4 SUB Unit 4377, Bulleid 2 HAP upgrade - plus all matters third rail.

[Colin parks]

Dear Colin

 

This is a fantastic build and truly represents the prototype. I have been following your builds with admiration and it has inspired me to improve my own modelling. I will miss not having one of your builds to follow but I am sure that the move to p4 will be successful and will produce an impressive layout. Though I would be interested in seeing you tackle a 313. I am running out of superlatives to describe your work so I'll just say good luck for the future.

 

kind regards

 

David

Many thanks David.

 

It end to think that spending five months on one 4-car unit has put a lot of people off, so it's good to hear the contrary is true in your case. Not much will be happening for quite a while after this, so be patient with the layout and other projects.

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[HAB]

.... This will be the last project for the foreseeable future, ...

 

Spectacular!

 

Having had a go at a single all-steel trailer, I well know just how much work there is on display in these pics!  I think you have well earned yourself a break from all our attentions here and, if I were you, I would be putting my modelling feet up for a while - (whilst pushing on with the planning for the all-new-Newhaven of course!)

 

Many thanks for a fascinating thread to get to this point. (not to mention the COR, the HAL, the HAP......!!)

 

Best wishes,

[crompton 33]

Colin. the sidings at the north quay have been relayed for the incinertor use The marine station only see's one train a day each way to Brighton now. Class 313's run all the time on this line only class 377's run when there is a football match on at felmer.

[Budgie]

All the right coaches but not necessarily in the right order (with apologies to Morecambe and Wise).

 

DMBS S 10939 S

 

IMG_7321.JPG

 

...

 

Colin

 

(Edit: Oops! Just noticed I have forgotten to put the van door handles on. Still not quite finished then!)

Another slight problem: the GUARD transfer should be on the left-hand door of the pair, which is the door the guard used most of the time (i.e. the left-hand door had to be opened before the right-hand door).

[Colin parks]

Colin. the sidings at the north quay have been relayed for the incinertor use The marine station only see's one train a day each way to Brighton now. Class 313's run all the time on this line only class 377's run when there is a football match on at felmer.

Ah, but we can always dream Crompton 33!

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[Colin parks]

Another slight problem: the GUARD transfer should be on the left-hand door of the pair, which is the door the guard used most of the time (i.e. the left-hand door had to be opened before the right-hand door).

Well spotted Budgie! I'll put it on the 'to-do' list.

 

All the best,

 

Colin

Edited January 27, 2014 by Colin parks

[FourSUB]

Congratulations Colin, I am impressed with your ability and patience in turning out so many identical detail parts. It certainly looks like the 4-SUBs I watched and travelled on for so many years. Most noticeable from platform level as a train arrived was Bulleid's curved side, the never ending row of commode handles and as it slowed the inner coach ends with the single buffer all captured so well on your model. Don't forget the greasy patch the buffer slid on! The view of 4-SUBs from bridge parapets was a familiar sight too with the now distant memory of lookouts, ventilators and conduits with their inter-coach connections that are all there.

 

If this sounds like an outbreak of nostalgia it certainly is, thank you.

 

Graham

[pwr]

Hi Paul,I certainly like the idea of building either one of the workmanlike 313 class or the very handsome 377 class units. What I really need to do first is to build a new layout which can accommodate all the EMUs I already have.The idea is to stick with a Newhaven area theme, as believe it or not little has changed in the infrastructure there apart from lifting of sidings and some replacement of signals since the late sixties (and I can always 're-instate' some sidings as I believe has already happened with the advent of the north Quay incinerator.All the best,Colin

I still have those bogie frames suitable for the 313 if you are interested.

 

Paul R

[5Bel]

Hi Colin,

 

The completed unit looks brilliant. I like the yellow handrails, they are quite distinctive. What we need as SR modellers is a supplier of good seated passengers, or even just the top half, to populate our EMU's. Once again brilliant work.

 

Cheers for now, Ian.

[Budgie]

Not just seated passengers, but legions of standing folk as well. I remember those 4SUBS and they were usually exceedingly packed the nearer they got to their London terminus.

[Colin parks]

I still have those bogie frames suitable for the 313 if you are interested.

 

Paul R

Hi Paul,

 

Perhaps one day I will take you up on the offer!

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[Colin parks]

Hi Colin,

 

The completed unit looks brilliant. I like the yellow handrails, they are quite distinctive. What we need as SR modellers is a supplier of good seated passengers, or even just the top half, to populate our EMU's. Once again brilliant work.

 

Cheers for now, Ian.

Thanks Ian,

 

I have always baulked at the idea of adding passengers to EMUs as the numbers required for a busy train would be huge!

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[Colin parks]

Not just seated passengers, but legions of standing folk as well. I remember those 4SUBS and they were usually exceedingly packed the nearer they got to their London terminus.

Well Budgie, at least I don't model the SR inner suburban system! 

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[Budgie]

I have always baulked at the idea of adding passengers to EMUs as the numbers required for a busy train would be huge!

Indeed. So the people who supply coach interiors could also supply passengers in groups of three and two to sit on their seats, already painted overall in their most likely colour (i.e. dark grey for city suits) so only the little details need to be picked out, and not much of those because you can't see much inside a coach that's full of passengers.

Edited January 27, 2014 by Budgie

[Colin parks]

 

Hi Colin,

 

For all my EMUs, DMUs I now try to standardize on Black Beetle wheels. In my view, although relatively expensive, there is nothing finer available.

 

My like of the things was down to an experiment on the old Matford at the first Taunton members day, when 'Kempenfelt' (of this parish) hand pushed at speed, four Bach Mk1s fitted with them up a siding which we never used because everything that went up it always fell off. It was a rising grade, check railed curve, with a board joint, which needed completely relaying. I was astonished when this was repeated successfully several times with hand pushing and at speed. They were also fitted with Bill Bedford springing which obviously did help, though I tried it again at home with my BB fitted Mk1s but using Gibbo wheels and they still fell off!

 

Hi John,

 

The more I look into P4 and all its aspects, the more I realise that all P4 wheels are not the same.   You prefer BB wheelsets, Howard has mentioned that he has standardised on Ultrascale products and I have even read now of someone who uses widened EM wheels running on P4 track.   I have had 'dark thoughts' about this: why not have slightly deeper flanges and not have to worry about things staying on the rails?!  For me, the track is the thing that has to look right, I don't look at the wheels that much! 

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[10800]

Especially when those flanges quickly decrease even more with crud, meaning you have to have a diligent cleaning regime.

[Colin parks]

Another SUperB model, Colin  . Craftsmanship par excellence.

 

Many thanks for these past five months of education and entertainment.

 

(Also, thanks for the head-code's plug...... I must admit to being sidetracked, recently*. I'll have to get back there and finish it

 

*A new project has arisen. Namely, the newly formed Bournemouth West Model Railway Group. More on this later, hopefully.)

 

All the best,

 

Frank.

Hi Frank,

 

I found the head codes very useful .  Here is the link for anyone who doesn't know http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/73227-sr-brs-emu-route-numbers/page-2

 

At the risk of repeating myself here is how the stencils were produced:

 

The  image was downloaded then printed onto photo paper, copied the photo image reducing the image by 40% (that figure could be different on another  printer) using ordinary 80gsm white paper.  I also tried matt photo paper, but the result was no better in terms of sharpness.  Finally the printed paper image was covered with a strip of Sellotape.  This makes the black denser and cutting out the individual numerals much easier.  When cutting, the knife is best used to chop through the paper with downward pressure only, as if punching the numeral out one side at a time.  Drawing the knife blade across the paper to slice through left a ragged or 'pulled' edge on the Sellotape.

 

I had kindly been given some etched stencils by Judge Dread, but the head code boxes on the 4 SUB were so thin, the etched brass would had laid proud of the surround, so paper was the best option.

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[Colin parks]

Especially when those flanges quickly decrease even more with crud, meaning you have to have a diligent cleaning regime.

Now you are just scaring me 10800. 

 

I only had there hour's  sleep before the Tonbridge show last year due to worrying about my (00) layout's performance.  Exhibiting a P4 layout sounds like there will be no sleep at all then! 

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[Budgie]

I only had there hour's  sleep before the Tonbridge show last year due to worrying about my (00) layout's performance.  Exhibiting a P4 layout sounds like there will be no sleep at all then!

I don't know why you were so worried. When I saw your layout at Tonbridge it ran perfectly.

[Tigermoth]

Colin, when you go to P4 you just apply the same method as you have with building the units, take your time and do it right, you'll get there.

[Judge Dread]

Been there, done that, and realised there's more to life. Stress is a big killer. You must learn to delegate Colin. When something goes wrong on the layout, announce in a loud voice, "It must be my turn to go and get the tea!" If you are on your way back to the layout from lunch and you realise nothing is moving, go back to the dining room and have another coffee. 

Seriously, clam down and laugh off any disasters and make notes. The first time is unfortunate, the second is poor planning.

[Colin parks]

Been there, done that, and realised there's more to life. Stress is a big killer. You must learn to delegate Colin. When something goes wrong on the layout, announce in a loud voice, "It must be my turn to go and get the tea!" If you are on your way back to the layout from lunch and you realise nothing is moving, go back to the dining room and have another coffee. 

Seriously, clam down and laugh off any disasters and make notes. The first time is unfortunate, the second is poor planning.

Hi John,

 

Thanks for your advice.  I certainly did delegate at Tonbridge, as I hardly operated the layout at all!  However, I am acutely aware that people come to see layouts running well at exhibitions and have always striven to achieve that.  The thing I am taking note of now is the potential pitfalls of very fine tolerance modelling.  It won't stop me but you need to know the hazards in order to avoid them. My initial research is risk of derailment due to gauge narrowing and tie bar failure on points fitted with near-scale components (though Howard has the solution to the latter problem).

 

By the way re. 'going to get the tea': I seem to remember meeting you in the operators' tea room at DEMU a few years ago when you were exhibiting Meopham. You weren't hiding from something were you?!

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[HAB]

Hi John,

 

The more I look into P4 and all its aspects, the more I realise that all P4 wheels are not the same.   You prefer BB wheelsets, Howard has mentioned that he has standardised on Ultrascale products and I have even read now of someone who uses widened EM wheels running on P4 track.   I have had 'dark thoughts' about this: why not have slightly deeper flanges and not have to worry about things staying on the rails?!  For me, the track is the thing that has to look right, I don't look at the wheels that much! 

 

All the best,

 

Colin

 

Oh dear - lots of scary things about P4 hereabouts - and from some people who should know better as well!

 

In truth it is Exactoscale wheels I use most these days - they are scale width which means almost no filing away of plastic from the insides of Hornby motor bogies! But Ultrascale wheels are also excellent, very accurate and are really easy to fit to Hornby motor bogie axles - but delivery times can be lengthy...  To be honest, "the others" I would steer clear off - their only advantage is cheapness. and crud collection is only one of their faults...

 

Now what you must remember Mr. Parks, is that 00 wheels stay on the track DESPITE their deep flanges - not because of them. I have said it before and I say it again - anyone who builds EMUs like these has nothing to fear from P4.  So lets have no more about EM flanges

 

Best wishes,

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi John,

 

Thanks for your advice.  I certainly did delegate at Tonbridge, as I hardly operated the layout at all!  However, I am acutely aware that people come to see layouts running well at exhibitions and have always striven to achieve that.  The thing I am taking note of now is the potential pitfalls of very fine tolerance modelling.  It won't stop me but you need to know the hazards in order to avoid them. My initial research is risk of derailment due to gauge narrowing and tie bar failure on points fitted with near-scale components (though Howard has the solution to the latter problem).

 

By the way re. 'going to get the tea': I seem to remember meeting you in the operators' tea room at DEMU a few years ago when you were exhibiting Meopham. You weren't hiding from something were you?!

 

All the best,

 

Colin

Hi Colin

 

I always step back and let my fiends do the driving when I take a layout of mine to a show.

 

1, I can always operate it any time I like at home, my friends cannot therefore why spoil their fun.

 

2, I am there in case/when anything goes wrong. (also see point 4, John is not the only one)

 

3, I am free to answer any questions that the public may ask.

 

4, As I am normally controller free I keep the gang well supplied with tea and coffee. I even have an exhibition T shirt with "TEA BOY" on the front. It is quite strange that it is time for another tea if a situation as in point 2 happens.

 

5, Comments like "He might have built it but cannot drive it" by my mates gives an indication of how good I am at operating, hence all the above points.

 

It is great when you see someone drive your layout as you planned and even better when they do prototypical moves that you hadn't even thought of.

Edited January 27, 2014 by Clive Mortimore

[Colin parks]

Oh dear - lots of scary things about P4 hereabouts - and from some people who should know better as well!

 

In truth it is Exactoscale wheels I use most these days - they are scale width which means almost no filing away of plastic from the insides of Hornby motor bogies! But Ultrascale wheels are also excellent, very accurate and are really easy to fit to Hornby motor bogie axles - but delivery times can be lengthy...  To be honest, "the others" I would steer clear off - their only advantage is cheapness. and crud collection is only one of their faults...

 

Now what you must remember Mr. Parks, is that 00 wheels stay on the track DESPITE their deep flanges - not because of them. I have said it before and I say it again - anyone who builds EMUs like these has nothing to fear from P4.  So lets have no more about EM flanges

 

Best wishes,

Sorry Howard, I won't think these thoughts again!

 

I have a feeling that correct weighting of stock is going to go a long way to keeping things reliable.  It also occurs to me that mixing standards is playing with fire, so forgive me for just thinking aloud about the next step.

 

All the best,

 

Colin