jcredfer Posted August 24, 2013 Author Share Posted August 24, 2013 What about ways to do the scenics ................ I think an answer might lie in the soil ....... Maybe not so new .. but not often seen ....... J Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcredfer Posted August 25, 2013 Author Share Posted August 25, 2013 Having looked at the Sandwich construction, it might be of interest to look at a couple of the ideas, I got from other modellers on Ballasting. ........ 1. First off the mark was the traditional [ with or without foam/cork, underlay ]:- apply glue around sleepers - scatter - wet - spray/pour thinned PVA etc ......... 2. Then there was the local Model Shop, who advised the quicker Gaugemaster Ballasted Underlay - glue or pin down? ........ 3. Shortly after that came Tracklay from a Poster on another Forum - stick track to it - pin/glue down - scatter Ballast onto the sticky, upper, surface - run glue along edges and camouflage with a little Ballast ........... 4. Imitation concrete/cobbles, with the track embedded in it - several materials suggested from Ply/Das/Plaster/foam etc ........... This is checking the track is in the right place and that the Droppers have matching holes........... Had a little help from some friends ........... DSCN2349 by JulianR 2013, on Flickr Are there any newer ideas, not represented here yet? ........... bearing in mind that weight is still a consideration ......... J Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CourthsVeil Posted August 25, 2013 Share Posted August 25, 2013 (edited) J, I use dark grey acrylic caulk (permanently elastic): push a bead onto the board, spread to the width of ballast shoulders, put track on top, press this very (!) lightly into the caulk and sprinkle ballast liberally on top. Tap a bit. Next day hoover the suplus ballast away. Done! Armin Edit = orthography Edited August 25, 2013 by CourthsVeil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcredfer Posted August 25, 2013 Author Share Posted August 25, 2013 Wow.... amazing ....... brilliant, Armin ........... Do you have a Caulk spreader to keep the thickness and width, the same along the route? J Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CourthsVeil Posted August 25, 2013 Share Posted August 25, 2013 (edited) J, I use a finely serrated trowel to spread the caulk. I don't believe in ballast shoulders drawn like a ruler (at least not in connection with older tracks – recent ones are another game). You can see a lot of pictures with quite varying width/slope of ballast. Edits added: the caulk method circumvents all problems arising from wetting card. And: when I really want regular ballast shoulders, I lay out masking tape along the track, spread the caulk and rip the tape off before adding ballast. Armin PS: Mind you – though I'm German, I'm not for Prussian order... A bit of sloppiness is my cuppa. Edited August 25, 2013 by CourthsVeil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaz Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 You sneaky devil, you snuck on here and finally posted. So did my parasite comment on the 12th Aug help the push? And I notice you are as dt says going under the radar. Your signature does not reflect your new home, if you had not replied to my pm and my title option...A muse with sandwiches (I thought long and hard on that and variants A Muse with sandwich and...) I would not have noticed for ages as my follow this topic list is massive, and you are of course now on it....no escape. Anyway am very happy to see your thread, and now know were to come give you a dig in the ribs I like in your thread the idea of matching two sheets in post 11, I just mentioned it to Kal and it may well solve a problem we are going to hit with our new rebuild. slide in teeth. Must go, will be back Say hi to min driver. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcredfer Posted August 26, 2013 Author Share Posted August 26, 2013 Hi Both, Nice to see you here........ ....................... I just mentioned it to Kal and it may well solve a problem ............ slide in teeth Before you pay vast amounts to your friendly local Vampire Dentist ....... I have also planned to use the same system for joining track at [mobile] Board joins and a long bridge. Sliding interlocking tongues for each end of a bridge and the same on both ends of a removable 6" section of track, bridging the Boards, where they join..... Milk Slope Connect Diagrams by JulianR 2013, on Flickr I may use 3 x 1cm interlocking lengths of Balsa, or small Ply tongues ....... On the other hand I might go back to flying r/c planes, it could be easier ............... J Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Todd Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 (edited) On the other hand I might go back to flying r/c planes, it could be easier ..... Yeah.......!! Drone,....on Baby.......... ................... .. Edited August 26, 2013 by David Todd Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaz Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 Hi Both, Nice to see you here........ ....................... Hey if I'm the cat your suspicious of......I could just to to stick to offering ratings......like...agree.....funny.....disagree Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcredfer Posted August 27, 2013 Author Share Posted August 27, 2013 Nothing much wrong with cats ............ ......I could just to stick to offering ratings............like...agree.....funny.....disagree ........ ......... ................ but that would be very boring .......... .................................................. and rather difficult to stick to .......... Back OT .... I use a finely serrated trowel to spread the caulk. I don't believe in ballast shoulders drawn like a ruler (at least not in connection with older tracks – recent ones are another game). You can see a lot of pictures with quite varying width/slope of ballast. I must give this a go, it is so simple, Mini Driver might have fun at it too ...... ..... on second thoughts, her "fun" might be ......... J Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaz Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 (edited) I've seen your work.......how bad can mini driver be? seriously? look forward to seeing the results...........................yeah yeah this from a woman who offers to not say another word........ .....but YOU opened that door..... Edited August 27, 2013 by Jaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcredfer Posted August 27, 2013 Author Share Posted August 27, 2013 I've seen your work.......how bad can mini driver be? If you must know ... I just don't want to get shown up .......... ...........................yeah yeah this from a woman who offers to not say another word........ ...... ..... Some things are difficult ................... others ................................ impossible .......................... ok .... I go now ............ J Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcredfer Posted August 29, 2013 Author Share Posted August 29, 2013 I had a mind for a new Loco, but not for this Shunting Table. The opportunity came up and is pretty limited, so it was grab-while-it-is-there ..... Well, here's the new [proud] Pappa Prince ........... Pappa visit 6 by JulianR 2013, on Flickr Wg Co isn't best pleased, he is rather concerned about all that weight on his Sidings .......... Pappa visit 2 by JulianR 2013, on Flickr but more so because of who drove up, in that old Standard car ........... another dent in the wallet, now his old man is in the retired home ......... Pappa Prince came with a packet of luggage .... as they tend to ......... Pappa luggage 2 by JulianR 2013, on Flickr Most of the stuff included is pretty obvious .... Vacuum pipes, Steam pipes, a spare coupling, etc ........ Has anyone got any idea what the Black Box is and there is a screw, which appears to match the bit that sticks out, at top right of the Box ......... .... and those 8 things that look like Monkey Wrenches [8 might be something to do with Bogies?] .... Oh dear ... more trouble on the Horizon, for the Wg Co's wallet .................... that Pink painted apparition is his daughter back from holidays ....... ..... what's the betting she is skint again ............ .............. and is in need of funds for the nice RAC man who got the Hippie Van going again ......... Pappa visit 3 by JulianR 2013, on Flickr Poor old Wg Co ..... problems, problems ....... Still, if he can't take a joke, he shouldn't have joined! .......... J 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcredfer Posted August 30, 2013 Author Share Posted August 30, 2013 Well!! .................... as if yesterday wasn't enough ............... They are still here and he had to take them out last night as rations had not been requisitioned, due to the unexpected nature of their visits. His wallet's taking a right bashing ................... Now, some bright spark at the Monastery for Dunces, has had yet another "bright idea". ................. Simply decided, out of the blue and without asking him ........... what a good idea if the blokes could have Training Courses which involved the older Steam jobbies ....... just in case they get involved in a dust-up somewhere in the world that has older Locos ....... particularly as the Gov't are beating their chests about Syracistan over the last few days ..... Wouldn't do to get caught wrong footed, would it now ................. "Old Bean" .................... DSC_0295 by JulianR 2013, on Flickr Quite where they found that old WD 94 from, is probably best not asked ............... probably Olies Renovation Yard ........ you can bet it ran to yet another overspend ........... Why didn't they ask him .... a quick look on Flea-sands could have got them something just the same ....... nothing a coat of paint couldn't fix ................. Oh, no they couldn't do that, could they ... had to be a recovered exWD machine, 'cause some cleaner recently found some of the old servicing Manuals in a Barrack Block at Bordon ........... I reckon that's where the Desk-Pilot got the Steam idea from .......... DSC_0299 by JulianR 2013, on Flickr He's a bit more cheerful now he had a bit closer look ......... seems to run ok, despite being a bit creaky ........ not half as noisy as the one he put 6 flat tyres on back in the 60s ......... ... the Instructor wasn't very polite about that either ............ it has Digital Control Communication fitted too, which will fit in with the Yard Control System ............. one less problem Missing a rear Tension Lock 'though ..... Olies Renovation Yard were quick to say they will pack a spare one up and send it over ........ ... best let the engineer guys know what is coming their way .......... Poor old Wg Co ............. still hasn't worked out where he will get to coal from, let alone how to load it ........... He reckons on using the old Fire engine from behind the Mess to get water to it .......... MoD wouldn't fund any more building .... "You'll figure out some way round it Old Bean" .......... he hates being called that ..... At least that 47 trotted off for some running in trials and an Electronics update ....... Just a thought OT ......... an idea from the Dover layout about the Caulk spreading ..... simply take a normal tile-caulk spreader and knock off a few teeth in the middle - to the width you want the Ballast So simple and easy to do ................................................................................... and it has to be said - cheap ........ Thanks go to doverferries for that one. ttfn J 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Todd Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 an idea from the Dover ... layout Thanks go to doverferries thread for that one. now.......David Todd. Hmmm....!!. Copying,......again ...R******.........wear this pointy hat, go stand in the corner.............while I eat this apple you brought me for lunch........... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaz Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 I plan to 'borrow' I mean copy an idea from J where does that leave me??? A pointy hat? I still got my halloween one. An apple? you would eat an apple from a person who wears a pointy hat? Have you not heard of sleeping beauty? Plus check for little black marks where a grub got in Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 Hi The black box is an enclosure for a speaker. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcredfer Posted August 30, 2013 Author Share Posted August 30, 2013 You are most welcome to the accolade for your idea dt ........... .... although it only just "scraped" in ........ She of the pointy hat might recall that this Thread [tenuously thin 'though it may be] is to air new ideas, which in some cases might not be entirely new elsewhere .... you are therefore most welcome to use any ideas here .................... [Please don't send apples with thanks.... ] Kal, thank you for the information on the Spkr Enclosure. It isn't shown on the accompanying paperwork, nor are those 8 little black bits.I though they might be Sand Pipes, but there are already parts of the Bogies that look like they might be them. I tried to model Upland grass too .............. the sort of bits that are left after the Sheep have had their share ....... Just Vacuum the layout after the various shades of grass and soil have been applied and left to dry ....... DSC_0297 by JulianR 2013, on Flickr Empty the contents of the Vacuum receptacle into a bowl and then shake it slightly ...... J Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaz Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 J Regards the Wing Commander, and his hippie daughter.......are you sure she is not going out with the RAC man on the sly? Apparently his RAC bike has been seen parked by her van on quite a few occasions.....maybe she needs a newer vehicle, or a complete overhaul. I believe you did mention when he visited arboretum valley in the past that he looked a bit lacking in clothes........... I believe his bike is in the nearby bushes. Considering that new outrageous bikini she is just about wearing...perhaps they should be in the bushes...........ah oh no I agree perhaps not a good suggestion YIKES!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcredfer Posted August 31, 2013 Author Share Posted August 31, 2013 Blimey, that was quick ................. Missing a rear Tension Lock 'though ..... Olies Renovation Yard were quick to say they will pack a spare one up and send it over ........ Olies Renovation Yard, spare Tension Lock arrived this morning ....... Wg Co only emailed them yesterday ............. Wg Co is feeling much better as the WO, Workshops came in especially on his weekend to fit it, and has just informed the Old Man that "His hook is well and truly slung." Wg Co wasn't sure about a bit of insubordination there but let it go, as good WO, Engineering [steam] are hard to find .......... Anyway he thought it would be a good idea to go and show interest in the work on the Loco, especially as the WO had come in on Saturday ......... .......... nothing, of course, to do with getting his wallet away from those visitors ...... and the RAC guy was still at it too ......... DSC_0296 by JulianR 2013, on Flickr Mind you the sight of Mrs WO Eng, with a Gin in hand is enough to get any bloke wanting an excuse to do a bit of Saturday work ....... J Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 Not sure if this is still the innovative techniques thread or the ellipses thread, but... I'd been idly contemplating plywood baseboards, but custom formed rather than constructed from sheet. Using formers and a vacuum bag you can make very light and strong structures. Watching a recent documentary on the Mosquito made me revisit the idea. Ideally you could sculpt the entire 3D landscape as a ply skin, an advantage over the skinned foam method which give you the 'flat earth' issue. You could even go more hi tech and built the same skin up using carbon fibre sheets in resin! (I had a similar idea 20 years ago when I had a fibreglass leg cast, I thought, why not use this material instead of Mod Roc (plaster impregnated bandage)?) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
artizen Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 Getting back to the idea of a piece of foam laminated both sides with thin ply............................ I purchased 12mm plywood yesterday for bench tops but they already have a slight wave in them ---- so I thought about what set this whole thread off and I am now contemplating using foam with ply as a bench top as the weight of any object placed on it is minimal, only big bruisers at shows knocking it would cause damage. Food for thought but damaging to the wallet --- about four times the cost of 12mm ply and I need 10. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcredfer Posted September 1, 2013 Author Share Posted September 1, 2013 (edited) HI Tim, I like your idea of laminates for sloping scenery, how does that go with complex curves, rather than flat of simple single curve? I will try to find more information, is the film you watched available anywhere? Carbon Fibre is used in a/c quite widely and has the advantage of easy shaping, to a mould. Carbon Tow, a loose bundle length of carbon fibre is very strong when glued to Balsa too. Nice to see you back, Artizen. You are right about the 3mm ply lying flat as the foam and the Sandwich being resistant to moving. Having stood on the Sandwich, to test it, I can vouch for its resistance to even the Circus Show Clowns efforts. It might be relevant to you to make up the Boards in slightly longer runs, as they would be much lighter than the standard framed ones. I could weigh the 4' x 2' 6" one for you, to get an idea of how much weight various sizes might be. J Edit to add Carbon fibre comment [Duh] Edited September 1, 2013 by jcredfer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 (edited) Ply can be formed in three dimension to a small extent, think 60s ply chairs, but I'm not sure you could mould it in three dimension enough to get a very detailed landscape, I suppose the geology would define the suitability of the technique. If, for example you were modelling a section of the Dawlish sea wall the cross section of the land along the length of the baseboards is pretty constant and the shape of the formed plywood provides the strength and scenery base instead of the scenery formers adding weight. However, my original thoughts were about more of a hollow monocoque standard shaped baseboard and I got carried away. The program was http://www.channel4.com/programmes/the-plane-that-saved-britain/episode-guide, still on 4OD I think. Edited September 1, 2013 by Talltim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
artizen Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 I spent $70 for two sheets of 12mm plywood cut to 1190x590mm (total eight panels). I need 10 panels. If I go with the foam sandwich the cost is $21 per 25mm sheet (provides two panels). 3mm plywood would work out at around $22 per sheet (four panels). So I would need five sheets of 3mm plywood and five sheets of foam. Total over $200 v $70. So OK only three times the cost but at this point the 12mm plywood exists here in the garage so it will get used regardless. I expect it to be troublesome though and if finances allow, and the concept of the CKD shop I am building for shows actually works, then I will reconsider for next year's round of shows which will start around April (end of summer). Before then I would really like to incorporate a flat screen TV and overhead LED lighting. I am willing to trial the sandwich method on the next railway layout though. My current foam base with timber underneath, weighs less than 2.5kg for a module of 1200x600mm. I would imagine the ply/foam/ply sandwich would be much stronger, allow wiring through it and be less susceptible to damage as I am finding the current boards get damaged when leaned against things or something falls on the foam. Even so, I will have to cover the top surface with cardboard as it can be glued to the foam with PVA. Then I can glue scenery formers from rigid PVC sheet which needs superglue. Interesting times!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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