David Todd Posted March 6, 2016 Author Share Posted March 6, 2016 OOps - have I posted all this post #6 on cliff making in the wrang thread? dh Am afraid so,dh, that thread is a different material and for buildings. Here is the post you wrote, Posted Yesterday, 22:29 Great to see you've opened this parcour thread on cliffhangers! Thinking about your colossal expanse of celotex cliff - Have you had any rehearsals yet? Although propping up the (8' x 4'?) sheet is a great way to quickly simulate the scale and pitch of the cliff, it must seem a really daunting expanse to keep looking at. But you could set about ‘damaging’ that pristine sheet in several ways: Plan A The riskiest is working the board itself over – pulling the foil face off first, then roughly marking on (with charcoal?) the chalk face areas relative to the grassed bits. Next you start attacking the chalk bits, scratching off the face of the foam with something like a piece of 2”x1” with some randomly hammered thru nails./ worn down old wire brush/ small screwdriver w.h.y. You are guaranteed to want to re-instate places where you have gone too far. You can do this with builders P.V.A. with plaster or polyfiller added. It dries rapidly then you can have another go at damaging the new bit … and so on. Plan B Is using the same methods as above but on smaller thinner sheets of styrene you bond onto the big sheet (again stripped of its foil face). This way you only irretrievable damage a few sheets – and even then you can collage bits of the failures onto the greater cliff face. The downside is you end up with a thicker heavier chunk of scenery with plan B. Plan C Is do it all as built up collaging on a big cotton bed sheet hung over the big celotex sheet (fixed with a batten on the back of the top edge.). You can using the same materials as A above – plus torn up tissue or newspaper mixed with the pva as well as “throwing or flicking” dollops of thicker p.v.a /plaster and/or sharp sand mix at it; working the stuff around as it dries. All 3 suggested methods could benefit from some green grass colour acrylic mixed in with some of the pva, to indicate the grassed cliff faces. I tried these techniques on my Sunderland Fine Art course and saw a lot more stuff done this way - its a bit of an emotional roller coaster, but just looking at it and deciding upon having a further go at reworking/tweaking bits over a period of weeks is definitely a rewarding contrast to fiddly little everyday modelling tasks. dh Edited by runs as required, Yesterday, 22:57 . 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Todd Posted March 6, 2016 Author Share Posted March 6, 2016 This is the methodology I was thinking about, but not his outcome. https://youtu.be/Mpko5rxM9pI 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Todd Posted March 6, 2016 Author Share Posted March 6, 2016 Method of Coating, Richard Johnson (Dcc Concepts) put me onto this, an old method, but now resurrected http://youtu.be/Gtd4bNmpQ1k 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Todd Posted March 6, 2016 Author Share Posted March 6, 2016 How thick is the celotex? G. 1 mtr 20cm in length, 45.cm in width 50.cm in thickness, are the panels, that are fitted, on 75.cm wood screws up from the edge of the b/boards and easily removable. I have now inverted them to give, what I think,is the right angle for the cliffs. The photo's of the 375/3 look good with the new illuminated signalling; some shots are actually brilliant. It's a shame you can't mask out some of the light from the back of the tunnels. I'd like to see a shot of it disappearing into Shakey tunnel with the tail lamps on. If you change the address on the power car you need to re-address every vehicle at the same time on the program track to make all the lights work properly....not sure how it's all done on the ECoS....... I've been dying to see what you'll do with the chalk cliffs for ages........hopefully when I get round your drum next month you'll have something going on in this department.... I did blackout the tunnels in some later shot's. Yes, t is evident that I changed the decoder address, on the main motor center car and not the twoo end cars,(yet),hence the amber door open light being on on one car and headlights on the other. It is no good keeping the address 3, for my Esu command will not run it, it blocks telling me that there is a conflict of addresses. Shakey Tunnel has not been completed yet. I've got a shedload of 50mm and 75mm thick Knaufboard insulation (same stuff) left over from the house renovation. Don't get me wrong, I've never had the need to create any gargantuan God-like natural cliffs on the scale of yours, but... To get the thickness you want, laminate together using normal PVA, two sheets at a time having removed the foil. Heavy books etc as weights. Give it a couple of says to go off. Removing the foil gives it a tendency to bend slightly but it's not an issue, you can flex it back again when fixing on the layout. When dry, I always use an old steak knife to butcher it into profile. Good luck. And there will be mess. Mucho mucho mess. Wear a mask. Thanks Pete, I am hoping to not have to laminate pieces, I have chosen 50 mm thickness. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Todd Posted March 6, 2016 Author Share Posted March 6, 2016 (edited) Aerial pictures of the Shakespeare Beach cliffs. From, Shakespeare Tunnels,to Harbour Tunnei,South portal. I have to determine the heights,starting with the lowest at Archcliffe corner, Running back to Shakey Tunnel. Edited March 6, 2016 by David Todd 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcredfer Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 Hi dt, Are you going to attempt any part of the A20? Presumably there would only be room for the bit as the line curves under it, on the way to the tunnel. Regards J Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Todd Posted March 7, 2016 Author Share Posted March 7, 2016 The platform canopy, will be upgraded, during the summer months, for the 6th time. by ferriesdover, on Flickr by ferriesdover, on Flickr by ferriesdover, on Flickr by ferriesdover, on Flickr by ferriesdover, on Flickr 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Todd Posted March 7, 2016 Author Share Posted March 7, 2016 Hi dt, Are you going to attempt any part of the A20? Presumably there would only be room for the bit as the line curves under it, on the way to the tunnel. Regards J The answer is, No, J. I was not going to even attempt to put in the road viaduct nor the A20 road over bridge, all are in front of the of Harbour tunnel south portal. I just think the spacing will be too tight. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Todd Posted March 7, 2016 Author Share Posted March 7, 2016 A look behind Shakespeare Tunnel, the model has not been completed yet. by ferriesdover, on Flickr by ferriesdover, on Flickr The foam panels have been inverted, to give me,what I think,is the right angle to start shaving. by ferriesdover, on Flickr 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Todd Posted March 7, 2016 Author Share Posted March 7, 2016 (edited) The photo's of the 375/3 look good with the new illuminated signalling; some shots are actually brilliant. It's a shame you can't mask out some of the light from the back of the tunnels. I'd like to see a shot of it disappearing into Shakey tunnel with the tail lamps on. If you change the address on the power car you need to re-address every vehicle at the same time on the program track to make all the lights work properly....not sure how it's all done on the ECoS....... I've been dying to see what you'll do with the chalk cliffs for ages........hopefully when I get round your drum next month you'll have something going on in this department.... This, is all I can furnish you with, for now. Electrostar 375/304 exit's a half completed Shakespeare Tunnel,Dover. by ferriesdover, on Flickr by ferriesdover, on Flickr Edited March 7, 2016 by David Todd 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus 37 Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 Looking forward to seeing you make a start on the cliffs David. Insulation board is a great medium to work with as I have found out on PDW, which has gobbled up about four 8x4 sheets. All I will say is be carefull of only taking the foil off one side as it will distort badly. It's almost as though the foil has the foam under tension. When the foil is removed from one side the foam bows quite substantially. As soon as it is removed from the other side it then tends to straighten out again. Another thing to be aware of, it does tend to shrink a bit when it's been glued. I found that out quite a few times when I had built up embankments out of several different pieces which all fitted perfectly. Once glued and been left for 24 hours I found that gaps had opened up between the different parts. Not an issue as you can just put some filler in after the rock face has been carved. With PDW I tended to build up the various cliff faces off scene as it was easier to carve with out having to reach over the board. Especially at the back of the quarry where the board is three feet wide. The other thing, keep a Hoover and a dust pan and brush to hand as you are going to end up with a lot of mess. It's amazing once you start carving that you suddenly find yourself disappearing in a heap of the stuff. Once you get started though you'll love it. Cheers Marcus 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus 37 Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 Just to give some idea where my first sheet of 8x4 dissapeared..... Obviously chalk cliffs will have a different texture to them rather than my limestone but it just gives some idea of what can be achieved with the stuff. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
freebs Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 Wow. Is that cellotex? Those cuttings look amazing! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Todd Posted March 7, 2016 Author Share Posted March 7, 2016 Thank you for your posting and pictures Marcus. It does give me the inspiration to get go, Here are a couple of photos taken last Saturday from atop of Shakespeare tunnel mouths. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus 37 Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 Great pictures David. Always think pictures like that are really interesting as its not something you would normally see. Obviously I do possession work occasionally but at least one line is always still down otherwise it gets a bit bumpy. I remember when they remodelled Tyseley Junction down the road from me a few years ago seeing it completely devoid of track looked really strange. Going back to the PIR for a minute, a good stiff brush like a nail brush is really good for adding texture and strata to the face of the rocks. Also its not just rock formations you can make out of it either. As this was on a curve I carved this retaining wall into a block of it as well. It really is a useful modelling medium. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus 37 Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 Wow. Is that cellotex? Those cuttings look amazing! Hi Freebs Yep,it is Cellotex. It was Cav (RBE) that pointed me in the direction of it in the first place. Modelling the Peak District, it is nothing but bare rock faces so I needed to use something that was geared towards doing large expanses. Have a look on my thread and you'll see what I mean!! I was quite relieved when I got as far as the South Sidings as that's about the only place that's got a normal grassy embankment. Cheers Marcus 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Todd Posted March 7, 2016 Author Share Posted March 7, 2016 Thanks Marcus, I had attempted trial, on a smaller block, which worked reasonably well,for me. by ferriesdover, on Flickr by ferriesdover, on Flickr by ferriesdover, on Flickr by ferriesdover, on Flickr by ferriesdover, on Flickr 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus 37 Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 That looks superb David. That catches the smoother look of the Chalk face really well. That will look seriously impressive when the whole lots done. Has that got a layer of plaster put over it as the small cracks look really good. Having worked in chalk clay some years ago down in Wiltshire that's exactly how it looks when it dries out. Putting up road signs with a mate on the A303 I think it was near Cholderton. It was blazing hot and the sun reflecting off the chalk used to give you snow blindness. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Todd Posted March 7, 2016 Author Share Posted March 7, 2016 by ferriesdover, on Flickr by ferriesdover, on Flickr 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Todd Posted March 7, 2016 Author Share Posted March 7, 2016 (edited) Archcliiffe ex- junction, start of the 10 chain curve. by ferriesdover, on Flickr by ferriesdover, on Flickr Edited March 7, 2016 by David Todd 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Todd Posted March 7, 2016 Author Share Posted March 7, 2016 Two pins and a bit of bungy. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Todd Posted March 7, 2016 Author Share Posted March 7, 2016 A run into Platform 2, from Harbour Tunnel. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
class"66" Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 That foam board is great stuff to shape with an old hoover David used this stuff for banks road branch line... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Sasquatch Posted March 8, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 8, 2016 Duck tape is great for holding the stuff together as well as hot glue. Use a surform rasp like this to eat through it. I even cut it on my table saw and made a curved walled curved tunnel using an angle grinder. Far too much fun. Wear a mask and good eye protection, it's very unpleasant to get it in your eyes dt. Enjoyed catching up, regards Shaun. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanks522 Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 I've just got a new saw for work David, Wanna borrow it? Graham. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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