The Stationmaster Has Been to an Auction -

[Dee-Ess]

The unidentified 36XX (in post 68), thought to be at Tyseley, is in fact alongside the goods shed at Birmingham Moor Street Station.

[The Stationmaster]

I agree with PD&SWJR. Could '4450' be a typo for 4405?

 

 

It could well be - the loco is - I'm fairly sure - a 44XX and Wellington had several on its strength over the years but alas even on big enlargement the number on the loco is totally illegible except for the second digit which appears to be a 4.  I shall amend the note in line with your thoughts Miss P (and not even blame you 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Post 66, last photo:

 

Definitly Hengoed high level

 

Hengoed.jpg

 

Just decipherable:

 

Hengoed high level

 

change for

 

Cardiff, Caerphilly xxxxxxxxx

 

Don't know really much about the Welsh valleys, but do have a nice photoshop program...

 

No photoshopping involved Jan _ I scanned the print (on an Epson V500) at 1200dpi keeping the image to c.2mb then reduced it to whichever horizontal or vertical fitted the RMweb max recommended size and saved it at c.550 kb.  Not having any time or inclination to do so last night I named the scan as Low Level as noted on the original print but felt very uneasuy about iti

[The Stationmaster]

Oxford, for the Metro tank??

I have now done some further delving on this one - what worried me about it not being Oxford was, as I said earlier,  the presence of the two chimneys of unequal height in the background but I have now found another picture of Oxford shed which includes them - albeit not as obviously as in the Metro picture.  It is also becoming increasingly clear that a number of the photos were taken at Oxford so although it might not be 'scientific' it does add credence to this one also being at Oxford with other facts fitting in as well.

 

There will incidentally be one rather surprising Oxford picture to come .......

[Happy Hippo]

Mike,

 

The picture of the unidentified 44/45xx tank at (possibly Wellington)

 

Judging by the short gap between the rear and centre driver would indicate a 44xx.  the 45xx as you well know had a 'reversed wheelbase' to the 44.

 

Lovely photos, the Welsh stuff is making me a very Happy Hippo just as you suggested it would in ERs

 

Regards

 

Richard!

[The Stationmaster]

Right - here are some more for Richard to make him even happier I hope, and give him something to puzzle over perhaps?  (BTW I am certain the 44XX is at Wellington, the shed building is a perfect match to what I've delved out elsewhere.

 

So we start with GWR No.230, ex BR No.30, an 0-6-2T of Class B.  The location has more than hint of Radyr about it but I was under the impression that the Barry engines weren't allocated there and mainly stayed on home territory - someone will no doubt be able to offer firmer information, maybe?

 

 

The rear end of 1709 on the left but the main subject is GWR No.2166 ex BPGV No.13.  RegrettablY I cannot place the location at all, it might possibly be Llanelly but the shed building roof detail is not quite right and it isn't Burry Port.  the engine was based at Neath for many years (thanks Brian) but I still can't make the view fit either Neath shed.

 

 

In this case the engine number is noted on the print as 5687 and is assumed to be correct from what little can be made out on a cruel enlargement.  The location is not noted but cannot be anywhere but the seemingly oft photographed Abergwynfi -

 

 

A nice line up at Barry with only the leading loco identified - GWR No.386 ex TVR No.400 of Class A.  Other locos are all of Barry Railway origin judging from what can be seen of them but Penrhos has now corrected me and pointed out that thh second one in the line is an ex RR engine of of Class A, A1 or R, thanks -

 

 

 

Now a very spick and span looking GWR No.46 ex RR No.97 of Class R.  Unidentified location which might possibly be Caerphilly works?

 

 

And finally a real puzzle starting with 'what'? and quickly moving on to 'where'?  By the time I scanned this last night I was in no mood for detective work so didn't start digging although I've had a bit of a delve today and think the location is probably Caerphilly Works.  The 'what' would appear to be of TVR origin and might possibly be Class 04? The final digit of the number is fairly certainly a 6 while the one in front of it looks as if it might be a 9 but could be a partially obscured 8 - and one of the O4s was numbered 296 while another became 286; 286 was cut up at Barry in 1949 while 286 was cut-up at Swindon in 1950.  So maybe the locos in the picture were waiting decision at Caerphilly?

 

Edited October 28, 2013 by The Stationmaster

[Mikkel]

And now another mystery one - clearly a large prairie but even at very large magnification it is near impossible to make out the number while the location is unknown to me so no help from that - but someone might know? It has potentially been identified as Cookham which does fit quite well (thanks David) but further info to confirm would be helpful

 

 

 

 

 

I'm warming to Cookham, having looked at the comparison pics 'the other way around'.

 

Me too, there's an online view halfway down this page which seems fairly conclusive (station sign, houses in background and footbridge)....

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rail-Photo-GWR-042t-Cookham-station-BerkshireTaplow-bourne-end-/390646237993?nma=true&si=M1uLdTKE9cbctZdZE1A7M8xYL%252Fc%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

[The Stationmaster]

Me too, there's an online view halfway down this page which seems fairly conclusive (station sign, houses in background and footbridge)....

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rail-Photo-GWR-042t-Cookham-station-BerkshireTaplow-bourne-end-/390646237993?nma=true&si=M1uLdTKE9cbctZdZE1A7M8xYL%252Fc%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Thank you Mikkel - I think that is now confirmatory enough in view of my establishing that all the far background stuff, railway wise, fits for Cookham and the house roofs also match (and still do on Google Maps) and that telegraph pole also fits (it's there through the steam in the 61XX picture which I posted (not a 41XX - all large prairies looked very similar in later years, unlike panniers).

 

So I will alter it to confirm as Cookham and trust that Miss P will be happy - thanks, in particular, to David for leading us there in the first place.

[David Bigcheeseplant]

Hi Mike
is there any chance you could send me a highg res scan of the Cookham photo, as you might know the Wycombe line is a pet subject. my email address is bigcheeseplant@googlemail.com
If you have any any other photos that may be on the line in your new collection can you post them please
regards
David

[The Stationmaster]

Hi Mike

is there any chance you could send me a highg res scan of the Cookham photo, as you might know the Wycombe line is a pet subject. my email address is bigcheeseplant@googlemail.com

If you have any any other photos that may be on the line in your new collection can you post them please

regards

David

Duly sent sending David - as it's 2mb I hope it gets through (once it has left me that is - it is taking its time to upload!)

[Happy Hippo]

I have also enlarged the photo, and I think the last digit may be a 0!!, so it may be 4400?  Definitely a 44 though, as the rear driving wheel has 10 spokes.  From other photos of 44s and 45s, the 44s had 10 spokes, the 45s had 14.

 

 

44xx allocations as per GWR archive:

 

http://www.greatwestern.org.uk/262_4400det.htm

 

(Saves me rewriting and appearing more learned than I actually am!)

 

 

Regards

 

Richard

 

PS I have an unstarted  Mitchell 44xx and I'm torn between building it as a Wellington engine, as it is local to where I live, or as one of the Tondu locos which would fit in with my SW Valleys project.....Decisions decisions!

[The Stationmaster]

I have also enlarged the photo, and I think the last digit may be a 0!!, so it may be 4400?  Definitely a 44 though, as the rear driving wheel has 10 spokes.  From other photos of 44s and 45s, the 44s had 10 spokes, the 45s had 14.

The last digit does indeed look like a 0 but the interesting thing is when I look at the original scan the third digit definitely seems to have something across the middle so I can see why it might have been read on the print or neg as a 5 (it is best described as an 'S' on the original scan!).  I think part of the answer might lie in trying to run down what locos of the class were at Wellington and when.   The picture is - I'm reasonably sure - pre 1948 as the adjacent pannier does not have a smokebox numberplate and it has a white lamp on the bufferbeam (the lamp on the 44XX might be red, difficult to tell.  The outside steampipe locos were 4400 from 1935, 4406 from 1932, 4407 from 1945, 4408 from 1948, and 4410 from 1936 so it must be one of them - trouble is in most cases the digits in their numbers could fit with what we can see on the scan!

 

It's amazing how much enjoyment you can get out of a packet of old photos isn't it?

[Happy Hippo]

Mike,

 

The picture of the 56xx with 4 coaches at Abergwynfi shows that the apparent underlength platforms we see on some model railway terminii are not unrealistic.

 

Considering it was nothing more than a single platform with a run around loop and a siding behind the platform leading off to the colliery, it might appear slightly oversignalled.

 

See:  http://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/gwl/S1894.htm

 

Regards

 

Richard

[David Bigcheeseplant]

Duly sent sending David - as it's 2mb I hope it gets through (once it has left me that is - it is taking its time to upload!)

Thanks Mike recived ok, just noticed it looks like a GWR concertia coach in the train

[The Stationmaster]

44xx allocations as per GWR archive:

 

http://www.greatwestern.org.uk/262_4400det.htm

 

(Saves me rewriting and appearing more learned than I actually am!)

 

 

Regards

 

Richard

 

PS I have an unstarted  Mitchell 44xx and I'm torn between building it as a Wellington engine, as it is local to where I live, or as one of the Tondu locos which would fit in with my SW Valleys project.....Decisions decisions!

Thanks for answering the question before I posted it!  If we assume the engines at Wellington/Much Wenlock in 1947 were the original 5 which were sent there before the war that narrows the field down to 4400 or 4406.  4407 seems to have been in and stayed in Devon when it received outside steampipes while 4408 was at Tondu and 4410 was also in Devon.

[The Stationmaster]

Mike,

 

The picture of the 56xx with 4 coaches at Abergwynfi shows that the apparent underlength platforms we see on some model railway terminii are not unrealistic.

 

Considering it was nothing more than a single platform with a run around loop and a siding behind the platform leading off to the colliery, it might appear slightly oversignalled.

 

See:  http://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/gwl/S1894.htm

 

Regards

 

Richard

The signalling at Abergwynfi has long fascinated me - especially the Home Signal although it is not unique in having a small arm like that reading into a siding.

[The Stationmaster]

Thanks Mike recived ok, just noticed it looks like a GWR concertia coach in the train

Glad it worked David - and yes it does doesn't it.

[Flood]

I keep reading that 44xx as ?480. Looking through a few books and the net I know that 4480 never existed and neither did 1480 but that third digit really does look like an 8.

 

Is it possible that the 44xx class were going to be renumbered 4480-4490 to leave room for more 45xx locos (or the 48xx class was going to become 44xx not 14xx) but the decision was quickly reversed? Perhaps I am just clutching at straws.

Edited October 27, 2013 by Flood

[The Stationmaster]

I keep reading that 44xx as ?480. Looking through a few books and the net I know that 4480 never existed and neither did 1480 but that third digit really does look like an 8.

 

Is it possible that the 44xx class were going to be renumbered 4480-4490 to leave room for more 45xx locos (or the 48xx class was going to become 44xx not 14xx) but the decision was quickly reversed? Perhaps I am just clutching at straws.

I don't argue with you at all reading it like that - the third digit can quite easily be read as an 8 (or an S or a 5) so it is all rather perplexing.  I'm begining to wonder if something had hit the numberplate or if it was just the way in which it had got dirty?  Numberplate damage - without damage around it - was definitely unusual but I have seen instances of it.  However I think - whatever the plate appears to say - we are now reasonably settled on either 4400 or 4406 - with or without some odd renumbering taking place for a short period.

[Happy Hippo]

One of my father's uncles used to cast the plates and the various numbers/letters.

 

Sadly he is no longer with us, but he was a bit of a joker, so it wouldn't surprise me if he and his mates had cast a few spoof numbers to fool the spotters!!

 

Regards

 

Richard

[The Stationmaster]

One of my father's uncles used to cast the plates and the various numbers/letters.

 

Sadly he is no longer with us, but he was a bit of a joker, so it wouldn't surprise me if he and his mates had cast a few spoof numbers to fool the spotters!!

 

Regards

 

Richard

Just stay calm until you see the next lot - later today, I'll put the Welsh ones up first for you although there are only 3.

[The Stationmaster]

Right, these are the last of Friday's scans and are an interesting mixture of places, eras, and origins.

 

First we have 1076 Class No.1134 built in 1874 as a saddle tank, converted to pannier tanks in 1914 and withdrawn in 1931.  The location has now been positively identified as Oxford Shed with the coal stage in the background.

 

 

Now much nearer to my old stamping ground we find 6112 on Reading Shed in Septr 1960 (and in case anyone asks that is not me bunking the shed in the background - not that I didn't do it!)

 

 

Back to Wales for an unidentified ex RR engine of Class P1 (thanks Penrhos).  I have seen a similar view published somewhere in the past so if anyone knows of a copyright on this please let me know and it will be removed - refer to Chris F's post, No.108.

 

 

Still a Welsh flavour, but most likely at Swindon, we see GWR No.168, ex R&SB No.28 which was withdrawn late in 1932 and was probably awaiting its fate whwen this picture was taken.

 

 

Also at Swindon is a lovely little survivor - 2012 was the final survivor of the 850 Class, built in 1894 as a saddle tank it acquired its pannier tanks in 1910, one of the first of its class to do so, and its longevity was due to its use in Birkenhead Docks

 

 

Now turning the clock back a good many years we find a beautifully clean Metro tank in relatively early condition (but some way from original, the class underwent many changes) - location unknown.

 

 

And not so far back, and in much later condition, we have No.1421 of the 517 Class.

 

 

 

And now for something fairly different - GWR No.13 84 was ex BR No.83 - an 0-8-2T tank of Class H and certainly not in the run of the mill 0-6-2T wheel arrangement so heavily favoured by the Valleys Companies; it was withdrawn in 1930.  I have been reminded that it is of course at Barry Shed.

 

Edited October 28, 2013 by The Stationmaster

[br2975]

In the post above, the Rhymney 'R' Class loco is viewed from inside the shed at Rhymney, the chocolate and cream carriage being in one of the station platforms; and the BR 0-8-2T is at Barry.

.

Brian R

[Fat Controller]

I notice 2012 has 'LLY' on the side of the footplate; was this one of the engines sent to replace the L&MMR's fleet?

2166 was at Neath from July 1928 until November 1929, then at Swansea (East Dock) until withdrawal on 10/05/1955; the shed roof at East Dock looks to have the same arrangement of ventilators on the roof as the photo. Llanelly's would have been different, as it was arranged around turntables, rather than being a straight-road shed. There aren't many photos of the outside of Llanelly shed; mind you, I'm not sure I'd want to have been around that bit of town with a camera..

Edited October 27, 2013 by Fat Controller

[Miss Prism]

I think Buffalo 1134 is at Oxford.
 

 

[chrisf]

I knew I had seen the Rhymney shed pic in post #104 before.  It appears on page 99 of R C Riley's Great Western Album No. 2 and is credited to F M Butterfield.  The date given is 20th April 1935 and the loco number is quoted as 78.

 

Chris