GWML Electification

[david.hill64]

At the risk of reopening the debate about whether or not the GWR masts are excessively dimensioned, I would make this offering of poles that support heavy compound catenary for trains operating at 186mph in an environment subject to frequent typhoons and strong earthquakes. Would the good burghers of Bath object to this I wonder?

 

[corneliuslundie]

It is interesting that we seem to have got through several generations of LED colour light signals already. The early ones I am sure were conversions of existing signal heads. And there were certainly problems with component failures in some designs, though not the LEDs themselves. But as someone who was associated with the lighting industry throughout his career, I am suspicious that LEDs are going to be the major solution to every problem they seem to be regarded as. There was a lot of misleading information published about them in the early days, and their life can be very variable depending both on quality of manufacture and installation conditions. But they are very efficient in cold weather!  I assume that the multi-lamp designs now in use in signals must have some kind of monitoring so that they show up as a failure when a certain number of lamps have failed. Published lives are of course based on statistical analysis and will not be guaranteed for individual lamps.

Jonathan

[Titan]

So why is a large amount of unused OHLE being sold off as scrap?

 

 

Politics most likely added to the fact the contract signed for probably has some BS within that does not allow reuse else where.

 

While it most likely could be used on a different project chances are contracts have already been signed for the materials and it would cost more in fines etc. To cancel rather than scrap perfectly good new materials. Gantries, masts and the bases that are piled into the ground are not items usually changed or renewed under maintenance, once up that is normally it until major redevelopment.

 

I would also imagine some of this is part of the equipment for Bath that has been redesigned to be more in keeping with the surrounding environment.

 

Most of OLE is made to order for specific locations.  You might be able to use some cantilever masts at a different locations, because if the mast is a bit tall it is not too much of a problem, you just end up with a bit extra sticking up above the cantilever itself. With many portals it is a different matter, the masts have to be a specific length at each location so that the boom is level - there will be different ground levels at each location, not to mention differences in wire heights. With the large variations possible from location to location you will be lucky if more than one or two masts are suitable. Similarly with boom lengths. Each one is specific to a location - number of tracks, track centers, different walkouts to avoid drainage, cable troughs etc. etc.

 

So whilst it is not so difficult finding somewhere else to use the small part steel work - tensioners, wire, jumpers, switches and so on, finding somewhere else to use the structures is somewhat more tricky...

[jim.snowdon]

Most of OLE is made to order for specific locations.  You might be able to use some cantilever masts at a different locations, because if the mast is a bit tall it is not too much of a problem, you just end up with a bit extra sticking up above the cantilever itself. With many portals it is a different matter, the masts have to be a specific length at each location so that the boom is level - there will be different ground levels at each location, not to mention differences in wire heights. With the large variations possible from location to location you will be lucky if more than one or two masts are suitable. Similarly with boom lengths. Each one is specific to a location - number of tracks, track centers, different walkouts to avoid drainage, cable troughs etc. etc.

 

So whilst it is not so difficult finding somewhere else to use the small part steel work - tensioners, wire, jumpers, switches and so on, finding somewhere else to use the structures is somewhat more tricky...

Although to judge by the masts that appeared through West Drayton, the ones for the portals and cantilevers were designed for a range of heights. The tops are provided with fastening points for a range of heights over a good 500mm, and there further scope for vertical adjustment by the settings of the stovepipes.

 

Jim

[Titan]

Although to judge by the masts that appeared through West Drayton, the ones for the portals and cantilevers were designed for a range of heights. The tops are provided with fastening points for a range of heights over a good 500mm, and there further scope for vertical adjustment by the settings of the stovepipes.

 

Jim

 

There are some that have a certain amount of scope for adjustment, but +/- 250mm does not give you very much to play with, especially when construction tolerance has to be allowed for. Longer stovepipes can be used if they are a bit tall, but care has to be taken with the loadings or they can get a bit whippy.

[The Stationmaster]

Most of OLE is made to order for specific locations.  You might be able to use some cantilever masts at a different locations, because if the mast is a bit tall it is not too much of a problem, you just end up with a bit extra sticking up above the cantilever itself. With many portals it is a different matter, the masts have to be a specific length at each location so that the boom is level - there will be different ground levels at each location, not to mention differences in wire heights. With the large variations possible from location to location you will be lucky if more than one or two masts are suitable. Similarly with boom lengths. Each one is specific to a location - number of tracks, track centers, different walkouts to avoid drainage, cable troughs etc. etc.

 

So whilst it is not so difficult finding somewhere else to use the small part steel work - tensioners, wire, jumpers, switches and so on, finding somewhere else to use the structures is somewhat more tricky...

 

So if the 'surplus' material includes masts that can only mean one of two things - either they were not supplied in accordance with the required spec or planned electrification work has been cancelled.  If the work has been can celled when the basic material to do t was in existence that surely merits further inquiry to establish exactly what the material was intended for?  (I am of course assuming that the specs against which the material was supplied were actually correct!)

[Mike Storey]

Most of OLE is made to order for specific locations.  You might be able to use some cantilever masts at a different locations, because if the mast is a bit tall it is not too much of a problem, you just end up with a bit extra sticking up above the cantilever itself. With many portals it is a different matter, the masts have to be a specific length at each location so that the boom is level - there will be different ground levels at each location, not to mention differences in wire heights. With the large variations possible from location to location you will be lucky if more than one or two masts are suitable. Similarly with boom lengths. Each one is specific to a location - number of tracks, track centers, different walkouts to avoid drainage, cable troughs etc. etc.

 

So whilst it is not so difficult finding somewhere else to use the small part steel work - tensioners, wire, jumpers, switches and so on, finding somewhere else to use the structures is somewhat more tricky...

 

Is that true of the F&F Series 1 masts - I thought one of the key efficiencies that had been introduced quite early into the scheme was the production of only three heights of mast, with the flexibility being a much greater range of height of fixings than was possible on Mark 3b?

 

If I have interpreted that correctly, there would then be a 1 in 3 chance of a mast being suitable for use elsewhere bar special circumstances, such as Bath.

[Titan]

Is that true of the F&F Series 1 masts - I thought one of the key efficiencies that had been introduced quite early into the scheme was the production of only three heights of mast, with the flexibility being a much greater range of height of fixings than was possible on Mark 3b?

 

If I have interpreted that correctly, there would then be a 1 in 3 chance of a mast being suitable for use elsewhere bar special circumstances, such as Bath.

 

Might have to check - been a little while since I worked on it and the memory is a bit foggy...

[Mike Storey]

Might have to check - been a little while since I worked on it and the memory is a bit foggy...

 

I very definitely know that problem, only too well!

[HillsideDepot]

I had a little excursion to the exhibition in Cheltenham today and as Stagecoach have managed to turn a nice 8 minute connection at Swindon into a 40 minute one I opted to drive. That though meant that I went via Hullavington where I noted all wiring in place over Kingsway Bridge (east of the old station). On my way back I made a diversion around the lanes and noted that the wires are in place across the viaduct west of the station (between the Up and Down Goods Loops). Driving further on towards Alderton and everything but the wires themselves are installed there.

 

Pictures I've seen elsewhere show that Swindon Panel 'Box has been demolished and there is much metalwork over the station area now, but possibly not wires, yet. 

 

Have any "switch on" dates been mooted for the next stage(s)? 

[Northroader]

The situation with wires through Swindon is that the up and down mains have continuous cabling, contact and catenary, now from west of Steventon to at least as far as Rushey Platt, west of Swindon. Some of the loops east of the station have got wires, but not so far the lines on either side of the up island platform. Also there’s quite a bit of the auto transformer line to go in around the Swindon area. The overhead from the M4 bridge west of Wootton Bassett to Hullavington has been done for several months.

[St. Simon]

Pictures I've seen elsewhere show that Swindon Panel 'Box has been demolished and there is much metalwork over the station area now, but possibly not wires, yet.

 

Have any "switch on" dates been mooted for the next stage(s)?

Hi,

 

As Northroader says some wires are through Swindon (as of a couple of weeks ago):

 

 

The panel box has been demolished, about three weeks ago I think.

 

In terms of extension of wires, as far as I’m aware at the moment, the wires all the way through to Cardiff will be live before Christmas. I have been given more specific dates, but as they don’t seem to be public knowledge yet, I can’t say anymore.

 

Simon

[The Stationmaster]

Is that true of the F&F Series 1 masts - I thought one of the key efficiencies that had been introduced quite early into the scheme was the production of only three heights of mast, with the flexibility being a much greater range of height of fixings than was possible on Mark 3b?

 

If I have interpreted that correctly, there would then be a 1 in 3 chance of a mast being suitable for use elsewhere bar special circumstances, such as Bath.

 

You might well have thought that.  I think you will find more than three different types of mast (varying mainly by height) between Reading (Scours Lane) and Didcot on the first section of GWML to be completed.  If you extend your area of interest eastwards  to, say, Twyford you can definitely add at least one more height of mast and probably two.  There are at least three, and now 4 (?%), types of boom used on full gantryy structures (plus the heavier type used at the end of catenary sections and the simple 'I' section girder used in some locations) and three types of cantilever (bracket) style structure plus, added last year, a third type of registration arm, and at least three different types of single line mast in several differing heights.  There are several different lengths of foundation tube pile before you allow for the shortening or extending of them which has had to be done to suit ground conditions at some sites plus they come in at least three different diameters although the largest doesn't need a different type of mast base because it is filled with concrete with securing bolts set into the concrete - very 1960s

 

But overall your conclusion about the suitability of masts for use elsewhere is probably correct although the exact odds may well vary from your estimate.   Oh and in the meanwhile a scrap drive really ought to include the various foundation tubes, and cut sections thereof, left lying around at the lineside but I will concede that the ones that have been sunk but have never had anything erected on them could well prove expensive to dig out and add to the scrap pile.  If Don Heath had been the Project Manager on this scheme he'd have suffered sever apoplexy a long time back - but then he very obviously wasn't the PM.

[dibber25]

You might well have thought that.  I think you will find more than three different types of mast (varying mainly by height) between Reading (Scours Lane) and Didcot on the first section of GWML to be completed.  If you extend your area of interest eastwards  to, say, Twyford you can definitely add at least one more height of mast and probably two.  There are at least three, and now 4 (?%), types of boom used on full gantryy structures (plus the heavier type used at the end of catenary sections and the simple 'I' section girder used in some locations) and three types of cantilever (bracket) style structure plus, added last year, a third type of registration arm, and at least three different types of single line mast in several differing heights.  There are several different lengths of foundation tube pile before you allow for the shortening or extending of them which has had to be done to suit ground conditions at some sites plus they come in at least three different diameters although the largest doesn't need a different type of mast base because it is filled with concrete with securing bolts set into the concrete - very 1960s

 

But overall your conclusion about the suitability of masts for use elsewhere is probably correct although the exact odds may well vary from your estimate.   Oh and in the meanwhile a scrap drive really ought to include the various foundation tubes, and cut sections thereof, left lying around at the lineside but I will concede that the ones that have been sunk but have never had anything erected on them could well prove expensive to dig out and add to the scrap pile.  If Don Heath had been the Project Manager on this scheme he'd have suffered sever apoplexy a long time back - but then he very obviously wasn't the PM.

 

In short it sounds like a mess, and it certainly looks like it. What's that sound? Oh, it's just Brunel spinning.... (CJL)

[Pandora]

Oh well , London to Swindon 75 miles, Swindon to Cardiff, the same,   the mid-point is in sight

[Coryton]

Oh well , London to Swindon 75 miles, Swindon to Cardiff, the same,   the mid-point is in sight

 

And they've already done one of the really tricky bits (Severn Tunnel).

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Minus the few yards at you know where.....

[Platform 1]

At least the GWML won't be running these after wiring (plenty of different gantry types here)...   

[SouthernMafia]

Noted today (and apologies if already posted) wires up through Steventon. Under the bridge and then a very dramatic incline to get over the crossing.

[Geoff Endacott]

According to the team on the Network Rail stand at Trainwest, Swindon should go live next month.

 

The target for Chippenham is December, but there is an awful lot of work to be done before that.

 

Geoff Endacott

[jim.snowdon]

According to the team on the Network Rail stand at Trainwest, Swindon should go live next month.

 

The target for Chippenham is December, but there is an awful lot of work to be done before that.

 

Geoff Endacott

All a long way behind the original target of the end of 2017, and now with substantial sections missing. It's a project that has set back the future of railway electrification in the UK quite a long way.

 

Jim

[Oakydoke]

......wires up through Steventon. Under the bridge and then a very dramatic incline to get over the crossing.

Complete with a 40 mph PSR on electrickery.

[St. Simon]

Complete with a 40 mph PSR on electrickery.

60mph...

 

Simon

[Northroader]

7 o’clock this morning in Swindon it was being announced that there would be delays on the way up because of overhead wire damage somewhere between Didcot and Maidenhead, but everything seemed to be functioning when we went through.

[royaloak]

7 o’clock this morning in Swindon it was being announced that there would be delays on the way up because of overhead wire damage somewhere between Didcot and Maidenhead, but everything seemed to be functioning when we went through.

It wasnt when I went through at 0900 and it most definitely wasnt when I tried to leave PAD at 1030, although they did get trains running again quite quickly and service recovery went very well indeed, although they have had a lot of practice.