Southernboy Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 As usual I'm following with interest and learning what lessons I can as you go Colin. I bet there was a degree of trepidation with those first incisions! Either way good luck with what I'm sure will be another absolute winner and inspiration to us all Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted April 9, 2014 Author Share Posted April 9, 2014 Your bravery knows no bounds Colin and you were right to take the plunge; the result is far better than the original and that was impressive enough. That you were able to do this is testimony to your skill and to the soundness of the original construction. Bet you'll be relieved to see it done though. Adam Thanks Adam, Brave or reckless, this was a job that either had to be done or otherwise condemn the models to sit in a box, not fit to be seen in public with the 4 SUB! All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted April 9, 2014 Author Share Posted April 9, 2014 Looks good Colin. Are you making different coaches or are they an upgrade? My knowledge of things past 1930ish on railways could be written on a stamp. Hi Peter, The coaches are an upgraded version of the same prototype design. I had made the mistake of trusting plans which turned out to be wrong in many respects. I had built the two units before photos by dasatcopthorne and a vey good dimensioned photo by Ceptic came along. These units should have identical window shape and depth to those of the 4 SUB I have just built and the Tin HAL which was built a while ago. Added to that, these models had home-made flush glazing which was a press-fit in the window opening and was liable to fall out unless handled carefully. All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted April 9, 2014 Author Share Posted April 9, 2014 Phew Colin, there isn't a button for 'big sigh of relief'! Good job they hand a proper cantrail rainstrip though. Hi Bernard, The cantrail strip did help tremendously in the successful removal of the old sides. I was surprised at how tough the body shells were and the end joints put up a lot of resistance to being parted. The worst is behind me now, with just the making good of the side to end joints to be done. Then there really will be a sigh of relief! All the best, Colin 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted April 9, 2014 Author Share Posted April 9, 2014 As usual I'm following with interest and learning what lessons I can as you go Colin. I bet there was a degree of trepidation with those first incisions! Either way good luck with what I'm sure will be another absolute winner and inspiration to us all Mark Thanks Mark, As I said before, I don't envisage having to do this sort of thing again. It really was the fact that the window shape and depth was wrong that drove me to do this. All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted April 10, 2014 Author Share Posted April 10, 2014 (edited) Almost finished the bodies, with just some remedial work to do around the cab side windows which have been altered as they were a tad too deep. An interesting thing cropped up when I looked at dasatcopthorne's photos of 2 HAPs in service. There was a bit of window framing which I hadn't noticed before. I seem to have omitted this from the toilet window of the Tin HAL. Ho hum! Next up is painting and finishing. It will be nice to see these 2 HAP units along side the 4 SUB as the windows are now truly the same shape-phew! Colin Edited April 13, 2014 by Colin parks 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAB Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 Colin, It is looking excellent - very well done, we can all stop holding our breath now... The tops of the doors look to have have come out rather well. I am sure you will have already spotted the missing hinge... It will look very nice in Green with all yellow ends... Don't forget the repair strips along the bottom of the bodysides! Very Best Wishes, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted April 10, 2014 Author Share Posted April 10, 2014 Colin, It is looking excellent - very well done, we can all stop holding our breath now... The tops of the doors look to have have come out rather well. I am sure you will have already spotted the missing hinge... It will look very nice in Green with all yellow ends... Don't forget the repair strips along the bottom of the bodysides! Very Best Wishes, Hi Howard, The door tops were the easy bit, and no, I hadn't noticed that missing hinge! Sorry to disappoint, but the units will remain blue. Re. repair strips, of the set of photos of a 2 HAP unit at Brighton and so on, there do not appear to be many strips at all, so I will add less than on the 4 SUB: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/15056-bulleid-2hap-emu/page-8 All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted April 16, 2014 Author Share Posted April 16, 2014 Painting complete and transfers on, I have been trying out the glazing. The big snag with the PETG sheet that I have is that when trying to introduce a gentle curve in the window panes to match the body side curvature, there is a slight crazing which wasn't encountered with the material that has been used in the past for EMU glazing. The varnish over the transfers was Humbrol Satin but has turned out matt. This is fine as I hope to re-instate the stained and stripy look that some 2 HAPs ad due to the effect of the carriage cleaning fluid used at that time (the 4 SUB should probably be similarly weathered). The over-spary above the cantrail will be dealt with. Hope you like the mending plate Howard! Experiments with heating the glazing sheet to produce an even curve will have to be undertaken. The trial of ruling on the handrails met with only partial success: the lines are straight and at the right level, but the larger pane has a smudged line and the smaller one got scratched! Back to plastic rod perhaps?! Colin 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAB Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Colin, Repair strip is first rate - as is everything else!! I trust you now have / will shortly have a supply of commode handles. Very Best Wishes, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david65061 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Dear Colin The model is really looking the part. Cutting the old sides off and replacing them has been worth it. I know how annoying it can be to realise that you have done something wrong and just have to put it right. I hope you find a solution to your glazing problem. I am sorry I can not offer any suggestions. Steam engines do not have much glazing. Though your inspirational modelling is making me think about an electric unit of my own. I keep looking at pictures of north tyneside units but the large expanse of windows is putting me off. Any way keep up the good work and I can't wait to see the whole unit finished. regards David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted April 16, 2014 Author Share Posted April 16, 2014 (edited) Colin, Repair strip is first rate - as is everything else!! I trust you now have / will shortly have a supply of commode handles. Very Best Wishes, Hi Howard, Thanks for your generous comments. The windows, repair strips and other features are improvements over the old sides' features, but the painted-on corridor hand rails look pretty cheesy so more will have to be done to get an acceptable solution. The commode handles you sent me have arrived so many thanks for those. (We were out this morning when the post was delivered, but the dog did not chew through the envelope, having rather more interest in the latest copy of the Private Eye which gave her more to get her teeth into.) One thing you might have expert knowledge of is the maximum load of a 2 HAP van/luggage compartment. Due to Modelmaster not now containing the 'Load X Tons Evenly Distributed' on their new BR(S) EMU white transfer sheets, I was forced to used old Modelmaster transfers with the load of '2 Tons', which is probably not correct. My only consolation is that the script is virtually illegible from 'a normal viewing distance'. So any ideas on the loading limits of 2 HAPs?! All the best, Colin Edited April 16, 2014 by Colin parks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted April 16, 2014 Author Share Posted April 16, 2014 Dear Colin The model is really looking the part. Cutting the old sides off and replacing them has been worth it. I know how annoying it can be to realise that you have done something wrong and just have to put it right. I hope you find a solution to your glazing problem. I am sorry I can not offer any suggestions. Steam engines do not have much glazing. Though your inspirational modelling is making me think about an electric unit of my own. I keep looking at pictures of north tyneside units but the large expanse of windows is putting me off. Any way keep up the good work and I can't wait to see the whole unit finished. regards David Hi David, If you can make a loco, you can surely make an EMU! The NER was one of the pioneers of electric traction after all (didn't they have electrically powered parcels units? (= very few windows)) But take my advice start off with a prototype where the glazing was flat! All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 Colin, when curving the glazing, I have always used boiling, or near-boiling water, with some cold water handy to splash on when I am happy with the shape.While nowhere near to your modelling standards, this pic illustrates the effect on a model Duple Dominant II coach (Pirate Models). Because of the size of these windows, I used a fairly thick material for strength. For full strips of glazing like this, I tend to use a former to get the curvature even; in this case, the draining board of the kitchen sink had just the right degree of curvature, and a short section of wooden skirting board moulding allowed me to press the glazing down a little without scalding my fingers. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAB Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 One thing you might have expert knowledge of is the maximum load of a 2 HAP van/luggage compartment. Due to Modelmaster not now containing the 'Load X Tons Evenly Distributed' on their new BR(S) EMU white transfer sheets, I was forced to used old Modelmaster transfers with the load of '2 Tons', which is probably not correct. My only consolation is that the script is virtually illegible from 'a normal viewing distance'. So any ideas on the loading limits of 2 HAPs?! Hello Colin, I trust your Private Eye will still be legible! I would not like to be dogmatic about that loading of the vans on the HAPs (though I seem to remember loading A LOT of boxes of cut flowers into them was I was a Temporary Railman at Portsmouth Harbour!) I do seem to remember that the EPB vans were 1 ton and the HAP vans were bigger so 2 tons might not be far off. Equally, even if it is not spot-on, then, as we used to say at Horwich, a blind man will not see that when it is in a tunnel at midnight... Good luck with the commode handles - you are the most proficient person in the whole world at these!! Very Best Wishes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwr Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 Colin, when curving the glazing, I have always used boiling, or near-boiling water, with some cold water handy to splash on when I am happy with the shape.While nowhere near to your modelling standards, this pic illustrates the effect on a model Duple Dominant II coach (Pirate Models). Because of the size of these windows, I used a fairly thick material for strength. For full strips of glazing like this, I tend to use a former to get the curvature even; in this case, the draining board of the kitchen sink had just the right degree of curvature, and a short section of wooden skirting board moulding allowed me to press the glazing down a little without scalding my fingers. I didn't know you could bend glazing like this. What material are you using Paul R Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptic Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 Hi Colin. I hope he doesn't mind, but zooming in on one of Dasatcopthorne's photos (p#8 of your earlier 2-HAP build) my eyes are telling me that it looks very much like a 1 Ton limit. What say you ? All the best. Frank. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAB Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 ... even that close you can't tell the difference!!! ( I knew Frank and Dave would come to the rescue!) .. and not a repair strip in sight... Best wishes, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasatcopthorne Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 Hi Colin. I hope he doesn't mind, but zooming in on one of Dasatcopthorne's photos (p#8 of your earlier 2-HAP build) my eyes are telling me that it looks very much like a 1 Ton limit. post-509-128112928954_thumb (2).jpg What say you ? All the best. Frank. No problem with the photo Frank. My understanding is that all SR EMUs had 1 ton capability other than those with larger guards comps. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 I didn't know you could bend glazing like this. What material are you using Paul R Hi pwr. In this case, it was clear plastic material from a shirt box lid. The technique works with most of the plastics I have come across but as it is quite easy to try, just have a go and see if it works with whatever material you have. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted April 17, 2014 Author Share Posted April 17, 2014 Colin, when curving the glazing, I have always used boiling, or near-boiling water, with some cold water handy to splash on when I am happy with the shape. While nowhere near to your modelling standards, this pic illustrates the effect on a model Duple Dominant II coach (Pirate Models). Because of the size of these windows, I used a fairly thick material for strength. For full strips of glazing like this, I tend to use a former to get the curvature even; in this case, the draining board of the kitchen sink had just the right degree of curvature, and a short section of wooden skirting board moulding allowed me to press the glazing down a little without scalding my fingers. Wow. Hats off to you for glazing those buses SRman! I have made a rod to beat myself with here, as the sheet I have to use fits the slots that have been made in the cantrail above the windows. I tried heat and the strips 'cupped', with the heat being on one side, I should have anticipated that. I suppose boiling water would have worked if the strips were immersed, but what work in the end was to grip one end of the strip and coil it up like an old clock spring. When released the plastic had adopted the curve required, any correction s were done with finger pressure. All the best, Colin 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted April 17, 2014 Author Share Posted April 17, 2014 Hi Colin. I hope he doesn't mind, but zooming in on one of Dasatcopthorne's photos (p#8 of your earlier 2-HAP build) my eyes are telling me that it looks very much like a 1 Ton limit. post-509-128112928954_thumb (2).jpg What say you ? All the best. Frank. Thanks Frank. It is just as I feared, having read through all my Southern books last night. It appears that all these units with a similar van size were one ton, although the first ten all steel 4 SUBs were originally rated at 1 1/2 tons by the Southern Railway. All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
talisman56 Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 All the SR-style power cars (5001-53, 5101-260, 5601-36, 5651-84) were to the same diagram and had brake vans with 1 ton capacity. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted April 17, 2014 Author Share Posted April 17, 2014 No problem with the photo Frank. My understanding is that all SR EMUs had 1 ton capability other than those with larger guards comps. Dave Hi Dave, Yes, agreed. The unfortunate thing is that the re-designed Modelmaster '4353' transfers have absolutely no load markings at all for the van ends of EMUs. At the risk of being blunt, it makes the transfer sheet rather useless as every EMU it covers had a luggage compartment! I have decided to keep the '2 Tons' transfers on the HAPs for now, being better than having nothing there at all. All the best, Colin 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted April 17, 2014 Author Share Posted April 17, 2014 All the SR-style power cars (5001-53, 5101-260, 5601-36, 5651-84) were to the same diagram and had brake vans with 1 ton capacity.Thanks talisman56, I have come to the same conclusion myself! I'm going to contact Modelmaster to see why there are no markings for the van ends. Colin 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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