Heljan class 60

[Cliff Williams]

Just finished a DCC sound installation on the Heljan Class 60, with mods and enhancements as I went along.

I have added cab lights, re-wired all the lighting directly to the chip, installed my exclusive CJW speakers and spent some time on the DCC set up.

Next up will be the Severn Mill plates and then some weathering.

[Vin]

Hi Cliff,

Sounds great and controllable lighting makes a massive difference. Have you combined the aux functions together for day/night time running and then programmed them to a function button?

I take it you won't be using the unsized black running numbers supplied with the loco?

 

Regards

Vin

That should say undersized black numbers.

[brian daniels]

You haven't by any chance used the smaller front numbers on the side?

[blueeighties]

Well, never mind the black marks, I thought I had been lucky and escaped the body damage. Upon opening this one, unfortunately not. You need to sort your packaging out pronto Heljan.

001 by rothburyuk, on Flickr

 

The first 2 being inspected for sound installation. I actually like the new light board, no resistors to solder in now, a quick swap of some terminals and they are in! Still all of the usual wire trimming, soldering, and alterations for the actual chip though.

005 by rothburyuk, on Flickr

[Cliff Williams]

Hi Vin

 

Yes I have the lights set up as daytime running lights on F0, then other function keys for cab lights, night time running lights, brake lights and engine bay lights.

 

Brian I have not fitted the numbers on the loco yet, Severn mill plates are on their way.

How are the sector transfers in the box? Worthy of use or best trashing them?

 

BW

Cliff

[steve fay]

I've heard from Heljan today and they are going to change the packaging due to the amount of damaged models that have arrived.

[Vin]

Hi Cliff,

That sounds like a good idea using F0 for daylight running. I'll program mine the same. When I get round to fitting the decoders.

 

The numbers are a bit small at a height of 2.8mm compared to the Fox ones I've used at 3.4mm in height.

 

The colours and the printing on the sub sector logos are too dark. I've put the Roundel colours in the 7mm section of special interests about the class 60 has arrived.

 

Regards

Vin

[deltic17]

I've heard from Heljan today and they are going to change the packaging due to the amount of damaged models that have arrived.

As I have not bought a class 60 (too modern for my layout!) - I have a question re packaging - is it still the foam packaging as used on all previous O guage diesels? as I had never seen any major problems with that approach. Hopefully they have not changed the loco packaging to the new flimsy,plastic packaging as has been seen on their wagons + guv's + others?....OR HAVE THEY??? When buying a £500+ heavy loco surely it has to be packaged correctly. I wonder what they are going to do with all the broken bodyshells?? along with a surplus of chassis.....

 

I would be interested if someone could enlighten me as to the current situation. Thanks in advance.

[Vin]

The problem with the packaging is at the ends of the boxes there is a high density foam with a clear plastic piece glued to it. On the the clear plastic are small rubber pads. This means there is a small footprint for impacts. So the locos have been moving sideways within the packaging and putting high loads on loco front ends. The worst effect of this I've heard are broken buffer beams, snapped at the screws. The commonist fault is the rubber pads damage the yellow warning panels, all of the ones I've had have had this damage. Fortunately a cotton bud with meths removes the black marks and doesn't destroy the paintwork. I've covered the rubber pads within the box with strips of electrical tape.

 

Regards

Vin

[steve fay]

Vin has explained it perfectly

[blueeighties]

I have just binned the daft plastic problem packing piece, the loco can then be safely cushioned with more appropriate packing material.

[deltic17]

The problem with the packaging is at the ends of the boxes there is a high density foam with a clear plastic piece glued to it. On the the clear plastic are small rubber pads. This means there is a small footprint for impacts. So the locos have been moving sideways within the packaging and putting high loads on loco front ends. The worst effect of this I've heard are broken buffer beams, snapped at the screws. The commonist fault is the rubber pads damage the yellow warning panels, all of the ones I've had have had this damage. Fortunately a cotton bud with meths removes the black marks and doesn't destroy the paintwork. I've covered the rubber pads within the box with strips of electrical tape.

 

Regards

Vin

Vin,

Thanks for clarifying - the question to Heljan it seems is why change the packaging when the old foam packaging used to do such a good job - put simply why try and fix it when it is not broken. The packaging cost is minimal compared to the loco cost and they will have certainly cost themselves a lot of money with all these broken bodyshells. As Steve has heard they are changing the packaging - hopefully they can revert to the old style foam packaging again for future projects.

deltic17

[bobster]

I presume that all the Class 60s have been delivered to Suppliers/Customers already, so am I right in thinking that unless there is a second batch in production in China there will not be new packaging for this Loco, just on future releases ?.

 

Cheers, Bob.

[skip37216]

I can't fault Bob's logic maybe Heljan think we are all stupid.

My EWS 60 suffered the black marks both ends but no damage and they managed to swap the DIL switches 3 with 4 and again easily rectified but what ever happened to Heljan policy of "right first time"?

As to their declared policy on the load haul cockup it beggars belief that they could be so crass.  A positive first step in apologising and offering money back but anyone who has bought a Load Haul 60 i'm sure does not want an apology and their money back but would much prefer for Heljan to man up, take responsibility and put it right. 

 

Regards

Norman

[Hilux5972]

I can't fault Bob's logic maybe Heljan think we are all stupid.

My EWS 60 suffered the black marks both ends but no damage and they managed to swap the DIL switches 3 with 4 and again easily rectified but what ever happened to Heljan policy of "right first time"?

As to their declared policy on the load haul cockup it beggars belief that they could be so crass. A positive first step in apologising and offering money back but anyone who has bought a Load Haul 60 i'm sure does not want an apology and their money back but would much prefer for Heljan to man up, take responsibility and put it right.

 

Regards

Norman

I completely agree Norman. Sure some people will repaint it themselves, but people like myself who are not experienced with repaints are just likely to steer clear. This was planned to be my first O Gauge loco but not with a glaring livery issue like that. Perhaps if a second batch is released and is correct.

[blueeighties]

I completely agree Norman. Sure some people will repaint it themselves, but people like myself who are not experienced with repaints are just likely to steer clear. This was planned to be my first O Gauge loco but not with a glaring livery issue like that. Perhaps if a second batch is released and is correct.

I have never known Heljan to release a 2nd batch of anything in o gauge.

[Hilux5972]

Way to dash my hopes. Thanks for that (!) :-)

Edited November 24, 2015 by Hilux5972

[Revolution Mike]

As to their declared policy on the load haul cockup it beggars belief that they could be so crass.  A positive first step in apologising and offering money back but anyone who has bought a Load Haul 60 i'm sure does not want an apology and their money back but would much prefer for Heljan to man up, take responsibility and put it right.

 

Easy to say, but where does the money come from? Unless the Chinese manufacturer is willing to accept the mistake (good luck with that) was there's and produce corrected bodyshells then I don't see how that happens.

[Hilux5972]

Easy to say, but where does the money come from? Unless the Chinese manufacturer is willing to accept the mistake (good luck with that) was there's and produce corrected bodyshells then I don't see how that happens.

That shouldn't matter. It is a Heljan product and therefore they should shoulder the responsibility and the cost. Bachmann did just that when they reissued the bodies for the 2-EPB when they were released with the incorrect numbers. The least Heljan could do is get the bodies returned and repaint them.

[steve fay]

Not all delivered yet, I'm waiting on a replacement model for a customer and I've been told that they are sorting the packaging out before they are dispatched.

It's not just Heljan, The couriers really need to look after the parcels whilst in their care a bit better.

[The Nth Degree]

Easy to say, but where does the money come from? Unless the Chinese manufacturer is willing to accept the mistake (good luck with that) was there's and produce corrected bodyshells then I don't see how that happens.

The money comes out of the profit, surely?

The responsibility lies with the person who signed off an incorrect livery, as appears in this case. If the fault was that the livery was applied wrongly after sign-off it would be the factory's fault and they would have to compensate in some way. Heljan would probably insist on new bodyshells in that case.

[blueeighties]

Easy to say, but where does the money come from? Unless the Chinese manufacturer is willing to accept the mistake (good luck with that) was there's and produce corrected bodyshells then I don't see how that happens.

That's a strange way to look at it. So if I buy a new tv tomorrow and it's faulty or not as described then the shop refuses to refund or exchange as 'the Chinese won't accept the error?' I don't think so. Regardless of what the item is, consumer law states the responsibility rests with the retailer from whom the goods were purchased from.

[BritishRail60062]

 

Well, never mind the black marks, I thought I had been lucky and escaped the body damage. Upon opening this one, unfortunately not. You need to sort your packaging out pronto Heljan.

001 by rothburyuk, on Flickr

 

The first 2 being inspected for sound installation. I actually like the new light board, no resistors to solder in now, a quick swap of some terminals and they are in! Still all of the usual wire trimming, soldering, and alterations for the actual chip though.

005 by rothburyuk, on Flickr

 

Its a shame that a model locomotive of that price turns up busted due to poor packaging. I was looking forward to getting one of these in December as well as a Xmas pressie to myself. Shame really as the models that are nearly £500 a shot have poor packaging .

[Revolution Mike]

That shouldn't matter. It is a Heljan product and therefore they should shoulder the responsibility and the cost. Bachmann did just that when they reissued the bodies for the 2-EPB when they were released with the incorrect numbers. The least Heljan could do is get the bodies returned and repaint them.

 

 

The money comes out of the profit, surely?

The responsibility lies with the person who signed off an incorrect livery, as appears in this case. If the fault was that the livery was applied wrongly after sign-off it would be the factory's fault and they would have to compensate in some way. Heljan would probably insist on new bodyshells in that case.

 

 

That's a strange way to look at it. So if I buy a new tv tomorrow and it's faulty or not as described then the shop refuses to refund or exchange as 'the Chinese won't accept the error?' I don't think so. Regardless of what the item is, consumer law states the responsibility rests with the retailer from whom the goods were purchased from.

 

Let's say that the sign off of the liveried sample was correct and the factory got it wrong in production.  You are right in theory that the factory *should* bear responsibility but should and will are two different things.  How do Heljan enforce something like that when they are comparatively small fry (and they are) in the factory's production?

 

As I said all fine in theory but starts to get more complicated in practice.  (Bachmann own their own factory so it is slightly (though I suspect not much!) easier).

 

We're not talking about consumer rights here (which are of course unchanged and Heljan have offered refunds anyway) but practicalities of getting an obviously incorrectly liveried body re-done.

[The Nth Degree]

How do Heljan enforce something like that when they are comparatively small fry (and they are) in the factory's production?

Commercial law is how. Size has nothing at all to do with it. How do you know Heljan's business is not a large contributer to this factory?

 

Your assumption 'seems' wrong - the press release said that the error was missed by both parties, suggesting that the factory wrongly translated the livery instructions and Heljan missed the error. Technically and legally Heljan is responsible if that were so. In your scenario the factory is at fault and would have to compensate Heljan to their satisfaction - whether that includes a new run of bodies, a discount on this or the next model, a good will gesture of some description, or however they decide to settle it between themselves.

 

You are right in saying the problem between the two parties is not covered by consumer law, it's commercial law, and that's much more powerful.