Lima Class 156 - yay or nay?

[sub39h]

hi guys,

 

i am looking for some RTR DMUs/EMUs to add to my rolling stock. My intended era is late 80s/early 90s, somewhere in the MIdlands in a fictional station that sees mainly ECML traffic, but some MML and WCML and XC services as well. (completely unprototypical i know, but as my interest is express passenger trains from this era it allows me to run everything i find most interesting.)

 

i am aware that the Hornby Class 156 is basically the Lima 156 with a slightly newer motor and a DCC socket, but it does not come in the liveries I wanted. (I am looking for a RR Super Sprinter, and maybe a RR Express livery one if I can find them). the ulimate plan is to remotor them and add lights, but i'm wondering how good the model is? i'm more about something that looks kind of right running rather than strict prototypical accuracy. i have spotted the Hurst Models underframe detailing kit, but feel that £23 odd for this is more that i'd be willing to spend. 

 

my current DMU/EMU fleet only has a Bachmann 150/2 in it, and I have 2 Bratchell Models Class 319s on order. i plan on ordering the newly tooled Bachmann 158 in RR and probably NSE livery when they offer non-sound versions. will the Limby 156 look up to scratch compared with these or massively out of place? 

 

many thanks in advance for your advice and opinions. 

[NickL2008]

Hi

 

The Hornby and Lima 156 are as you say basically the same model, the Hornby model is updated wit ha newer drive and pickups, but that's only it. Both models have no lighting at all, or even cab interiors for that matter as the motor bogie in the original Lima design meant they could fit a cab interior as it would of fouled the Motor bogie when pivoting around curves. The underframe detail is represented by a box, which has some very low relief detail on it. Even compared to Bachmanns current 158, the Lima 156 is poor in comparison for detail as well if you compare the two, and it doesn't have any representations of the BSI couplings or the snowploughs either which need to be added depending on which time youd be modelling the 156 on. Printing on the Lima model is good, but obviously not as good as up to date models but it was good for the time although its missing the Door open lights on earlier models,  the coupling is the same between the units on both models, with some odd clip together style coupling used in a NEM pocket, although im not sure if you could fit Kadees into it? The glazing as well is pretty plastic on the Lima models, I think Hornby improved it but there is a gap in the market for some further etches and flush glazing for this model IMO

 

NL

[Dunsignalling]

The November 1994 edition of Railway Modeller features an article describing a thorough upgrading/detailing job on the Lima 156. 

 

John

[sub39h]

ok thanks guys - i'm not all that interested in going overboard detailing a 20+ year old model. it'll already be a fairly expensive exercise just updating the motor and adding lights so i might give the 156 a miss for now and hope that someone releases a better model of it

[Classsix T]

I'd say if you want one, can find a second-hand example for silly money, go for it. It's of its time obviously but looks the part.

Your only real issue might be the wheel flanges if running on code 75 track.

 

C6T.

[sub39h]

^something i had neglected to consider. definitely abandoned the idea now! 

 

just a shame there aren't more DMUs available for my chosen era atm. the Bachmann 150 is a work of art and no doubt the 158 will be cracking as well. a little more choice would be nice tho! an OHLE  Class 365 by Bachmann would be nice!

[Ian_M]

Sounds like we have similar interests! I got one of the Lima 156's from ebay for about £20 and apart from the wheels I'm happy with it. Just depends on your attitude I suppose. Anyone know of suitable replacement wheels?

[crompton 33]

ultrascale have them listed . But it could take awhile before you get them.

[Matt]

I wouldn't be so hasty. The Lima model is pretty good apart from under frames. The hurst kit is pretty easy to install and is more than just the under frames, including etched overlays for gangways on outer ends and ploughs. Once installed I'd say it looks like a 156 and doesn't jar next to the Bach 150 or 158. Main issue then is the motor bogie and wheels which can be remedied by buying a Hornby 156, swapping chassis and selling on the Hornby 156 body with Lima chassis. The most difficult aspect of this upgrade is getting the hurst kit but when you do it is worth the cost as contains a lot for the money. You'll get a decent 156 for total £50-60 which makes comparable to more modern offerings and you'll have satisfaction of knowing you did it yourself.

 

M

[flyingsignalman]

I have a Lima 156 and I've not noticed any problems when running it on code 75 track (maybe I'm not fussy!), even through a double slip.

I can't remember when I got it but it was a fair few years ago and now the motor is starting to run erratically so it doesn't come out too often now.

[sub39h]

I wouldn't be so hasty. The Lima model is pretty good apart from under frames. The hurst kit is pretty easy to install and is more than just the under frames, including etched overlays for gangways on outer ends and ploughs. Once installed I'd say it looks like a 156 and doesn't jar next to the Bach 150 or 158. Main issue then is the motor bogie and wheels which can be remedied by buying a Hornby 156, swapping chassis and selling on the Hornby 156 body with Lima chassis. The most difficult aspect of this upgrade is getting the hurst kit but when you do it is worth the cost as contains a lot for the money. You'll get a decent 156 for total £50-60 which makes comparable to more modern offerings and you'll have satisfaction of knowing you did it yourself.

 

M

 

i'd be keen to know how you came to this price? the Lima 156s tend to go for £30 minimum, and then the Hurst kit (whenever it becomes available) is another £23 + P&P. I'd then need to spend around £15 on a remotor, and another £20 or so on a lighting kit. considering i got my Bachmann 150/2 as a Hattons bargain for less than £50 it doesn't look that economical to me

 

I have a Lima 156 and I've not noticed any problems when running it on code 75 track (maybe I'm not fussy!), even through a double slip.

I can't remember when I got it but it was a fair few years ago and now the motor is starting to run erratically so it doesn't come out too often now.

 

http://diesel-trains.co.uk/shop.html

[JDW]

Hi,

 

As Matt says, the Lima model isn't that bad.  It looks like a 156, so that's a good start!  I have 9 of them, 3 have had the Hurst kits fitted (I have a 4th kit, but its been sat on my workbench for the last 5 years - after the first 8 vehicles, I needed a break!).  The kit hasn't been available for years, though, as far as I know.  The biggest improvement is to the front end, the units look totally wrong without the ploughs (apart from for the first few years, and only in Provincial livery).  My units which haven't had the full treatment have all had the end couplings removed from the bogies, and modified Hornby class 153 ploughs fitted to the chassis.  This improves them no end, in my opinion.  Staying with the ends, the light clusters and cab windows are printed black, rather than painted.  Touching in the edges of the lights, and around the inside edge of the front windows along with the wipers and dividing strip on the glazing in black, makes a big difference too.  Likewise, some liveries benefit from touching in around the inside of the saloon windows in the appropriate colour - especially the Strathclyde orange, which is black-overprinted-on-orange. 

 

The Class 153 ploughs are not the best, but they are all that is available at the moment - the 150 ones are much closer to the real thing, but I've already enquired, and they're not available as spares.  I modified them by removing the protrusion on the back, then thinning down all the edges to make them look less chunky, before using thin strips of brass to mount them on the chassis.  Make sure you mount them in the right place, I've seen lots positioned either too far forwards or too far back

 

As mentioned above, the Hornby motor is generally better, though as always, the Lima one can be good or dire.  I have some that run great, I have one that had the powered car chassis replaced with a spare dummy chassis to create a 4-car set.  If you can get a Horny set, swap both chassis, then sell the Lima chassis/Hornby body, that's probably your best bet I'd say.  The Hornby wheels are much better than the Lima ones.  Before you rush to remotor, run it in well first, my Hornby ones run very well [on DCC, I assume on DC too].

 

For fitting lights, that should be quite easy, the light lenses are part of the cab glazing and easy enough to remove.  Until you get around to the lights, painting the back of the lenses is also an easy "quick-hit" improvement, as is painting the back of the glass over the destination screen (above the drivers side window) white or black as appropriate, or fitting destinations.

 

OK, there's still the issue of the chassis, but those few quick changes make a big improvement, especially to the 'face' of the model.  I'm afraid I can't post any pics of any of mine at the minute, but let us know how you get on.

 

JD

[NickL2008]

Its a shame for the cab front windows theres no etches, as with those, the frame between the actual window and bottom of the destination blind could be included, and as well the missing rivet detail as well, I did mine, by using micro strip glued onto a clear piece of clear plastic to fit the whole aperture of the window .

 

I used modified 153 ploughs as well as theyre the closest we now have to the ploughs, as mentioned the Hurst kit hasn't been available for years now, bu the mounts for those to me look bit too high anyway, and it never captured the look of it anyway IMO. For the underframe you could reuse some of the Lima detail as it is correct, apart from the fuel tanks and exhaust pipes; for this you can buy a Hornby 153 chassis like I did and salvage it for the exhaust, gear box and a few other bits as well and it wont cost a bomb to do either as well

 

NL

[newbryford]

I'd say if you want one, can find a second-hand example for silly money, go for it. It's of its time obviously but looks the part.

Your only real issue might be the wheel flanges if running on code 75 track.

 

C6T.

 

The pizza cutter flanges can be reduced with judicious use of a power drill and file.

 

It may seem a bit drastic, but I've trimmed down many deep Lima flanges to run on Code 75. Basically removing the sharp edge to the flange.

 

Cheers,

Mick

[Matt]

i'd be keen to know how you came to this price? the Lima 156s tend to go for £30 minimum, and then the Hurst kit (whenever it becomes available) is another £23 + P&P. I'd then need to spend around £15 on a remotor, and another £20 or so on a lighting kit. considering i got my Bachmann 150/2 as a Hattons bargain for less than £50 it doesn't look that economical to me

 

http://diesel-trains.co.uk/shop.html

Was working on principle that cost £30 for Lima, £23 for hurst kit and that Hornby 156 can be bought, chassis swapped and sold on for min loss which could be optimistic tho you never know on ebay even being honest! I did not factor in lights as have never really considered it a must have feature but you're right would add about £20 for lighting kit.

 

The problem with the Hornby 156 is that it has its issues but isn't bad enough for someone to rush out a replacement - the 101 was the same but id say the market is larger such that Bach have now taken on. Mind I didn't see Bach redoing the 158 as old one was pretty good...

 

M

[NickL2008]

The old Bachmann 158 was/is very toylike and had its share of errors; bogies are wrong and the suspension mouldings don't line up with the  bodyside. The lights also don't incorporate the side bar lights either, incorrect buckeye couplings on the front and the undeframe whilst decent isn't without its errors also, so im hoping probably like others it will be a improved model

 

NL

[Dave47549]

.

 

 

[Robert Shrives]

Hi Try Peters Spares and or ebay search for 156 spares - able to pick most parts -if not all for chassis for the 156. Fitting Kaydees v easy - years a go I did a 3 car rake - model good for its time but HURST models or making up own underframe bits worth looking at try NNK now part of precision paints for castings

Robert    

[sub39h]

thanks for all your responses guys. i have no doubt that with patience and skill the Lima 156 could be made to look very good indeed, but sadly i lack both of those attributes! i don't feel that i personally could make a Class 156 look as good as, for example, the aforementioned Bachmann 150/2 for a similar price to the Hattons bargain price I paid. therefore i'm still tempted to avoid this for the time being.

 

it seems others are finding this thread useful so if anyone has any further opinions (or feels they may persuade me to purchase a Lima 156) then please feel free to continue posting. your input is most welcome. 

[cravensdmufan]

Two years on from the original posts - and here I am doing a bit of detailing to my original Lima 156's - which I purchased some 20 years ago!

 

A small bit of painting really makes all the difference to the front ends, particularly around the windscreens.  I paint the insides of the frames matt black (similarly the small side drivers/secondmans windows) and while I'm using the black I paint the inside of the "cab" area to get rid of the yellow moulding colour.  Turning to the windscreen moulding itself, I paint black around the windows to reduce the prism effect. A small touch on the moulded windscreen wipers as well.

 

Also touch in the lenses with a touch of gold and red to represent lights.  Call me old fashioned, but I don't really like working lights that much as I find them distracting - well that's my excuse for not doing them!  The central connecting door has a strip of perspex fitted over it (from Wills packaging!).  

 

I now need to weather..  I have adapted the trailer car to also pick up power through the wheels, so the unit now picks up from eight wheels rather than the original four.  The cars are connected with a micro plug/socket. I stripped down the power bogie and motor, cleaned and applied a small touch of Labelle oil and white grease and she's running sweetly.  Crawls over  Code 100 dead frogs with no hesitation.

 

So that's my very quick ultra low cost improvement project - the only things I need now are a decent underframe (Hurst really should do a re-run of their kit) and a snowplow (does anyone know if there is anything available since?).. 

 

I still consider the Lima 156 is basically a good model which still holds up well alongside modern Bachmann and Hornby items.

 

 

[muddys-blues]

Gents, I have half a Hurst class 156 under frame kit enough to do 1 car in my 4mm clear out stock, and some Hurst 153 details parts such as corridor rubbing plates etc, these will fit on the 156 nicely, anybody interested PM me.

 

Best regards

Craig.

[tamperman36]

Have you tried checking shape ways web site to see if they do any 3d printed parts

[Scottish Modeller]

Two years on from the original posts - and here I am doing a bit of detailing to my original Lima 156's - which I purchased some 20 years ago!

 

A small bit of painting really makes all the difference to the front ends, particularly around the windscreens.  I paint the insides of the frames matt black (similarly the small side drivers/secondmans windows) and while I'm using the black I paint the inside of the "cab" area to get rid of the yellow moulding colour.  Turning to the windscreen moulding itself, I paint black around the windows to reduce the prism effect. A small touch on the moulded windscreen wipers as well.

 

Also touch in the lenses with a touch of gold and red to represent lights.  Call me old fashioned, but I don't really like working lights that much as I find them distracting - well that's my excuse for not doing them!  The central connecting door has a strip of perspex fitted over it (from Wills packaging!).  

 

I now need to weather..  I have adapted the trailer car to also pick up power through the wheels, so the unit now picks up from eight wheels rather than the original four.  The cars are connected with a micro plug/socket. I stripped down the power bogie and motor, cleaned and applied a small touch of Labelle oil and white grease and she's running sweetly.  Crawls over  Code 100 dead frogs with no hesitation.

 

So that's my very quick ultra low cost improvement project - the only things I need now are a decent underframe (Hurst really should do a re-run of their kit) and a snowplow (does anyone know if there is anything available since?).. 

 

I still consider the Lima 156 is basically a good model which still holds up well alongside modern Bachmann and Hornby items.

Hi there,

 

I'm with you on this one!

 

The Lima CL156 (and later Hornby versions) still stand up against more modern offerings.

 

I still have all of mine - some modified, some part done, some not even started!

 

I have all the bits buried away in boxes and will carry on modifying them until they are all done (or I run out of bits).

 

Then - you have to think about the possibility that an all new, singing, dancing, all mod cons and to the current  high spec may only be a short straw away from the market!

 

What then?

 

Do you just sell off the old and replace with new?

 

I have 15 CL156's - If a new one is released it is going to be in the region of £150 each.....

 

Do the maths on that!

 

Then remember a couple of things!

 

You are a modeller - not a collector.

 

Your own models are your own work.

 

Your own models gave you a feel good time when you had done the work.

 

But - that's just my opinion - not everyone will be of the same mind.

 

Thanks

[cravensdmufan]

Have you tried checking shape ways web site to see if they do any 3d printed parts

Thanks - I didn't even know about that site.

 

BTW there's a Hurst underframe kit on the 'bay right now, £33 with 1hr 45min still to run before the usual last minute frenzy!  I'm afraid I dropped out after £30.

 

I have three 2 car 156's to do so will probably make do with just picking out the detail on the Lima "box" with paints and powders.  I saw one done like that on a exhibition layout and it looked good from normal viewing distance.

[cravensdmufan]

 

The Lima CL156 (and later Hornby versions) still stand up against more modern offerings.

 

Thanks, I agree with all you say. 

 

Some Lima's still look really good when detail added.  I had great fun doing the 156 and have done Class 73, 87's, 92's 101's and HST's as well.  Those are the only Lima classes I kept.

 

156's and 101's were almost flush glazed!  How good was that back in those days?!  All due credit to Lima's designers.

 

I still have code 100 track so the wheels aren't a problem.  With extra pick ups, good cleaning and servicing all mine run sweetly too!