Oswestry Works Diorama

[Simond]

Oh yes, and 18.2....

 

Simon

[alanbuttler]

Alan

 

I'm sitting in a hotel in Poland (work trip), dining alone, and have been delighted and amazed by your project as I ate my goose, polenta and horseradish sauce (actually rather better than it sounds!!!) and sipped my Zywiec.

 

Hi Simon, thank you for taking time to stop by and for your encouraging comments and thoughts on the magnets.  I'm really pleased that what I have researched and designed so far is giving people enjoyment, even though I'm many months away yet from something you could tangibly call a layout!  Firstly, your dinner sounded great, I've spent some time in Poland and loved the food, and the beer of course...

 

The laser cutting has been stalled for some months now, not just because of work constraints, but finding a large enough laser cutter.  I'm really excited though that I'll be working on the cutting with Tim Horn who in my opinion produces the most professional and accurate laser cut buildings I've seen on the web.  With his help I was able to produce the test cross section of the works entrance.  I met him at ScaleForum North last weekend and got to see some of his work up close, it really is exceptional.   It also means the works elevations can be cut in one piece, nearly 800mm wide.  I'm a lot more confident about the scope of the project now with Tim's expertise to learn from.

 

The traverser is almost ready, I need a few hours at the hackspace on the cutter to produce a test jig for trialling the leadscrew/stepper/arduino operation, then its the real test with the magnets.  I've been lucky to find some more photos of the traverser, in total I now know of 4 after spending many months searching.  This one is one of the clearest yet and has given me a few more things to think about cosmetically for the traverser:

 

 

I'll take some time over your looking through your links when I have some free time, sounds great I'd love for one day to get Oswestry works re-cut in O Gauge, now that would be something, with the fantastic quality of O Gauge locomotives.  I think I'd need to win the lottery first though, the works has 30 OO Gauge locos on its books at the moment!

 

Thanks again for the very kind comments, much appreciated.

[Neilgue]

Alan

 

I'm sitting in a hotel in Poland (work trip), .......

I'm not sure if this is one-upmanship, but I'm sitting in a hotel in Shanghai (work trip).

 

You certainly get around Alan!

[alanbuttler]

I'm not sure if this is one-upmanship, but I'm sitting in a hotel in Shanghai (work trip).

 

You certainly get around Alan!

I'm in Crawley, not sure that could ever be considered in one upmanship :-) unless it was a competion of places you'd rather not be in! Enjoy Shanghai Neil

[alanbuttler]

With all this time spent working away, the few moments I get at home to try and start making some progress I'm more than a little daunted by where my enthusiasm and ambition has taken me!  Reading back through the posts on here I'm repeatedly apologising for the lack of progress, whilst in the same breath dramatically increasing the scope of the project  

 

What started out as a small photography orientated diorama has rapidly become something much bigger, with historical accuracy my main driver.  In deciding on a prototypical gauge (either EM or P4, not sure yet) another new world has opened up, but definitely one I think it needs to do it justice.   However it's brought me to a bit of a log-jam with what to do next.  I've dabbled with loco detailing, with the arduino, with 3D and the laser cutter and now looking at chassis building and regauging.

 

I think what's got me a bit stalled is the reality that it will be many years to achieve what I've set out to do given my work constraints.  So this has all got me thinking of what I can realistically achieve with the time I have, what can be enjoyable and what can continue to keep things interesting.  Longer term I still want to build the works as detailed in this thread, but I think the scope of it is too large for me to grapple with currently.    Part of it is undoubtedly a little impatience on my part to see the works built, and detailed loco's inside it, but with only a couple of hours to spare a week it's a pipe dream.  A well researched pipe dream!

 

'Oswestry Works Lite'

 

So, to cut a long story short I've decided to downsize the project until I get more time, and build 'Oswestry Works Lite', effectively a 4 bay wide cross section of the works.  This will be OO Gauge, so I can get to see the results of detailing/weathering within the works and trial ideas and techniques on a smaller version of the works.    I think part of my inaction was due to worrying about inexperience and making a mistake with the 3D design, or the traverser and effectively throwing away hours and hours of time on the laser cutter.  As it stands, the approx laser time would be 100-125 hours!   With the testing of techniques and experience from working on Lite version, I should hopefully be able to construct an even better full size model with any issues ironed out on what is a 3rd of the size.

 

Tonight I've had the foamboard mock up and the cameras out, to see how much or little of the works I can model.  4 bays worth seems about right, that gives me enough room to play with the traverser and test the magnets and stop/start functions.   Here is the scope of the project:

 

Oswestry Works Lite Sketchup

 

It also lets me get right in there unimpeded with the camera and able to get somewhere near the kind of photos you would in the actual works:

 

Oswestry Works Lite trial shots

 

And these last 2 should give a clear vision of what I'm hoping to achieve, after a little jiggery-pokery in Photoshop!

 

Oswestry Works Lite trial shots

 

Photoshop Mockup

 

Thanks to everyone for the kind comments, encouragement, ideas and interest, I hope by changing focus and downsizing (temporarily!)  I can continue to post interesting progress on Oswestry Works.

[Rabs]

In my opinion your design change is an improvement - not a compromise!  I love the idea of getting a view inside the works.  The Farthing layouts are among my favourites and I can see that, with your new design, you could use some of the same tricks to make a really interesting model.

[PaternosterRow]

Hi Alan,

 

been away a few weeks so it was a treat to come back and get a bit of an Oswestry fix!  Agree with Rabs, think this a very sensible approach and it definitely isn't a compromise in my opinion. You'll get loads out of this even though it has been cut down to four bays.  It's a great way to work out design and perfect technique and at a later date you can always add on another four bays etc.  I've always loved these type of sectional models as you actually get to see much more detail and not less!  My first Barrow Hill model was a much cut down round house version (it looked much more train set than decent attempt), but I learned so much out of it and it gave me the confidence to construct my full scale version to a much higher standard later on - especially with the roof and smoke stacks.  

 

That last Photoshop pic really got me watering at the mouth and I've no doubt, given the detail you've already put in to the traverser, that this is how your model will turn out.  Keep going what ever you do and finish this four bay section.  I have noticed over the last five years since I came back to the hobby that the standard just gets higher and higher with every year and this layout is really up there with the best of them.  Can't wait to see the development of the overhead crane.  

 

Mike

[Rabs]

Another thought, looking at your photoshop pic.  Is there an opportunity for you to use this for this year's RMWeb challenge?  Seeing that 'enormous' chain in front of shot got me thinking.

[alanbuttler]

Rabs, Mike, thanks for your thoughts on the matter, it's good to know we're on the same wavelength!  It's occupied my mind for a long time now, nagging away and I couldn't put a finger on what was causing me to falter.  It now seems obvious that the scope was too big as a first serious attempt at a finescale diorama.

 

After sleeping on the decision and now reading your helpful comments, I can see it is definitely the right course of action and I feel much better about the whole thing and re-invigorated!  Another factor was in considering the realities of switching to EM or P4, it might take a year or so to build the works, but then many years again to actually see anything inside it!   Chassis building does look like something I'd enjoy and after seeing the High Level Chassis' at ScaleForum I know that they'll feature in the final works model in years to come.   But in the mean time, I'll cut my teeth on the OO works lite

 

It also gives me an opportunity to rework the Sketchup model into something more modular, the current design evolved over many weeks of work and learning as I went along.  With this cross section of the works I'll be able to clean up the artwork and make it easily scaleable to the full 12 roads.

 

As ever, thanks for the feedback! It's much appreciated.

[JeffP]

Out of interest, how was the real traverser powered?

 

Sorry if this has been asked before.

[alanbuttler]

Out of interest, how was the real traverser powered?

 

Sorry if this has been asked before.

 

Hi Jeff, no worries I don't think its been asked before It was hand powered, I think in one of pictures I posted a few months back with the 8F's you can just about see the apparatus.  Quite similar but a little more heavy duty that the mechanism in this image of Stafford Rd Works - http://www.rail-online.co.uk/p384975830/h45b419fa#h45b419fa

[JeffP]

Fascinating shot, the closer wheels are, in fact, two pairs, the outer of each pair being flanged, the inners flangless.

 

The further wheels appear all to be connected to allow powering.

[Focalplane]

Hi Alan, just been through your entire thread and what an Interesting project! I lived in Oswestry in the late 1950s and used to do the sheds many a Sunday. The Works were visited often, with the dukedogs and the two W&L stored. I don't think there was much else going on in 1960 but I may be wrong. Lots of steam on shed, mainly Manors, light standards, etc. And, of course the 14XX for the old Gobowen Rattler auto train.

 

Your 3D modeling fascinates me. I think I may be old school now!

[alanbuttler]

Hi Focalplane, thanks for taking time to read back through, I'm glad its been of interest.  Its great to hear that you've been to the works and shed before the end, if you have any other recollections or thoughts on the project I'd be very interested to hear  How did you gain entry into the works may I ask?   I've heard that there were 2 large gates to the works yard, where the path crossed the 2 lines.  Was that the main entrance?

 

Cheers

Al

[Focalplane]

Hi Focalplane, thanks for taking time to read back through, I'm glad its been of interest.  Its great to hear that you've been to the works and shed before the end, if you have any other recollections or thoughts on the project I'd be very interested to hear  How did you gain entry into the works may I ask?   I've heard that there were 2 large gates to the works yard, where the path crossed the 2 lines.  Was that the main entrance?

 

Cheers

Al

Sundays were lax at the time, we just asked at the shed superintendent's office and were usually allowed in. I do remember the large gates but all else is rather vague. I have read that the four stored locos inside the Works were kept off the Western Region's books so that they would not be scrapped.

[Mikkel]

What started out as a small photography orientated diorama has rapidly become something much bigger, with historical accuracy my main driver.  In deciding on a prototypical gauge (either EM or P4, not sure yet) another new world has opened up, but definitely one I think it needs to do it justice.   However it's brought me to a bit of a log-jam with what to do next.  I've dabbled with loco detailing, with the arduino, with 3D and the laser cutter and now looking at chassis building and regauging.

 

I think what's got me a bit stalled is the reality that it will be many years to achieve what I've set out to do given my work constraints.  So this has all got me thinking of what I can realistically achieve with the time I have, what can be enjoyable and what can continue to keep things interesting. 

 

 

Hi Alan, those words really struck a cord with me. I think your solution of scaling down on the scope of things is the right one - partly because such an approach can help minimize the risk of loosing motivation - but defientely also because your photos show just how good it will look even with your revised plan.

 

I sometimes wonder where the emerging "view inside a building" approach comes from. Is it maybe a development that has come about as a result of the digital camera, or a reflection of a gradual merging of diorama building and railway modelling? Or simply a broader response in the hobby to decades of viewing layouts from a bird's eye view perspective? I wonder if there are examples of "view inside building" layouts from earlier days?

[alanbuttler]

I sometimes wonder where the emerging "view inside a building" approach comes from. Is it maybe a development that has come about as a result of the digital camera, or a reflection of a gradual merging of diorama building and railway modelling? Or simply a broader response in the hobby to decades of viewing layouts from a bird's eye view perspective? I wonder if there are examples of "view inside building" layouts from earlier days?

 

From my perspective the digital camera plays a large part as I enjoy photography, size is another factor as I don't have the room do get the kind of scenes (again on camera) that I would like for a traditional layout.  I'm thinking wide sweeping scenic vista's inspired by Pendon should I ever have the room!  Machynlleth at one end and Moat Lane Jct the other, with Talerddig in the middle!

 

Back to reality... it has to be said your diorama's must have played a very large part in the trend, they certainly did for me!

 

Also I think maybe an influx of people coming back to modelling in adult life with time (to an extent!) and money to spend might have something to do with it.  Compensating for lack of space for a dedicated layout, with high levels of realism and digital/macro photography with a narrow focus of subject.

 

I also used to enjoy building Tamiya WWII diorama's so it's been good bringing ideas and techniques from that world into railway modelling.

[Mikkel]

Interesting points, also about the lack of space. Which reminds me also that the whole micro-layout may have something to do with it. Although there aren't many "inside" views on the Carl Arendt site, it's not far from there to "putting a roof" over a micro.

 

Me I have nothing to do with it (but kind of you to say so), I know that goods shed interiors have been done before, see e.g. the views inside Chris Baker's superb little goods shed.

 

I wonder where it's going in the future. The bar certainly getting raised very quickly for this approach here on RMweb at the moment, by you and several others employing new techniques. I expect we'll also see some more cross-over modelling between railway modellers and general diorama modellers. Imagine guys like this turning to railway models:  http://www.finescalerr.com/smf/index.php?topic=1967.0

[alanbuttler]

Thanks for those links Mikkel, I'd not seen Chris Baker's work before, superb stuff.  And the Farier shop, wonderful - I've seen another link I think on RMWeb of amazing interior diorama's but I can't find the link unfortunately.  If I remember rightly they were of 1940's/50's workshops oozing with atmosphere.  I've got to say I'm tempted by a future O gauge project of a corner of the works, to get that extra level of workaday detail.

 

I went to my first show a few weeks back, at Alexandra Palace and seeing the large throngs around some of the layouts it made me think how unsuited to shows these small diorama's would be.  I like of think of them as a paper theatre, where a handful of viewers can be drawn into the scene to see the 'actors' moving into and off stage.  Though adding some red curtains either side the diorama might be a step too far

 

And thanks for your compliment and comments, they are much appreciated

[Focalplane]

My first experience with the diorama concept was when visiting the old Birmingham Museum of Science and Industry in the 1950s. I have been fascinated with them ever since. The ability to focus on detail is perfect for those of us who lack space. Building interiors are now more doable than ever due to the options for lighting, etc. I am planning to build a more detailed prototype engine shed for my next project which will have all the details you are putting into Oswestry. These are exciting times.

 

More thoughts on my early years in Oswestry. The line to Withchurch was not a Cambrian line, if I remember rightly and had LMS steam including the new Ivatt 2MT moguls. We also saw LMS locos pulling the Birkenhead-Wolverhampton trains through Gobowen, in fact my first "cop" on Gobowen station was a Jubilee. That would have been around 1957.

 

In Oswestry the main classes of motive power were the Manors, 43XX, 464XX and 2251. The Manors were always maintained in good condition. The Gobowen Rattler auto train typically had 1432 on one end rather than in the middle. It stopped at Park Hall Halt, the site of the RA camp.

[alanbuttler]

Hi Focalplane, I've seen your blog of the Midlands based shed complex, sounds like its going to be a great project to follow.  

 

Have you seen in the Heritage railway press that the Cambrian Heritage Railway's plans to reopen the line from Oswestry to Gobowen have had a boost in the last months, with land at Gobowen set aside for the platform and line.  In a few years I'm sure it will be possible again to jump on the Rattler if they have a visiting 14xx on loan!

 

http://www.shropshirestar.com/news/2013/12/19/housing-trust-moves-oswestry-to-rail-plans-step-closer/

[Simond]

I went to the Euromilitaire show in Folkestone for the first time last October - much of what these military modellers do is diorama - mostly not moving - and as I am sure you know, there is some utterly outstanding modelling.

 

They manage to show them off quite effectively, but perhaps the sheer number of models on show meant it was easier to do this than a typical railway show - it seemed to me that the Euromilitaire and the Folkestone club exhibition had attracted similar numbers of punters.

 

I think that my personal vote is for seeing the wheels turn however!

 

Best

Simon

[Focalplane]

Hi Focalplane, I've seen your blog of the Midlands based shed complex, sounds like its going to be a great project to follow.  

 

Have you seen in the Heritage railway press that the Cambrian Heritage Railway's plans to reopen the line from Oswestry to Gobowen have had a boost in the last months, with land at Gobowen set aside for the platform and line.  In a few years I'm sure it will be possible again to jump on the Rattler if they have a visiting 14xx on loan!

 

http://www.shropshirestar.com/news/2013/12/19/housing-trust-moves-oswestry-to-rail-plans-step-closer/

Yes, this is interesting news indeed! Whether an auto tank will be available is another story. They will always be one of my favorite Swindon products.

[Londontram]

I’ve been following this excellent thread with great interest and feel you’re defiantly taking the right path. When young and living at home I built a free lance model of a pre modernized Midland style shed with a round house with a 50’ turn table as the main building, this was around two walls of a room and was 20’ long with the round house in the corner of the two walls. It was set in the late 1940s to early 1950s and to give access to the shed I proposed that it was one of the many round houses that had lost their roof through war damage or just age and was waiting to be re-roofed so was open to allow the inside to be vied

        When moving into my own place it had to come down but I had the idea of keeping the round house as a stand alone sort of diorama come micro layout, open at the top and one end with the loco entrance at the back going straight into a fiddle yard so one could look into the shed and watch locos come and go.

               Alas another great idea that never came off but still feel it would have made an interesting subject with plenty of scope for lots of loco movements i.e. locos coming and going, dead engines being pushed into the shed – turned then shunted onto storage roads, stored old engine like the midland single or an old kirkly etc.

                                                              Keep up the good work regards Steve

[PaternosterRow]

My first experience with the diorama concept was when visiting the old Birmingham Museum of Science and Industry in the 1950s. I have been fascinated with them ever since. The ability to focus on detail is perfect for those of us who lack space. Building interiors are now more doable than ever due to the options for lighting, etc. I am planning to build a more detailed prototype engine shed for my next project which will have all the details you are putting into Oswestry. These are exciting times.

 

More thoughts on my early years in Oswestry. The line to Withchurch was not a Cambrian line, if I remember rightly and had LMS steam including the new Ivatt 2MT moguls. We also saw LMS locos pulling the Birkenhead-Wolverhampton trains through Gobowen, in fact my first "cop" on Gobowen station was a Jubilee. That would have been around 1957.

 

In Oswestry the main classes of motive power were the Manors, 43XX, 464XX and 2251. The Manors were always maintained in good condition. The Gobowen Rattler auto train typically had 1432 on one end rather than in the middle. It stopped at Park Hall Halt, the site of the RA camp.

 

Now that brings back plenty of memories.  I spent many an hour happily gazing at these models at the Old Birmingham Science & Industry Museum as a young lad - unfortunately, whilst wagging off games and RI lessons!  I particularly remember the model of the Gunsmith's factory and the large static railway layouts.  The Gunsmith model sat up on a first floor balcony that overlooked the preserved LMS Princess Coronation Class 6235 City of Birmingham.  I loved that place and was really disappointed when it was closed down in the mid nineties.  It obviously had a long lasting influence on me.  Thanks for the memory.