholly dcc its a reliable robust little unit - unless you want to get clever and change cv's etc. Note - saw last week that there is a new version of the unit from gaugemaster - similar concept except that it doesnt need a power source to feed it - its a standalone dcc and dc controller - advertised on signal box web page if thats of any help. Hope that helps Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted January 10, 2010 Share Posted January 10, 2010 Note - saw last week that there is a new version of the unit from gaugemaster - similar concept except that it doesnt need a power source to feed it - its a standalone dcc and dc controller ... The new unit is the DCC75, which is a re-badged MRC Tech 6 Sound Controller 2.0 - marketed in the UK under the Gaugemaster brand. As you say, it's a combined DC controller and Black Box type, limited DCC control unit. There's a thread about this in Products - Smaller Suppliers.... http://www.rmweb.co....lack-box-dcc75/ As you say, it may make more sense to just switch between DC and a DCC system like the EZ-Command; however although dirt cheap (??39) that system has a limited number of functions and you may not be able to access all the sounds available on the sound decoder. A Dynamis or other system may be a better option. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzie Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 ? Overtime i have aquired another black box and an ez command which means I could have one for each circuit - I have resisted the option of going totally dcc as the majority of my locos arent equipped and funds are limited as I guess they are for everyone right now. It looks like you have a different scenario to most people who ask this question - where the issue is getting a DCC loco from a DCC section of layout to a DC one. Since when you are moving DC locos between circuits you are already geared up for it and know what you are doing - you only really need to think about how you are going to move the DCC locos. The best way of doing it is to have a double pole switch for each circuit to switch between the existing DC controller and a single DCC system. Assuming that you are happy with your EZ-Command system it will just require you to replace the black boxes with two additional E-Z command companions (assuming that you have three operators, if it is just you driving they may not be required). Since all circuits will be running from the same single command station (rather than the three that you have currently) you will just have to switch the adjacent circuits to 'DCC' and drive the DCC loco seemlessly across. The biggest shortcoming you will have is that the E-Z command will only provide 1 Amp of power which will probably be inadequate for three sound locos so you will probably need to budget for a booster to increase to power output from your E-Z command (or perhaps upgrade it to a higher powered system like a 4 Amp Roco MultiMaus - especially worth thinking about if you aim to have more than nine locos and want to use all the functions!). Hopefully the proceeds from the sale of the redundant black boxes will buy a booster and a couple of E-Z Command companions or a Multimaus. It is important to remember that with DCC you only need one controller per operator rather than one per running train as in DC. Even with the E-Z command you can set one train running and then select another train to drive. As with your existing scenario you must be very careful to ensure that you do not drive a DC train into a DCC area and vice-versa. Probably worth putting a 21W 12V bulb in series with the output of each DC controller to prevent any possible damage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisr40 Posted January 11, 2010 Author Share Posted January 11, 2010 thank you for your advice suzie - I need to digest and see if I can implement what you are suggesting. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzie Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 thank you for your advice suzie - I need to digest and see if I can implement what you are suggesting. If you can publish a track plan there may be some wiring simplifications that will make it even easier. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisr40 Posted January 11, 2010 Author Share Posted January 11, 2010 Hello Suzie I dont have an electronic version available - I did put a sketch on the old forum but it has changed subtley on the inner loop since then. If you search for posts by dwayne pipe on the previous rmweb you may find it Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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