The "Strategic Reserve"?

[Rumblestripe]

Does anyone else recall the myth of the "Strategic Reserve"?

 

As I recall the thinking was that in some tunnel on an abandonned line, or in a warehouse in a lost Industrial Estate, there was a stock of steam locomotives stored there in the late 1960s in case we were held to ransome by some cabal of oil producing states! It was alovely idea, row upon row of serviceable steamers sitting there like the Arc of the Convenant in Raiders of the lost Arc, just waiting for the call. Some folk went as far as suggesting that there was hundreds of "missing" locos which were never scrapped. Mostly this was due to gaps in teh official records where locos were scrapped with indecent haste and missing paperwork.

 

Please tell me I wasn't the only one who heard this! I'm sure a couple of magazines covered the speculation at the time!

 

Who knows perhaps it is true and in a few years all will be revealed... line upon line of dusty but serviceable chuffers...

[pointstaken]

Bit like the fabled "El Dorado", and just about as credible!

 

Dennis

[Dudley Dodger]

I so much wish as that were true. probably kept in those in-situ but out of use lines.

[Chameleon]

It's a famous urban myth that one. Because there were gaps in records etc, people assumed they still existed. Think it was more of a cold war thing in case the oil ran out.

One of those "wouldn't it be great if" sorta wishful thinking. If it were true, I'm pretty sure someone, somewhere would have spilled the beans by now as a reserve that large would have been known about is some circles.

[Allegheny1600]

Undoubtably purely a myth albeit a good one for us guys!

However, thinking about it - it would have made some sense really. They certainly did stockpile old steam locos in out of the way sidings in eastern Europe - i know as i was on a cycle trip from Krakau (Poland) to Budapest (Hungary) in 1990 and came across a load of old steamers in southern Poland one day - must dig out my pictures! I'm fairly sure that there are still sidings full of old steam locos in the former USSR.

Yes, it was the time of the cold war when we were busy getting rid of our steamers but if the 'baloon had gone up' and the USSR had invaded - they would have either blockaded our oil supplies or nuked us with the result of NO diesel locos! And certainly, no electrics for that matter!

Had much of the UK infrastructure survived, steam locos would have been ideal transportation with home grown fuel and no wiring to have been melted in EMP.

That said, the retention of all of our original networks of railways would have been of equally vital importance to our strategic transportation requirements in such circumstances.

So; did the politicians of the day KNOW that - come an invasion from the east we would a; All fry or b; Immediately surrender?

.

.

Plenty of food for the "what if" brigade there!

Cheers,

John E.

[Dudley Dodger]

Sort of like king arthur and his knights will rescue britain in an hour of need. maybe it refers to the southern locos? or the saint class?

[The Stationmaster]

here we go again

 

It creeps out every now and again and seems to get embroidered with all sorts of bits and pieces like all myths and fancies. A number of mainland European railways retained a reserve fleet of steam engines when they converted to diesel/electric although in some cases (e.g the USSR) locos were often retained in local traffic use long after the network had officially done away with steam.

 

The idea grew up among enthusiasts that such a reserve had been created in Britain and it is basically a lot more based on myth and wishful thinking than on the facts of what actually did happen (probably because the paperwork has either been lost or was purposely 'lost' at the time anything to do with 'steam' was banished well out of site).

 

So yes, at one time there really was going to be a 'strategic reserve' on BR (although I don't know if it was actually called that) but it was cancelled when it was realised that it would cost too much and basically be of very little use as steam loco servicing facilities had already vanished from a large chunk of the network and there weren't enough locos left to establish a sensible size fleet to meet the most basic of national network needs. The depots where the reserve was to be based were not hidden under mountains or at the end of remote branchlines but were near to a trunk route and were existing loco depots (which was rather obvious when you think about the facilities needed to operate a steam loco).

 

And that's all there really was to it.

[Michael Delamar]

we did have one

 

Barry scrapyard

 

for future tourist industry when we get rid of lots of other industries

 

Mike

[Hammer]

It's a great story, but given we've passed through at least one oil crisis and have had most Cold War facilities of that type declassified without hearing anything about it, it's clear it is just a story.

 

It's linked to two different real life facilities - the Box Hill Tunnel and the Burlington Nuclear 'City', with it proposed that either of these hid (or even continues to hide) a selection of Austerity 2-10-0s and Stanier 8 and 9Fs. There were probably a few military reseve locos kicking about, but I suspect they were more likely to be at Longmoor or such like, and a far cry from the 60-200 engines that the stories talk about.

 

Given the Freedom of Information Act, anyone that was particularly interested in it could always submit an FOI request about contingency planning in the 50s and 60s and the railways. You'd probably get the information if you gave them enough time.

[The Stationmaster]

It's a great story, but given we've passed through at least one oil crisis and have had most Cold War facilities of that type declassified without hearing anything about it, it's clear it is just a story.

 

It's linked to two different real life facilities - the Box Hill Tunnel and the Burlington Nuclear 'City', with it proposed that either of these hid (or even continues to hide) a selection of Austerity 2-10-0s and Stanier 8 and 9Fs. There were probably a few military reseve locos kicking about, but I suspect they were more likely to be at Longmoor or such like, and a far cry from the 60-200 engines that the stories talk about.

 

Given the Freedom of Information Act, anyone that was particularly interested in it could always submit an FOI request about contingency planning in the 50s and 60s and the railways. You'd probably get the information if you gave them enough time.

 

 

I doubt you'd find anything (see my comments above) unless you could precisely name the BRB files involved - assuming they were allowed to remain in existence. And knowing BR's ability to 'lose' files which might at some later date contain something which isn't really relevant - or might be embarassing - and can therefore be 'lost' without worry or conscience I'd be surprised if anything comes to light as specific files.

 

There is a possible source which might contain clues but I don't know how the Region concerned dealt with what I have in mind and equally I don't know if a load of financial files would be considered 'historically important' and have avoided going for salvage.

[Hammer]

I doubt you'd find anything (see my comments above) unless you could precisely name the BRB files involved - assuming they were allowed to remain in existence. And knowing BR's ability to 'lose' files which might at some later date contain something which isn't really relevant - or might be embarassing - and can therefore be 'lost' without worry or conscience I'd be surprised if anything comes to light as specific files.

 

There is a possible source which might contain clues but I don't know how the Region concerned dealt with what I have in mind and equally I don't know if a load of financial files would be considered 'historically important' and have avoided going for salvage.

 

I was thinking as a strategic matter, the request would be better submitted to the MoD rather then whoever is in charge of Transport these days. Of course, the relevant stuff may already be in the national archives, in which case all you need is a lot of time and patience.

[The Stationmaster]

I was thinking as a strategic matter, the request would be better submitted to the MoD rather then whoever is in charge of Transport these days. Of course, the relevant stuff may already be in the national archives, in which case all you need is a lot of time and patience.

 

Waste of time going to the MoD unless you want to know about how many Sentinel etc diesels and redundant 0-6-0ts they had in stock. The BR 'strategic reserve' (whatever it was called or going to be called) was purely a BR matter that was to be funded out of BR money - until someone realised that spending it on retaining part of the steam age might not only be seen as a bad investment but actually was one when many parts of the system were still crying out for modernisation.

 

The only possible clue to anything might lie in the fact that, so I was told years ago, some of the money that had been budgetted was actually spent, but not very much of it.

[plarailfan]

I doubt if a strategic reserve existed as such, a few loco's may secretly have been sidelined, out of sight for a few years, and then quietly scrapped in the mid to late 1970's. There was a strategic reserve 'command train' stored at Craven Arms and coaches from this set went into preservation during the 70's. The strategic reserve steam loco theory falls apart when you look around the rail network after 1968, - nearly all the watering and coal facilities were very quickly removed or demolished, meaning any strategic traction would have to be coaled and watered in the, often, less efficient methods that steam hauled railtours use today. The world has changed so much, especially with the bias towards road transport, that I can't imagine a line of 9F's or whatever, rusting away in a damp tunnel somewhere!! When you see a story of this nature in a train mag, just have a check to see if it's the April issue, - a clue it's a wind-up!!!!!

[cb900f]

I remember an article in the defunct magazine "Steam Railway" and I don't remember it being an April issue. With regards to having a strategic reserve, well thats a bit too forward thinking for this country.

 

Pete

[steam-driven boy]

Hi,

This is sure to be another of those stories that keep coming back time and again, there was extensive comment on RMweb3 (no link at present for obvious reasons ) sparked by Punt PI on BBC Radio 4 - Steve Punt of comedy duo Punt and Dennis who continue to entertain (well me anyway ) on things like 'The Now Show'

 

Regards, Gerry.

[beast66606]

I thought all (or at least 99%) of steam locos had been accounted for ??

 

DBS have, for the sake of argument, 200 66s, Freightliner have another 100, GBR and DRS and Colas have say another 50 between them - so that gives about 350 active locos and that's just for freight, add several hundred more for passenger use - so assuming any strategic reserve was planned to do anything apart from move the PM or Royals around it would need the best part of 1000 locos to be able to provide any form of "reserve" - as StationMaster has already said there is no infrastructure (either the track or the refueling facilities) in place to support steam locos, look at the steam specials which need their water replenishing from road mounted syphons, hows that going to work with several hundred locos moving around the system ?

 

This thread should be in W&S as there is no basis (other than plans that StationMaster mentions) of fact.

[polybear]

My local decent timber yard (Enfield Timber) has had until recently a continental steam loco parked just inside the perimeter fence for all to see when travelling the road between enfield highway and edmonton.

 

Some years ago (probably 10+) there was a feature about it in the local paper. From what i remember the timber yard owner was a train enthusiast, who managed to purchase the loco from one of the Scandinavian countries (Norway I think?). It was being sold off by the military - they had a stock of them in case of war etc. The view being that oil supplies could be a problem, but one thing that Norway do have is plently of wood....

 

He went to collect it from an underground complex with armed guards etc. I can't remember if it was a one-off loco or if they had a stack of them (probably the latter - one wouldn't help much).

 

Enfield Timber was sold off about 1-2 years ago now - the loco was moved sometime last year on a sunday morning. Apparently the road was closed all day, which pleased the locals no end. Not sure where the loco went to - does anyone know? The owner had another timber yard along the southend road - that also had a loco outside but I'm not sure of the origins. It was moved sometime ago - one of the staff at the enfield branch said it was moved following a fatal car accident outside - a driver watching the loco and not the road maybe?

 

Next time I go to the timber yard I'll ask if anyone there has a copy of the original newspaper article and get a photocopy if I can.

 

HTH

 

Brian

[Long Line]

As mentioned, to use kettles as an auxilary transport service in the event of a short term crisis, would be strategically difficult, although not impossible to implement.. re the distribution/availability of crews,coal,water etc and the benefits for effort would be questionable. Accordingly deisel power would be the more practical solution...provided we had some diesel that is!

 

However we do possess a reserve of steam loco's... on our heritage railways and in our transport museums? And in the unlikely event that the balloon were to go up (WW3 style!) you could well see the empowered regional governors, requisitioning these along with their depots and any spares and crews remaining.

 

Anyway, never mind railway engines we don't even have a strategic reserve of food any more!.. it was sold off in the nineties! and there is lots more of this kind of depressing end of civilisation stuff on the 'Subterranea Britannica' web-site, for those with a sufficiently morbid fascination.

 

Mark

[pointstaken]

It's a "six-pack" hidden under the workbench away from SWMBO's eagle eye.

 

Dennis

[McGomez]

I came across this site a few months ago whilst work was a bit slow. I know I found it through a link from another website as the story of 47216/47299 intigued me (see the story "Is this locomotive jinxed"). Then I started to read the rest. See "The Strategic Reserve Refuses To Die" obviously. Not much work came in that day as I read the lot.

 

http://www.angelfire...e/Contents.html

 

Regards.

[bike2steam]

I dunno about myth, but along with Roswell, it must go down as one of the biggest lies of the twentieth century.

Just the anorak brigade living in vain hope. First it was some where in Herefordshire, then Box Tunnel, then a long forgot tunnel some where in Scotland

[Colin]

I remember some of the original articles about this - one was possibly in the first ever issue of "Steam World". The big credibility gap is surely the types which were mentioned such as GWR Granges - good locos in their day but red route availability (limited to main lines) and with inside valve gear, hardly the easiest to maintain I'd suggest.

If there had been tales of various WD 2-8-0s/2-10-0s, 8Fs, 9Fs or possibly other BR Standards going "missing" then it might have been more believable.

[Fat Controller]

My local decent timber yard (Enfield Timber) has had until recently a continental steam loco parked just inside the perimeter fence for all to see when travelling the road between enfield highway and edmonton.

 

Some years ago (probably 10+) there was a feature about it in the local paper. From what i remember the timber yard owner was a train enthusiast, who managed to purchase the loco from one of the Scandinavian countries (Norway I think?). It was being sold off by the military - they had a stock of them in case of war etc. The view being that oil supplies could be a problem, but one thing that Norway do have is plently of wood....

 

He went to collect it from an underground complex with armed guards etc. I can't remember if it was a one-off loco or if they had a stack of them (probably the latter - one wouldn't help much).

 

Enfield Timber was sold off about 1-2 years ago now - the loco was moved sometime last year on a sunday morning. Apparently the road was closed all day, which pleased the locals no end. Not sure where the loco went to - does anyone know? The owner had another timber yard along the southend road - that also had a loco outside but I'm not sure of the origins. It was moved sometime ago - one of the staff at the enfield branch said it was moved following a fatal car accident outside - a driver watching the loco and not the road maybe?

 

Next time I go to the timber yard I'll ask if anyone there has a copy of the original newspaper article and get a photocopy if I can.

 

HTH

 

Brian

If I'm not mistaken, the locos were Finnish in origin, and thus not much use as part of any sort of Strategic Reserve as they were both too large in loading gauge, and built to Russian broad gauge. Perhaps ironically, they had been sold off when the Finnish government decided to get rid of its (real) Strategic Reserve...

[David_S.]

Most of the mainline stations round my (Finnish) way have steam trains parked outside, some of which have been known to run in recent times, I believe. There is always a sense of something missing when they are steamed as there is no smell of coal, just burning wood.

[polybear]

If I'm not mistaken, the locos were Finnish in origin, and thus not much use as part of any sort of Strategic Reserve as they were both too large in loading gauge, and built to Russian broad gauge. Perhaps ironically, they had been sold off when the Finnish government decided to get rid of its (real) Strategic Reserve...

 

Sorry - perhaps I didn't make this clear. Mr Enfield Timber purchased it from the Finnish Government, so that would make sense as the loco would've been part of the Finnish Strategic Reserve (assuming they had one of course ).

 

A Google found the following info:

 

An interesting slightly broad-gauge industrial railway steam locomotive from Finland can be seen from the public road at a timber yard in Enfield Highway. The Enfield Timber Company, 1-23 Hertford Road, has on display an 0-6-0 side tank locomotive with outside cylinders built in 1927 by Oy Tampella A/B, Tampere, works number 373. The locomotive carries a running number 792 and is called HEN. It is fitted with a huge balloon spark-arrester chimney so presumably was intended to work, appropriately, on forest lines. The grid reference of the timber yard is TQ 352 966. The railway gauge the engine was built to run on is 1,524mm, which we would call five feet.

 

Brian