Layout design case study

[colin penfold]

I have managed to drag myself away from the Bargate building as I have 9 days solid modelling coming up. I'm going to see how much progress I can make with Burghclere. In order to maximise the time I have made myself a list of preparatory tasks to get done before I start on Nov 12th.

 

 

The two most photogenic achievements this weekend are a pair of "double" ground signals made by butchering 4 of the excellent "Detail Matters" offerings.

 

 

The other was my first ever Lanarkshire Models buffer stop. Very happy with it indeed

 

 

[colin penfold]

I have now planned the point rodding and wire runs for Burghclere.

 

Did this by drawing out a diagrammatic representation of the track plan and a plan of the levers in the box. Then joined the dots to each point and signal. I have also used photos to see where the runs went. You cant see the signal wire pulleys at the box, the wires just "appear" already heading the right way. I also plan to only model the top wheel of any stack to save materials. I have included the signals which are outside my modelled area in order to get the wire runs right.

 

Here are some pics of the A3 plan. I dont have the technology at home but could PDF it at work next week if anyone is interested. Red are signals, green is track, blue is point rodding and pencil is signal wire.

 

 

 

 

 

Any questions corrections or observations will be welcome. Id be keen to know the arrangement for "splitting" a rod for a crossover.

[The Great Bear]

 

Any questions corrections or observations will be welcome. Id be keen to know the arrangement for "splitting" a rod for a crossover.

 

Not sure if this answer in topic from when I was planning point rodding from Stationmaster is the info you need http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/76135-point-rodding-some-questions/?p=2202317

[colin penfold]

Not sure if this answer in topic from when I was planning point rodding from Stationmaster is the info you need http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/76135-point-rodding-some-questions/?p=2202317

 

Brill, thanks - in effect then it sounds like they split the rod using a kind of lug assembly then presumably one fork goes to a crank as it will need to go 90 to degrees to the tie bar of the first point while the main rod continues towards the second point in the crossover.

[colin penfold]

I probably should have said earlier I plan to use a mixture of the following:

 

Modelu GWR point rodding stools.

Brassmasters cranks and signal wire wheels

Wills FPLs cranks and compensators

Alan Gibson 0.33mm brass wire for point rodding (GWR Practice at Burghclere - round rods not square like the Wills)

Fishing line (ultra thin) for signal wire

 

As a result of the above plan I now know I don't have enough wire or signal wire wheels or rodding stools. Wire on order, Stools on order. I initially guessed and ordered stools for three rods side by side, thinking I can cut them to 2s or 1s as required but they are TINY!!!!. As I don't have enough I have ordered some 4s and 2s so all bases (or stools! ) are covered

 

I have also determined that I will only model the top one of any stack of signal wire wheels, and will insert a 3mm clear plastic earring back underneath to mimic the extra height whilst providing something for the fishing line to turn against.That way the 18 I have will be enough.

[Guest]

Any questions corrections or observations will be welcome.

 

I'll decline on the basis that I don't understand any of it...

Mightily impressed by the thought and planning that you're putting into this Colin. You may yet convert me from the "eyes closed, jump right in" approach.

[The Great Bear]

I probably should have said earlier I plan to use a mixture of the following:

 

Modelu GWR point rodding stools.

Brassmasters cranks and signal wire wheels

Wills FPLs cranks and compensators

Alan Gibson 0.33mm brass wire for point rodding (GWR Practice at Burghclere - round rods not square like the Wills)

Fishing line (ultra thin) for signal wire

 

As a result of the above plan I now know I don't have enough wire or signal wire wheels or rodding stools. Wire on order, Stools on order. I initially guessed and ordered stools for three rods side by side, thinking I can cut them to 2s or 1s as required but they are TINY!!!!. As I don't have enough I have ordered some 4s and 2s so all bases (or stools! ) are covered

 

I have also determined that I will only model the top one of any stack of signal wire wheels, and will insert a 3mm clear plastic earring back underneath to mimic the extra height whilst providing something for the fishing line to turn against.That way the 18 I have will be enough.

 

If haven't seen already I've used the Modelu stools on my layout here and following posts, including my shopping list - not dissimilar to yours. Aside from the help I got on here I also referred to GWR Branchline Modelling Pt1 and some MRC articles from 1982.

 

Good luck and look forward to seeing it in due course on your layout

 

Jon

[colin penfold]

Some opinions please.

 

Testing out the look of a couple of alternative ways of representing the signal wire supports.

 

Both methods are pins. The thicker supports are 2mm beads. The thinner one is just a knot in the line with a blob of superglue.

 

 

 

[colin penfold]

Here's one with 4 "wires"

 

[bgman]

Right then, this seems like a very interesting project, I'm off to the start and wend my way through it ! See you later

 

P.S. I will pass your encouraging comments on to Iain when we next meet, I'm sure he'll be I tested in this project.

Edited November 5, 2016 by bgman

[colin penfold]

I have also fitted the operating mechanism to the ready to plant MSE signal. Its an MSE unit designed to work with wire in tube.

 

Here's a pic

 

 

And a video showing a test using the Mk1 prodder. If you look carefully there is a very subtle bounce.

 

[colin penfold]

Right then, this seems like a very interesting project, I'm off to the start and wend my way through it ! See you later

P.S. I will pass your encouraging comments on to Iain when we next meet, I'm sure he'll be I tested in this project.

Thanks BG. Im a massive fan of Iain and im really hoping the new book will out in time to be under my Christmas tree. Please pass on my regards.

[bgman]

Thanks BG. Im a massive fan of Iain and im really hoping the new book will out in time to be under my Christmas tree. Please pass on my regards.

Will do, now then, what an excellent project and thread. I've learnt more about the D&NS than my own back garden from reading through and I'm certainly impressed with your pragmatic approach as a whole.

It will certainly encourage me to adopt a similar approach when my project gets underway.

The "snippets" e.g. videos etc certainly help to get a real feel and atmos for this, in particular the video of village life as it was, such a great find and almost Pendon-Esk in its content.

I'm down for another follower.

BTW, to save me looking back, does the station roof have any "fancy" ironwork on the top? The reason I ask is because there is a laser cut version available if you need it from Scalemodelscenery ( I think )

ATB

Grahame

[bgman]

This may be helpful if you do need them

 

 

Usual disclaimer

 

Grahame

[colin penfold]

This may be helpful if you do need them

https://youtu.be/F4Kv53Nt3Qg

Usual disclaimer

Grahame

Thanks Grahame, I wish you had said that a few weeks back

 

I did eventually find that product and now have it in stock for when I return to building that building. Funny enough i mentioned it on ANTB but not here.

 

It does look very nice although its too big for Chesil and will need cutting down a bit.

[bgman]

Thanks Grahame, I wish you had said that a few weeks back

I did eventually find that product and now have it in stock for when I return to building that building. Funny enough i mentioned it on ANTB but not here.

 

So did I Colin when Rob was looking! hey ho !

[The Stationmaster]

How odd - my post from yesterday appears to have vanished into the electronic wilderness!

 

Anyway the key point (sorry) is that a rodding run would not be laid out the way you have it Colin as it is going through and alongside a  siding used for the sort of traffic that could contaminate the rodding rollers.  Runs would normally be laid parallel to running lines in the cess (and only in the six foot if there was no room in the cess) although it would still have to get through the crossovers of course.  Runs are also kept away from, or boarded over, areas where shunting staff would be working regularly and would normally cross under track as parallel as possible to the sleepers.

 

If you are going to do signal wire runs then really you ought to add detectors as well if you want things to look complete.  Someone might do an etch but I'm not sure on that one.

 

I've got quite a lot of relevant detail pics available if you need any showing virtually all the standard WR crank layouts.

[colin penfold]

How odd - my post from yesterday appears to have vanished into the electronic wilderness!

 

Anyway the key point (sorry) is that a rodding run would not be laid out the way you have it Colin as it is going through and alongside a  siding used for the sort of traffic that could contaminate the rodding rollers.  Runs would normally be laid parallel to running lines in the cess (and only in the six foot if there was no room in the cess) although it would still have to get through the crossovers of course.  Runs are also kept away from, or boarded over, areas where shunting staff would be working regularly and would normally cross under track as parallel as possible to the sleepers.

 

If you are going to do signal wire runs then really you ought to add detectors as well if you want things to look complete.  Someone might do an etch but I'm not sure on that one.

 

I've got quite a lot of relevant detail pics available if you need any showing virtually all the standard WR crank layouts.

Mike I always appreciate your knowledge and help but oddly the rodding run you are questioning is actually the bit that I got from a photo (Page 9 of Burghclere Signalman) which clearly shows the run taking a sudden right turn. It happens to be after the lime works siding was lifted but I cant see them doing it after the lift? I don't think I should post the photo but I will PM it to you. I honestly wouldnt have made it up to go that way cos it's more work!

[colin penfold]

How odd - my post from yesterday appears to have vanished into the electronic wilderness!

 

Anyway the key point (sorry) is that a rodding run would not be laid out the way you have it Colin as it is going through and alongside a  siding used for the sort of traffic that could contaminate the rodding rollers.  Runs would normally be laid parallel to running lines in the cess (and only in the six foot if there was no room in the cess) although it would still have to get through the crossovers of course.  Runs are also kept away from, or boarded over, areas where shunting staff would be working regularly and would normally cross under track as parallel as possible to the sleepers.

 

If you are going to do signal wire runs then really you ought to add detectors as well if you want things to look complete.  Someone might do an etch but I'm not sure on that one.

 

I've got quite a lot of relevant detail pics available if you need any showing virtually all the standard WR crank layouts.

Mike I'd love to see a photo of how the rodding splits on its way to a crossover, thanks.

[colin penfold]

Made the mockups for the station building and workers cottages today. Seen here with the goods shed I made previously.

 

[The Stationmaster]

Mike I always appreciate your knowledge and help but oddly the rodding run you are questioning is actually the bit that I got from a photo (Page 9 of Burghclere Signalman) which clearly shows the run taking a sudden right turn. It happens to be after the lime works siding was lifted but I cant see them doing it after the lift? I don't think I should post the photo but I will PM it to you. I honestly wouldnt have made it up to go that way cos it's more work!

Ah, but what you didn't say was it actually runs along by the fence and crosses the first siding (if not the second) at a right angle judging by the picture.

Mike I'd love to see a photo of how the rodding splits on its way to a crossover, thanks.

 

It doesn't actually split as such Colin.

 

The fitrst pic below shows how the drive is taken of the rod for one end (in this case the other end is a trap point but the principle is exactly the same)  This is something of a mish-mash of bits and pieces as it includes some Western parts and some BS parts but the way the point drive is taken off the bottom of a channel rod is exactly the same for both, with a round rod there was little difference except a (blacksmithed) lug was used instead of a pin joint bolted into the channel

 

 

This view shows how compensator cranks are arranged in a rodding run - the ones with the little dome caps are Western design, the other one is BS.  The way they are arranged on concrete beds is the usual Western method.

 

 

This view shows Western leading -off cranks of varying heights (it's from a ground frame but the principle is no different) and not how one other actually drives a rod running through from a point end on one side to another on the other side

 

 

This is also a ground frame installation but again the overall arrangement is the same (apart from the rather messy mixing of Western and lesser Railway practice).  The two rods coming from the right respectively drive the FPL and, dropping off the through rod to drive the switches while a single rod continues to drive the other end (again a trap) with a compensator between the two drives to equalise the pull & push for expansion control.  The point end in the first pic is actually temporarily worked by a hand lever but the detector rods and detector are already in position for a two arm ground disc.

 

 

[colin penfold]

Thanks Mike that's so helpful. I like the dome on the WR version - ideal to be represented by the head of a pin which will make assembly of the brassmasters cranks a good deal easier.

[The Stationmaster]

Thanks Mike that's so helpful. I like the dome on the WR version - ideal to be represented by the head of a pin which will make assembly of the brassmasters cranks a good deal easier.

 

The amusing thing about them is that they are removable to enable the bearing to be lubricated and they are held in place by a couple of bits of springy steel which drop down into the base casting.  You occasionally used to see spare ones lying about or one that the Lineman had conveniently forgotten to put back - probably because he couldn't compares the two bit of springy steel.

[colin penfold]

Having reached the middle of my week's modelling holiday I thought it might be time for an update. I have had to flit between tasks a bit because I ran out of some materials along the way but I have made decent progress and enjoyed myself too.

 

First thing was to set up the boards, glue cork trackbeds in place and start to lay out the wire in tube for the points (until I ran out of wire, and tube)

 

I then soldered all the droppers onto the pre made track (bought from Marcway) and put in a couple of extra rail breaks.

 

I then discovered another great use for greaseproof paper. Have you ever struggled to line up the wire droppers to holes in the baseboard for them to drop through? Me too - but not this time.

 

I laid out the track on a sheet of greaseproof and marked the tiebar holes and all the dropper positions on to it.

 

 

This is what it looks like afterwards

 

 

And here are the three sections reversed and laid on the baseboard using the tiebar positions as a reference

 

 

I was then able to drill the dropper holes exactly where required. A couple were quite close to wire in tube runs, hence the exclamation marks to remind me to be careful.

 

Next job was to finalise the exact position of the box and the adjacent starter.

 

 

The hole position was then marked out for the MSE manual control unit that plugs the signal into the board

 

 

 

Unfortunately I have got to get a replacement signal as this one (ready to plant) is too tall. The arm is way above the position of the sighting panel painted on the box, so I will have to make a shorter one

 

I then made the supporting structure for the platforms and had a dummy run  with mock buildings. Looks OK

 

 

Made and painted the brick platform edging

 

 

Still waiting for the balance of my wire and tube I had just enough to do the signal which is a bit different than the points. To accommodate the MSE control unit and make the signals removable, the wire is 3cm below the baseboard, unlike the points which are at board level. I made up a supporting structure for the wire in tube from plastic faced foamboard and the hot glue gun

 

 

It needed to approach the signal at 180 degrees from the direct route from the panel. First attempt was a semicircle. Here you can see how the wire pushes on the dangly bit of the signal mechanism to clear the signal

 

 

 

Sadly there was too much resistance in this so I replaced the semi circle with a couple of cranks

 

 

Having done all that I spent this afternoon designing the control panel and switch layout - more anon.  I hope to finish the panel tomorrow and hopefully postie will bring the rest of the wire and tube as I need to finish that before I can lay the track.

 

All the best for now

[colin penfold]

Good progress today. I have wired the electrical side of the control panel and finished off the wire-in-tube installation. Tomorrow will see the installation of the panel followed by tracklaying and connecting the track wiring to the panel.

 

Another little idea came to me today. Anybody else get confused which way is up when they are working upside down? I do, so I came up with the idea of writing on a piece of paper what wire goes through what hole. I did this working the right way up and poked each piece of paper into the appropriate hole. Then when I turn the boards upside down i will have a note of which wire is which without having to read my plan upside down!