Ebay's Global Shipping Program

[Adrian Wintle]

Not my experience. I made the mistake of buying an item on this basis, but as far as I can see the inflated price I paid all went to ebay, not to Pitney Bowes or any Government. The seller, who told me he received about $11 of the $30 I paid, simply packed the goods and sent them off as normal. No evidence of Pitney Bowes being involved, and there was no declaration of tax paid on the envelope, which came normal post. A dirty great scam.

 

Mine very definitely had two payments and the tracking showed it going to Pitney Bowes and then to Canada.

 

Adrian

[ZiderHead]

Converted to sterling at the Paypal rate for the transaction:

Item cost = £192.62

International Shipping = £14.25 (quite reasonable really)

Import Charges = £57.50

Total Paid = £264.37

 

Theoretical cost by 'traditional' method:

Item + Shipping = £206.87

VAT payable = £41.37

Collection Charge = £8.00

Total = £256.24

 

So the Global Shipping Program has cost approximately £8 more

 

What was the Customs Duty rate for this item? (Its above the threshold)

[PGH]

What was the Customs Duty rate for this item? (Its above the threshold)

 

There is no Customs Duty at the moment on model railway items imported from the US, just import VAT at 20%.  

[Horsetan]

Not my experience. I made the mistake of buying an item on this basis, but as far as I can see the inflated price I paid all went to ebay, not to Pitney Bowes or any Government. The seller, who told me he received about $11 of the $30 I paid, simply packed the goods and sent them off as normal. No evidence of Pitney Bowes being involved, and there was no declaration of tax paid on the envelope, which came normal post. A dirty great scam.

 

I've only bought one item from the US under this eBay GSP thing, and as nobody here stocked it I didn't think I really had a choice.

 

Anyhow, the total I was shown at close of auction had a basic breakdown of the postage and import duty. I had no idea of Pitney Bowes sticking its oar in, and neither did the seller, until I had paid and the seller queried the amount he had received in respect of postage. Via eBay messaging, we both slowly realised that the money he had received was sufficient to cover forwarding the parcel to Pitney Bowes in KY, whilst Pitney Bowes hoovered up the rest of the money I had paid in order to cover its cut as well as import duty before slinging the parcel back into the postal system.

 

The item arrived here in less than 10 days. I can't really complain as I wasn't charged anything further.

[knobhead]

I've made a couple of purchases through the Global Shipping Program (to Sweden from the US) It worked just fine. Maybe a few quid dearer, but it didn't get stuck in customs thus getting to me a little quicker.

 

Regards,

 

Stefan

[Talltim]

I wonder if Ebay/Pitney Bowes make their money on this by reducing the apparent postage cost so they have to pay less VAT at this end while still charging the full postage cost?

[Andy Reichert]

US international postal charges to the UK can be calculated in advance on their website if you dig through all the pages entering the size and weight, etc.

 

www.usps.com.

 

If someone is really stuck trying to get a US mail order item to the UK, I'd be willing to try out being a forwarder.  You'd still have to fork out VAT and the customs fee  at the UK end if the value was over about $20.00.

 

Andy

[mabel]

So, if I understand this correctly (re the non GSP method), if I buy an item that is less than 15 gbp, then I wont be held to ransom for the rip off 8 quid 'handling fee? That the fee is ONLY applied to items that royal mail / parceforce have had to pay (my) vat on?

I have been buying items from America for about 10 yrs now, on and off, and it has been a lottery as to whether I paid duties,and how much.   I have had many a heated discussion with royal mail over the years re the processing charge. I have also had different accounts as to why it is charged. I accept that vat has to be paid, and if Im lucky, my parcel slips under the radar, but I object to the £8 handling fee.  

T

[Andy Reichert]

So, if I understand this correctly (re the non GSP method), if I buy an item that is less than 15 gbp, then I wont be held to ransom for the rip off 8 quid 'handling fee? That the fee is ONLY applied to items that royal mail / parceforce have had to pay (my) vat on?

I have been buying items from America for about 10 yrs now, on and off, and it has been a lottery as to whether I paid duties,and how much.   I have had many a heated discussion with royal mail over the years re the processing charge. I have also had different accounts as to why it is charged. I accept that vat has to be paid, and if Im lucky, my parcel slips under the radar, but I object to the £8 handling fee.  

T

 

Pretty much yes. Below the limit you won't get the fee, nor any VAT applied.

 

The  8 UKP (inspection fee) is basically a private excessively disproportionate tax that selectively does immense harm to small SIG suppliers like myself, while having little effect on larger businesses that supply more expensive items.

 

Andy

[Steve-e]

Hi,

 

Just to make you aware Ebay UK are starting this system which may be good news to those abroad that want to buy items from the UK but are currently told UK only.

 

The email I received from them suggested that I will be auto-enrolled in the next few weeks. I chose to ignore the email links but checked out through the Ebay message system by logging on and it is a genuine scheme (still log on to check it out rather than follow email links).  I certainly would use it as there is no extra cost to me and there seems to be plenty of protection for sellers for lost / late items.

 

I'm not sure why I got the message it says its selectiv invites perhaps its because I have posted to Spain and France before.

 

Anyway heres some details of how it works...

 

http://portal.ebay.co.uk/gsp/

 

 

Steve

 

 

[dullsteamer]

I do wish that people would get away from this idea that paying VAT on imports is some kind of fine or 'ransom', after all if you purchased something in this country the shopkeeper would'nt let you take it away without paying the VAT.

So what justification is there to tax a sale made in another country?

 

I've read this thread with some interest, as the situation in Australia regarding GST on overseas purchases may change. At present no GST is charged on overseas purchases under the value of AUD$1000. But lately a lot of big box retailers have been lobbying the federal government to lower that threshold to as low as AUD$20. Apparently they think that will make them more competitive against online sellers overseas. So at present there is no incentive for most model buyers in Australia to use eBay's GSP, but if our government caves on this issue, that will probably change.

 

The only things I currently buy from overseas are models railway items that I can't source locally. If the big box retailers are successful in their lobbying efforts, I'll start buying as much as I possibly can from overseas just to spite them.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[mabel]

Hi,

 

Just to make you aware Ebay UK are starting this system which may be good news to those abroad that want to buy items from the UK but are currently told UK only.

 

The email I received from them suggested that I will be auto-enrolled in the next few weeks. I chose to ignore the email links but checked out through the Ebay message system by logging on and it is a genuine scheme (still log on to check it out rather than follow email links).  I certainly would use it as there is no extra cost to me and there seems to be plenty of protection for sellers for lost / late items.

 

I'm not sure why I got the message it says its selectiv invites perhaps its because I have posted to Spain and France before.

 

Anyway heres some details of how it works...

 

http://portal.ebay.co.uk/gsp/

 

 

Steve

Steve,

Its a bit of a rip off Im affraid, in my experience. There is a threshold where no import duty is paid, and a different thresh for vat.

 Ebay's global partnership system or whatever they call it (which is run by a private outside of ebay company) charges an extortionate amount which includes (I think....), handling, import duty and tax.

I can only speak from experience buying from the US where this system is gradually rolling out. Some items that shouldnt have duty or tax applied actually DO have it applied.....to excess. I now avoid sellers promoting this system. I prefer to cut out ebay alltogether now in most cases. The companys that handle this system for ebay are obviously taking their cut from these charges, which may explain the higher cost.

Tony

[Steve-e]

Ok thanks for that. Probably needs more looking into.

Cheers

[mabel]

See Olddudders post above for actual cost example of the extortion / rip off I was refering to ^^^^^^^^^^^

T

[hayfield]

Quite apt this thread has just surfaced again. I have just sold a loco to someone in Germany, happy to post abroad providing buyer pays the extra costs to me.

 

UK postage is £4.50 and going on what I have paid before I may have gambled on it not being lost  and sent small packet Airmail at an additional cost of £3.50. Belt and braces would have been another £8

 

Now what has happened is that he has paid me £4.50 and the shipping company another £11.47 and there is no tax to pay/reclaim. For me as a seller its so easy, recorded delivery to agent. Once with them its all down to them for losses/damage

[shortliner]

But surely he should not have needed to pay customs duty between UK and Germany - both in the Common Market - so he wound up paying considerably more than he needed.

[mabel]

Exactly Shortliner ! And why would you send recorded delivery to an 'Agent' (middle man raking their bit off the top), when you can post direct to Germany, or any where for that matter, from the same Post Office counter? All insurance or recorded delivery options are available exactly the same as the 'Agent'.......

[Pugsley]

But surely he should not have needed to pay customs duty between UK and Germany - both in the Common Market - so he wound up paying considerably more than he needed.

Possibly not, but the buyer must have been happy to pay those charges as they decided to buy the item!

[Pugsley]

Quite apt this thread has just surfaced again. I have just sold a loco to someone in Germany, happy to post abroad providing buyer pays the extra costs to me.

 

UK postage is £4.50 and going on what I have paid before I may have gambled on it not being lost  and sent small packet Airmail at an additional cost of £3.50. Belt and braces would have been another £8

 

Now what has happened is that he has paid me £4.50 and the shipping company another £11.47 and there is no tax to pay/reclaim. For me as a seller its so easy, recorded delivery to agent. Once with them its all down to them for losses/damage

I have also recently shipped a loco to Germany using this system and again, I'm quite happy with how it all worked.  I would have sent the loco to Germany outside of the system if the buyer had asked, I've shipped stuff to France, Portugal and Australia before, but they must have been happy with the costs provided by Ebay.

[admiles]

If ebay GSP system is applying any form of VAT or Import duties to items sent from the UK to another EU member state that's just downright fraud!  You'd have to be mad to ship using the GSP to an EU country.

[mikjd]

Hi all - I've been a follower of this forum for some time, but as yet I've not commented on any threads. I've tried to resist commenting on this one as there seem to be some strange ideas about, but here goes ....

I model US O scale and so getting items tends to mean from the US unless I'm very lucky.

 

I've used the GSP many times over the last couple of years, and am happy with the service I've received. As with any purchase if you do the math first then you know what you are letting yourself in for. Sometimes it's cheaper than USPS etc sometimes it's not. The tracking I find is more detailed than USPS for instance, and larger parcels do appear to be quicker. The agent in the UK, 13-Ten (part of Citipost) are very good with queries from my experience (only needed them twice), as I recently had a parcel lost in the Yodel meltdown before xmas.

 

As for specifics:

 

There are times when it is not cost effective: particularly multiple items from one seller (as has been mentioned) but when that's the case I've asked if the seller would post direct to me using USPS.

The US seller receives their US postage rate as they would from a US buyer (it's included in the International postal charge we see), the remainder covers the International element.

The import charges cover the VAT (due on value over £15) and a 'handling charge'. The VAT is supposed to be due on the item plus shipping cost. The handling charge appears to be lower than RM/Parcelforce.

Items with free US postage are often a bargain as you only pay the international element (which on its own is usually less than USPS etc would charge).

Listings which contain multiple items are usually cheaper to post using the GSP, certain sellers often have job lots of freight cars, and the postal cost is often 50% of that from USPS etc. For instance I've just bought 10 Weaver cars and paid $29 International shipping thru the GSP (of which $10 was the US postal price paid to the seller). A single lightweight Weaver car going by the cheapest USPS transatlantic rate would cost $26 !! on its own.

There does not seem at first sight to be any logic behind the International postal charge rates, but if comparing identical listings remember it includes the US postal element, which can vary considerably between sellers (and is the reason post free US deals are good).

Many US sellers don't realise their listing under the GSP until you buy something, but for them it's just the same as selling to someone in the US, simple.

Another quirk with the system is with items under the £15 VAT level. If as has been mentioned before you buy more than one item from the same seller they are not combined and you pay the postage on each. However if they are VAT free, but combined they would be due VAT then by each deal being separate (and therefore posted separately) VAT does not get charged. The calculation to be done is whether the extra postal cost is less than the VAT and handling charge due if they were combined.

 

In retrospect it may be that due to the size and weight of O scale locos and cars that the GSP is often cheaper.

 

Cutting out a middle man sounds great, but if it means you paying more .....

 

The simple answer is to use the most cost effective method, which may or may not be the GSP. It just seems daft to me to dismiss it out of hand because of some prejudice or conspiracy theory.

 

 

Mick.

[hayfield]

My point to a certain degree was one of cost, I will quite happily post abroad and only charge the difference between airmail and first class post on top of my normal postage rate (in fact I do loose out on 13% which Ebay and Paypal charge). Now the chap still pays my normal postage, as I have to post the item to the carrier, and has additionally has to pay the carriers charge.

 

As I said earlier all I have to do is get it to the carrier and as I used recorded delivery this should be easy to prove. Now its down to the carrier to get it to Germany and if it gets lost or damaged its up to them, not me.  I am better off thanks to the buyer paying someone else to do the donkey work. I just feel a bit sorry for the buyer

[mabel]

Pugsley, you are missing the point. Of course you are happy as a seller. The ebay gsp doesnt affect you. You get paid your selling price plus whatever you charge for p&p.

The point that you and others are missing is the buyers arent necessarily happy with the postal charge as (in my experience AND that of others who have contributed to this thread) the quoted figure can at times be as much as 50% more when you go to check out. Too late by then as you have already commited to buy. The gsp figure quoted in the sellers listing is an estimate.

As for mikjd response, I do not dismiss the gsp out of some conspiracy theory. My statements on this thread relate to actual experiences as a buyer and user of the system. I buy a lot of kit from the US, some small (detail items, decals, etc) and some large (3 locos and 4 freight cars in one box). I always check what shipping methods are available....obviously! To date, the ebay gsp figure (remember it is an estimate) has always been higher. Sometimes considerably. As I also stated before, the 'middle man' or Agent (call them what you will) are absolutely in business to make money, no different to any other business on the planet. Therefore there are two postal / shipping companys involved in the transaction, both trying to make an operating proffit.

At the end of the day, it is purely down to individual choice. I was just airing my opinion based on a couple of experiences I had, in the hope that others wouldnt be caught out the same way.

T

[Oldddudders]

I continue to avoid GSP sellers wherever possible. In 10 years and many transactions from the US to France, I have paid TVA (VAT) on no more than a handful of items, all of them over £100. This is a facility for sellers, not buyers, as far as I am concerned, and the readiness of others in this thread to use it for sales is no surprise. Should I find any EU seller trying the same scam, I will be forthright in my complaints to ebay and anyone else who listens.

[Pugsley]

Pugsley, you are missing the point. Of course you are happy as a seller. The ebay gsp doesnt affect you. You get paid your selling price plus whatever you charge for p&p.

The point that you and others are missing is the buyers arent necessarily happy with the postal charge as (in my experience AND that of others who have contributed to this thread) the quoted figure can at times be as much as 50% more when you go to check out.

I'm not missing any point whatsoever, I posted my positive experience of the scheme as a seller.  I also have a positive experience of the scheme as a buyer, where I managed to purchase something from the US that I couldn't obtain over here.  I weighed up the shipping costs quoted, there was no duty due to the value of the item, and I went ahead on that basis.

 

Clearly some buyers are happy with the shipping charges associated with this scheme, as they choose to buy items through it.  Just because you're not happy with it, doesn't mean that everyone else isn't either.