TheCuckoo Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Hi folks I have finally taken the plunge and started to hack up a Triang Dean SIngle, a well trodden path I know, but I fancy a go myself. The engine is in a bit of a mess but as far as I can tell the original motor seems fine and the weighty chassis is something I'd like to keep. I would like to upgrade the wheelset to something more modern as the flanges are horrible and I'm concerned that they may not give running through pointwork etc. The bogie is being rebuilt with an inside frame and the wheels there are easy to change, but the problem seems to be the main drivers. I see that Markits do a 9/64 axle for direct replacement on triang locos but I am scratching my head over the wheels themselves. I can see a 28mm and a 32mm wheel but I think I need 30mm wheels but they are nowhere to be found - have they gone out of production? Do I have any alternatives? Will gibson wheels fit? If so, what about the gear? What about the new-release Hornby SIngle - a complete set of drivers and rear wheels is pretty cheap but are obviously pointless if they are not a drop-in replacement. Sorry for all the questions but feeling a bit stumped thanks in advance ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
singlewheeler Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Is it just the appearance of the wheels you want to improve or have you had issues with pointwork? I have two Triang/Hornby Dean 4-2-2s one of which I bought to improve and one to hopefully convert to 2-2-2 (future project). One runs fine through a test track of several Peco Streamline code 100 points and a diamond crossing, while the driving wheel of the other bumps on the frogs. The trailing, bogie and tender wheels run through ok, so it could be a back-to back issue on the drivers. Not unexpected on a 40+ year old loco designed to be "played" with! I have no info on changing the drivers/axle sizes, but if you want to go down that route it might be worth considering slightly smaller diameter wheels all round to deal with the Triang legacy of buffer height being about 2mm or more higher than other manufacturers' or more modern Hornby stock. I have stuck with the original driving and trailing wheels on one, as they work ok. I fitted a bogie from the latest Chinese version (Abbiegail's or Peter's Spares) and fitted Gibson 3'8" wheels and the appearance is improved markedly. The biggest bonus is that having bogie pickups the low speed running is transformed through my insulfrog test track. It's the biggest improvement for the least work I have seen for years! The pickups need a bit of tweaking even on an out of the box loco for best results but it is worth it. I also fitted Gibson 4'3" wheels to the tender to replace the split axle ones. The original axles come out if you spread the axleboxes gently (Careful -it is old plastic). The Gibson wheels push on to the original axles with a bit of care as they are the same diameter as the Gibson ones. I got my wheels from, I think, Mainly Trains. If you follow the link given in the previous post there is much more information available. I might have been lucky, but both my motors seem to be strong smooth pullers, contrary to the experience of some other posters. I hope that this info is of some help. Singlewheeler Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
singlewheeler Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Hmm! I could have sworn that Admin had placed a link following the OP. Or is it me? I will try to get some more information together. I have got a wheelset somewhere for the latest version of the Dean Single, as I have a traction tyred loco (Royal Sovereign) which I wanted to keep a set of plain wheels for if the tyres became unavailable. The wheels for these are apparently interchangeable (as fitted to Lorna Doone). I will measure the axle diameter when I get a chance. The Triang/Hornby wheels are not so easy to take out, as the base plate has a very short wire to the suppressors/ motor and there is a risk of breaking it. It is possibly soldered in situ on assembly. I will see what I can do to measure the axle. There is an article by Knobhead on page 7 of this forum on converting to a 2-2-2 which might have some useful info and links if you haven't already seen it. If I can, I will swop the wheels to see if the axle/diameters/gears are compatible. Singlewheeler. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 One day I must have a go at re-wheeling mine. I changed from 00 to EM when I was about 16, which means it probably hasn't been run for over 40 years! It will definitely need finer flanges for EM! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCuckoo Posted October 19, 2013 Author Share Posted October 19, 2013 Thanks for the replies. Something I hadn't thought of was the Tr-iang ride height... perhaps 28mm wheels wouldn't be such a bad move after all. The reason I'd like to stick something newer on there is to freshen it up a bit - the old wheels are pretty grotty and rather chunky looking. They can be a little reluctant to run smoothly through both Peco and Hornby points - hence my original question. Yes, I've seen the 2-2-2 conversion and I think it looks fantastic - I think I'll end up having a bash at one of those myself. BG John - that broadguage stuff is gorgeous! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCuckoo Posted October 19, 2013 Author Share Posted October 19, 2013 A few pics of the progress so far and the wheels https://be6adf3a-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites.googlegroups.com/site/planetcuckoo/home/photos/image.jpeg?attachauth=ANoY7cr0Z71V-jt8OIItYxUI6aRLcrZRBMYo92Rolk2LjH7OvGnAQeCmTJVnlov-jtXJ8F9zMjfYjHwvqI-9HJD6xiZBE_YkZM42eTxYFhM9MFGmamiQObNx53rYjgCLm7nTJK01s6Y8296_gG1oLO2ReSak9Tb6_mhH58D_Ba3IGfiiaywL40cQX4CU53ExX9YiEOn4vZsXpd3CCsbcXAuUc80E3e9f4Z-wjKP5_n1Z6XngmsLb0yc%3D&attredirects=0 https://be6adf3a-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites.googlegroups.com/site/planetcuckoo/home/photos/image%20copy.jpeg?attachauth=ANoY7cpzpwTwm0AwcmV6QILF_HD6RiI0fYTryvM_zXdwQjidU6oFKWWOy3DPQyA6a-ecr01txX0uHVtURCRN74olTThGj6xptjpZp7mXrKly8XMUdF_7HBmRoJGowy4oJFLEnst1uscinrWftegt8E_Ngs4Lp3gcg9sEsePPYZuz5WHMFP2eZ0SB78xAkfRtjecwzzIpRrswHCtA83xeSm-t9xnjaMpgAHt8Q4EByzLP7vnpkoEC0ao%3D&attredirects=0 https://be6adf3a-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites.googlegroups.com/site/planetcuckoo/home/photos/image%20copy%202.jpeg?attachauth=ANoY7conkoKfsRdlv2YazbtoQdHVG9vZNDU1XkvgcLOF-NuTTlgB-K42h3LcgFQ0FtgYMCBVb_o7MzHv0GnLDJKy43mGk_DfFlnviP0lZNSt4VafpuQ0Uoei9GP_k4reUR8kvRrutMfTi4gL3D7Qa19ud_OARUpccehn0mfDOhfwkQO9y9C1t1avgcyMuM1d8lgIwm8wY7qmUPFKwrzb05KAXala7V6ZTc331hRNb4SjrmWpdJRE3gk%3D&attredirects=0 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian777999 Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 A few pics of the progress so far and the wheels I could not get those links to work. Could you post some photos directly on to this site ? I am very interested in what you are doing. The ride height on these locos is far to high and I would love to be able to do something about it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCuckoo Posted October 19, 2013 Author Share Posted October 19, 2013 Does this work Brian? (edited to show pictures from gallery) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian777999 Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Does this work Brian? No, I am sorry but it does not work. I am in China at the moment so many sites are blocked. Perhaps that is the reason. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
singlewheeler Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 If it's still of interest, I have measured the wheelset for the China made version of the Dean Single. The axles are supplied with brass bushes, The axle for the driver and trailing wheel is 1/8" diameter, with the bushes being 7/32 in diameter. The driving wheel bushes are shouldered. The gear is of black plastic. Due to the bushes I was unable to put the driving wheel in place to check the meshing but the trailing wheel (with the bushes pushed to the middle) seems to be a good fit in both axle slots in the chassis. It is possible that with the bushes removed this wheelset could provide a solution to the coarse wheel problem. It may be possible to re use the original gear if the axle is compatible. It depends how you feel about being able to press the wheels back on accurately with the correct back-to back. At least there will be no quartering issues! Just another option to consider. Singlewheeler Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCuckoo Posted October 21, 2013 Author Share Posted October 21, 2013 Thanks Singlewheeler - useful stuff. I thik I'm going to order some bits and have a play around to see what suits. cheers ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCuckoo Posted October 24, 2013 Author Share Posted October 24, 2013 The postman arrived yesterday with a bag full of goodies from Alan Gibson, so I can start mucking about in earnest. Initial indications seem to suggest that fitting something approaching prototype-diameter wheels to the bogie is achievable - and it makes the front-end look a whole lot better - The bogie frame sits at a better height and the daylight all but dissapears. Some filing of the chassis was required to make sure the bogie can move freely without the wheel rims fouling underneath (and likewise the bogie frames themselves needed some work to get the larger wheels to fit in the first place. The bogie wheels I have been using so far are old Jackson and the new Gibson ones are ever so slightly larger again (another 0.5mm I think) so more fettling might be in order. We shall see. As for replacing the driving and trailing wheels, the jury is still out, but I am hoping that I can persuade the Gibson wheels to sit nicely on the existing axles. This will have the knock-on effect of reducing the ride height by about 1mm I think... which may or may not affect the bogie modifications! So I am in for some fun over the weekend. I'll post some pictures of the modifications when I have something definate to show. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCuckoo Posted October 25, 2013 Author Share Posted October 25, 2013 Some pics from yesterday's experiments... This is the general plan for the bogie. A Branchlines City of Truro bogie subframe hides inside the Triang cast outside frame. The triang frames have been filed here and there to give sufficient clearance for the larger wheels, particularly at the rear of the frame. The wheels here are Alan Gibson 4'1" 1/2. The modifications to the main chassis are also clear - plenty of filing to get the required clearance. This is the bogie assembled with the Gibson wheels shewing the lack of clearance at the top. This is the bogie assembled with an old set of Jackson 16mm wheels. Visually, the effect is much the same but there is a sliver of clearance at the top. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skaran Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 Just wondering if anyone has modified one of these into one of its later forms such as raised Belpaire domed boiler, drumhead smokebox and new cab? I was wondering because my layout is set in 1913 and the only unmodified Single I can find is 3059 John W. Wilson for which name and number plates may be a problem, whereas 3071 Emlyn lasted until late 1914 with these modifications. Thoughts and suggestions welcome. I have both an old Triang Dean Single and an unmade up M&L Kit. I also have a stack of the Dapol City of Truro kits if any bits from this would be useful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian777999 Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 Some pics from yesterday's experiments... This is the general plan for the bogie. A Branchlines City of Truro bogie subframe hides inside the Triang cast outside frame. The triang frames have been filed here and there to give sufficient clearance for the larger wheels, particularly at the rear of the frame. The wheels here are Alan Gibson 4'1" 1/2. The modifications to the main chassis are also clear - plenty of filing to get the required clearance. This is the bogie assembled with the Gibson wheels shewing the lack of clearance at the top. This is the bogie assembled with an old set of Jackson 16mm wheels. Visually, the effect is much the same but there is a sliver of clearance at the top. 1. Why didn't you use the Hornby X9657 bogie for the Hornby Dean Single rather than the Bachmann City of Truro bogie ? 2. How did you get the wheels out of the bogie on the LOTI ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCuckoo Posted December 14, 2013 Author Share Posted December 14, 2013 Hi Brian No, it wasn't a Bachmann City of Truro but an old Branchlines kit I used for the bogie subframe. Mainly because I had it lying around from a failed attempt to build the Branchlines conversion kit for the Dapol plastic kit. I got the wheels out the bogie by gentle persuasion with a screwdriver - though they were fairly loose to start with. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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